Wheels - Discuss Amongst Yourselves

[Yojimbo_]

Hello All

I, like many others around here, am trying to decide if I should upgrade my wheels. I currently have 32 spoke Mavic 195 (at least, I think that's what they are) purchased 8 or so years ago. I've noticed there are lots of high tech flashy looking wheels around, and I'm thinking of splashing out.

But before I do, I would like to be reasonably convinced that new wheels would be a useful upgrade. By useful, I mean I could get more speed for the same power output. This would presumably come because of lighter wheel weight, and less friction from fewer spokes and more aerodynamic shape.

So....I'm interested in your personal experiences, your views re a good set of wheels, and any hard scientific evidence to support the widely held view that lighter wheels with fewer spokes have a significant benefit.

 

[BikingBrian]

Wheels, generally speaking, are regarded as the best upgrade you can make. Having said that, however, whether lighter wheels make a significant difference is a contentious issue. If you start a thread like this, I'm sure you will have all sorts of opinions, with evidence for and against, probably with many an arguement which will eventually devolve into name-calling at some point. So let's not go there...
From my personal experience, with wheels that are *significantly* lighter than my training wheels, yes, I have felt them to handle differently, especially on very steep climbs (of which there are many here in Japan). However, this could also be because lighter wheels tend to have fewer spokes, and so tend to be tensioned quite high, which may make them feel faster.
Rather than lighter wheels, I think you would probably see more results from getting a more aero wheel, unless you live and compete someplace where it is extremely hilly. Also, I have come to the conclusion recently that in many cases, better value can be had by having a wheelset built up custom than buying factory wheels. Factory wheels tend to have things like proprietary spokes, hidden nipples, and very low spoke counts, all of which make serviceability a problem for most of us. Additionally, a good number of factory wheels seem to be lightweight because of weight savings at the hub, rather than the rim. (Whether this is important or not is another issue altogether) So, sorry, no scientific analyses here, and I don't purport to make any, but as one rider's experience, maybe a few things to help you make a decision.

By the way, I see from your username that you are perhaps a Kurosawa fan? Yojimbo is one of my favorites.

 

[Walrus]

Check out this thread http://www.cycling.net.au/t230565-.html which covers this topic fairly extensively.

By the way, your last sentence will create some conjecture.

As for my opinion, I look at upgrades for weight reduction as a % of my weight + the bike weight. When you look at it that way, a 500g saving ain't that much. e.g I weigh 75kg and my bike weighs 9kg, hence a total of 84kg. If I buy knew wheels and drop 500g from that total weight, then I've saved 0.59%. Sure there will be some advantage in having a better hub, less resistance etc (see the link above for more on this stuff), but it certainly isn't "significant" unless you're a pro trying to shave seconds off a 1km time trial. Having said that, I'm a sucker for new bike technology and I'm also looking at new wheels at the moment.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Wheels, generally speaking, are regarded as the best upgrade you can make. Having said that, however, whether lighter wheels make a significant difference is a contentious issue. If you start a thread like this, I'm sure you will have all sorts of opinions, with evidence for and against, probably with many an arguement which will eventually devolve into name-calling at some point. So let's not go there...
From my personal experience, with wheels that are *significantly* lighter than my training wheels, yes, I have felt them to handle differently, especially on very steep climbs (of which there are many here in Japan). However, this could also be because lighter wheels tend to have fewer spokes, and so tend to be tensioned quite high, which may make them feel faster.
Rather than lighter wheels, I think you would probably see more results from getting a more aero wheel, unless you live and compete someplace where it is extremely hilly. Also, I have come to the conclusion recently that in many cases, better value can be had by having a wheelset built up custom than buying factory wheels. Factory wheels tend to have things like proprietary spokes, hidden nipples, and very low spoke counts, all of which make serviceability a problem for most of us. Additionally, a good number of factory wheels seem to be lightweight because of weight savings at the hub, rather than the rim. (Whether this is important or not is another issue altogether) So, sorry, no scientific analyses here, and I don't purport to make any, but as one rider's experience, maybe a few things to help you make a decision.

By the way, I see from your username that you are perhaps a Kurosawa fan? Yojimbo is one of my favorites.

Re your last paragraph....yes I am a Kurosawa fan. I believe I am the original Yojimbo on the internet, but now there are lots and lots of them around because of some stupid Japanese anime thing (or computer game or something). Yojimbo is one of my favourite movies.

Oh....and by the way.....thanks for your response.

 

[Yojimbo_]

Check out this thread http://www.cycling.net.au/t230565-.html which covers this topic fairly extensively.

By the way, your last sentence will create some conjecture.

As for my opinion, I look at upgrades for weight reduction as a % of my weight + the bike weight. When you look at it that way, a 500g saving ain't that much. e.g I weigh 75kg and my bike weighs 9kg, hence a total of 84kg. If I buy knew wheels and drop 500g from that total weight, then I've saved 0.59%. Sure there will be some advantage in having a better hub, less resistance etc (see the link above for more on this stuff), but it certainly isn't "significant" unless you're a pro trying to shave seconds off a 1km time trial. Having said that, I'm a sucker for new bike technology and I'm also looking at new wheels at the moment.

Hi...re your comment on weight savings, that's exactly how I think about it; however, this thinking is for a static component. What I don't know is how effective weight savings are for a rotating piece of machinery, such as a wheel. Does less weight and fewer spokes actually do anything? That's why I'm interested in scientific fact.

This would be really easy to test for if the manufacturer's wanted to do so. Since they all aren't touting lab tests to support the benefits of their latest designs, I can only presume they either haven't conducted any tests, or having done so, haven't found any significant benefit. Which leads me back as to why I asked for hard scientific data.....if there are any.

Thanks for your response.

 

[artmichalek]

Hi...re your comment on weight savings, that's exactly how I think about it; however, this thinking is for a static component. What I don't know is how effective weight savings are for a rotating piece of machinery, such as a wheel. Does less weight and fewer spokes actually do anything? That's why I'm interested in scientific fact.

Where's Wilmar on this one? If you're accelerating fast enough for the small change in rotating mass to have an effect, you're probably going to snap your frame. The reduced spoke count will reduce drag a little bit, but much like the weight savings, it's a very small percentage of the total amount of drag. A cheap set of aero bars will have more practical effect on drag than even the most expensive wheel upgrade.

 

[domaindomain]

On the same bike I have tried Kysirum SLs with Campag record sprockets and some Open 4CD Ceramics on Campag record - both with Veloflex Black tyres - on the same route on a few occcasions.

The difference in time is negligible but the kysiriums sure feel better and that is enough to make me prefer them.

Cheers

 

[Cyclist14]

I really like the Rolf Vector Pro's ( yes, I know there outdated) and the more modern Rolf Vigor RS's ( I should hopefully grab a pair of these next year).

 

[Wurm]

Get a new set of Campy wheels - very excellent. I'll ride my Zonda's until they give up the ghost.