Wheels for heavy riders

[garage sale GT]

What do you weigh?

220.

I am concerned that the metal I deformed when I laced up the wheel the first time may lead to a crack because it's been stressed and hardened and forms a channel in the flange that can concentrate stress.

I don't know what Alfeng is talking about but the fact that radially laced spoke elbows are free to rotate is actually the whole point. I want the steeper, high tension drive side spokes to be spared from drive torque, which can be borne by the non-drive side where the tension is lower.

 

[alfeng]

220.

I am concerned that the metal I deformed when I laced up the wheel the first time may lead to a crack because it's been stressed and hardened and forms a channel in the flange that can concentrate stress.

I don't know what Alfeng is talking about but the fact that radially laced spoke elbows are free to rotate is actually the whole point. I want the steeper, high tension drive side spokes to be spared from drive torque, which can be borne by the non-drive side where the tension is lower.

Am 'I' supposed to respond to that remark?

Regardless, I suppose there is a serious point of difference when it comes to what a rider should want from a wheel (either, front or back) and/or how it should therefore be -- or, have been -- built ...

You know, I think I asked you once before -- just how slowly are you riding AND how slow a speed are your turns?

If you're riding at under 12MPH & turning at speeds below 6MPH, I guess it almost doesn't matter how you build your wheels ...

A new hub laced the way you suggest would fail as readily (or, not) as the one you currently have, IMO.

 

[bccurran]

IIRC Bontrager don't do a weight limit too, or so my LBS told me once when I was whinging 'bout wheels failing.

Performance Forte wheels. Inexpensive and yet to be busted by this 240 pound bum. (Sourced from Alex wheels according to the local PBS mechanic). Another source: Neuvation M28 Aero. Yes, that's right, aero. Stiff, strong and cool looking. Value for money. Well built.

 

[swampy1970]

220.

I am concerned that the metal I deformed when I laced up the wheel the first time may lead to a crack because it's been stressed and hardened and forms a channel in the flange that can concentrate stress.

I don't know what Alfeng is talking about but the fact that radially laced spoke elbows are free to rotate is actually the whole point. I want the steeper, high tension drive side spokes to be spared from drive torque, which can be borne by the non-drive side where the tension is lower.

Go read the Jobst Brandt's the bicycle wheel and you'll find where you're going wrong with your assumptions about how you want a wheel to work.

But my question for you is: What exactly are you trying to get from radially spoking the back wheel instead of building it in a traditional 3x pattern?

 

[garage sale GT]

Go read the Jobst Brandt's the bicycle wheel and you'll find where you're going wrong with your assumptions about how you want a wheel to work.

But my question for you is: What exactly are you trying to get from radially spoking the back wheel instead of building it in a traditional 3x pattern?

You radially spoke the DRIVE SIDE so it doesn't take any drive torque. You let the lower tensioned nondrive side spokes take the drive torque (by lacing them 3 or 4x).

 

[dhk2]

You radially spoke the DRIVE SIDE so it doesn't take any drive torque. You let the lower tensioned nondrive side spokes take the drive torque (by lacing them 3 or 4x).

GT, that's an interesting idea. Seems logical to me also that reducing peak loads on the high tension driveside would lead to longer life for the spokes, nipples and rim.

OTOH, I can't help thinking that builders haven't thought of it and tried it before in the last 100 years of building spoked bicycle wheels. Perhaps the drive loads are too small to really make a difference. But hey, with all the innovative stuff marketed for wheelsets today, why not?

 

[garage sale GT]

GT, that's an interesting idea. Seems logical to me also that reducing peak loads on the high tension driveside would lead to longer life for the spokes, nipples and rim.

OTOH, I can't help thinking that builders haven't thought of it and tried it before in the last 100 years of building spoked bicycle wheels. Perhaps the drive loads are too small to really make a difference. But hey, with all the innovative stuff marketed for wheelsets today, why not?

My WH-R550's are done that way from Shimano, therefore the idea has merit even if I am mistaken about the nature of said merit.

I used to be heavily into 3 speeds before my financial situation improved, and on my 3 speed the trailing spokes started to fail on both sides after about three years of heavy use, despite the fact that it had a strong 36-spoke, 559mm wheel. It was a coaster brake wheel and the brake torque must have really relaxed the trailing spokes. After about four went, I redid the wheel with new spokes.

The real question, though, is: will the dents from previous 3X spoking make a nice place for a crack to start?

I'd get some of those Neuvations b/c they're on sale, but the idea was to lace these hubs to some old school, not very aero, new old stock tubular rims so I could try tubulars.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I have a set of Ultegra 36h hubs which I purchased new. Do you guys know if it is safe to change the lacing pattern? I had the drive side laced 3x but now want to change it to radial.

I already put some tension on the spokes so they deformed the flange around the hole a little(left an imprint of a spoke in a 3x direction). Can this lead to a stress concentrator which will make the flange crack? I didn't ride the wheel but did tension it.

Drive side to radial? Not a good idea. You are asking for a hub failure.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

220.

I am concerned that the metal I deformed when I laced up the wheel the first time may lead to a crack because it's been stressed and hardened and forms a channel in the flange that can concentrate stress.

I don't know what Alfeng is talking about but the fact that radially laced spoke elbows are free to rotate is actually the whole point. I want the steeper, high tension drive side spokes to be spared from drive torque, which can be borne by the non-drive side where the tension is lower.

I have seen 2 hubs laced radial driveside and they were twisted so much that the spoke holes on the left and right lined up rather than be lined up between on each side. The driveside spokes, being a higher tension will kill that hub if all are 'pulling' spokes.

 

[garage sale GT]

I have seen 2 hubs laced radial driveside and they were twisted so much that the spoke holes on the left and right lined up rather than be lined up between on each side. The driveside spokes, being a higher tension will kill that hub if all are 'pulling' spokes.

Those two hubs may have been for paired spokes. Also, I just went to Nashbar.com and their Ksyriums and FSAs were driveside radial laced while their Vueltas were not and their Eastons were nondrive radial.

Thanks for the theories guys but does anyone have any experience relacing a hub to a different pattern? Did the spoke dents lead to cracking?

 

[swampy1970]

My WH-R550's are done that way from Shimano, therefore the idea has merit even if I am mistaken about the nature of said merit.

I used to be heavily into 3 speeds before my financial situation improved, and on my 3 speed the trailing spokes started to fail on both sides after about three years of heavy use, despite the fact that it had a strong 36-spoke, 559mm wheel. It was a coaster brake wheel and the brake torque must have really relaxed the trailing spokes. After about four went, I redid the wheel with new spokes.

The real question, though, is: will the dents from previous 3X spoking make a nice place for a crack to start?

I'd get some of those Neuvations b/c they're on sale, but the idea was to lace these hubs to some old school, not very aero, new old stock tubular rims so I could try tubulars.

Will the dents from a previous wheel build make a nice place for a crack to start? No.

Notice that there's only one wheel in the current Shimano lineup that features radial drive side spokes and that pair ain't in the Dura Ace lineup. If there was an advantage to such a spoke pattern it'd be on their top of the line product and used by the Pros... But, it's on the one set of wheels that has rims that weigh as much as my car and spokes that could double as bridge supports. Normal rims and spokes don't have this inherant strength, which is why a radial drive side spoking pattern on a normal wheel ain't a good idea. If you want to spread the load a little more evenly, get a velocity aerohead OC rear rim.

 

[garage sale GT]

Will the dents from a previous wheel build make a nice place for a crack to start? No.

Notice that there's only one wheel in the current Shimano lineup that features radial drive side spokes and that pair ain't in the Dura Ace lineup. If there was an advantage to such a spoke pattern it'd be on their top of the line product and used by the Pros... But, it's on the one set of wheels that has rims that weigh as much as my car and spokes that could double as bridge supports. Normal rims and spokes don't have this inherant strength, which is why a radial drive side spoking pattern on a normal wheel ain't a good idea. If you want to spread the load a little more evenly, get a velocity aerohead OC rear rim.

May I ask how much experience you have relacing wheels to a different pattern?

The D/A's now incorporate an offset rim design which serves to even out the tension on the spokes in a different way.

Their Ultegra level wheelset has driveside radial lacing.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Those two hubs may have been for paired spokes. Also, I just went to Nashbar.com and their Ksyriums and FSAs were driveside radial laced while their Vueltas were not and their Eastons were nondrive radial.

Thanks for the theories guys but does anyone have any experience relacing a hub to a different pattern? Did the spoke dents lead to cracking?

No, those 2 hubs were shimano DA.

Those that are radial driveside laced like those mentioned and some shimano are because the big nipple or attach point at the hub for the spoke is so big and fat, you wouldn't have cogset clearance. SO, radial driveside but the hub shells are MUCH beefier than a run of the mill road or MTB hub, which is pretty thin in the middle.

As for your question, for high tension, like RH rear and front, if you lace either opposite pull or cross after radial or vice versa, you run the risk of pulling a section out of the hub flange. Seen it more than once.

 

[swampy1970]

Thanks for the theories guys but does anyone have any experience relacing a hub to a different pattern? Did the spoke dents lead to cracking?

I do and it didn't.

Thankyou and goodnight...

 

[garage sale GT]

I have had enough of hearing my spokes snap on my Ksyrium SSCs. I bought them because I thought they were robust. I am loking for affordable wheels that will survive many miles beneath a fat boy.
Anybody have any suggestions?

Just wanted to throw this out even though I am sure the OP has his wheels by now.

Shimano hubs are stronger than many knockoffs because the RH cup is further outboard. Sheldon Brown says the technology is protected by a patent. I have only compared them to a Velocity and a Joytech freehub but the bearings are clearly more outboard on the genuine Shimano. The Velocity is holding up with hard road/trail use but I bent the axle on the Joytech.