Wheels For Large Rider

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Bobmcb, Mar 14, 2003.

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  1. Bobmcb

    Bobmcb Guest

    I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer, but put
    in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles per year for the last five years. My problem is that
    I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for a while. Now
    I am starting to break the nipples on the SPOX wheels. I am not looking for the lightest, most aero,
    wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I don't mind doing maintenance
    before/after rides, but don't want to have to mess with the wheels during the ride.

    I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my LBS,
    and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.
     
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  2. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my LBS,
    >and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.

    I am just about your size and ride a variety of wheels. Wheels for guys like us need to built
    properly. This means not only are they straight and true but also that they properly tensioned and
    properly stress relieved.

    There are several options here, find a good local shop that knows how to build a good wheel, buy
    "The Bicycle Wheel" and learn how to build your own wheel, or you can buy wheels via internet or
    mail order from someone who does know who to build a good wheel.

    Sheldon Brown, A. Muzi, and Peter V. are some of the top notch wheel builders who frequent
    this group.

    I suggestion cruising over to www.sheldonbrown.com and looking around. He has information on just
    about anything you might want to know about bicycles and cycling including instruction about how to
    build your own wheels.

    Jon Isaacs
     
  3. Marnu

    Marnu Guest

    >I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer, but put
    >in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles per year for the last five years. My problem is that
    >I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for a while.
    >Now I am starting to break the nipples on the SPOX wheels. I am not looking for the lightest, most
    >aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I don't mind doing
    >maintenance before/after rides, but don't want to have to mess with the wheels during the ride.
    >
    >I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my LBS,
    >and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.
    >

    I am about your weight, but a little taller (6'8"). I've had great, long lasting wheels built by
    Colorado Cyclist. Definitely go with 36 spokes. -- Cliff Shaw
     
  4. Stan Cox

    Stan Cox Guest

    Hi I'm 14 stoneish (91Kg 195Lb ish) and wreck kit like you wouldnt believe, its the only thing I
    have in common with Sean Yates apart from coming from the same area. My good local wheelbuilder (who
    btw works in a shop I wouldnt use for anything else)insisted on building my last set of wheels with
    Sapim strong spokes at the back and so far so good. Find a good wheelbuilder make sure he knows what
    you need and listen to his advice.

    Stan Cox

    "bobmcb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels.
    I
    > am not a racer, but put in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles
    per
    > year for the last five years. My problem is that I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to
    > Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for a while. Now I am starting to break the nipples on the
    > SPOX wheels. I am not
    looking
    > for the lightest, most aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I
    > don't mind doing maintenance before/after rides,
    but
    > don't want to have to mess with the wheels during the ride.
    >
    > I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my
    > LBS, and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.
     
  5. bob-<< I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer,
    but put in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles per year for the last five years. My problem
    is that I break spokes.

    Poor build using inappropriate components for you-

    << I am not looking for the lightest, most aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily
    break spokes.

    DA/Ultegra or Record/Chorus/Centaur hubs, mavic CXP-33, CXP-22 or Velocity Deep V rims, 36 hole both
    ends, 14/15 spokes, 3 cross, brass nipps, built well...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > bob-<< I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer,
    > but put in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles
    per
    > year for the last five years. My problem is that I break spokes.
    >
    > Poor build using inappropriate components for you-
    >
    > << I am not looking for the lightest, most aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily
    > break spokes.
    >
    > DA/Ultegra or Record/Chorus/Centaur hubs, mavic CXP-33, CXP-22 or Velocity
    Deep
    > V rims, 36 hole both ends, 14/15 spokes, 3 cross, brass nipps, built
    well...
    >

    That last one is so important. You can have the most durable components, but if the person building
    the wheels does a crummy job, then you have crummy wheels.

    I've had both...

    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "bobmcb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer, but
    > put in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles per year for the last five years. My problem
    > is that I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for
    > a while. Now I am starting to break the nipples on the SPOX wheels. I am not looking for the
    > lightest, most aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I don't
    > mind doing maintenance before/after rides, but don't want to have to mess with the wheels during
    > the ride.
    >
    > I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my
    > LBS, and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.

    Get some generic, factory built wheels and tension and stress relieve them yourself, it's not
    hard. Wheels like Open Pro, Ultegra, DT, are about $200 a set, and are widely available (for
    example). The rims are kind of a rip, but popular. The how to's are in the FAQ. It's pretty much
    just knowing how to true a wheel, a very useful skill. You don't need anything for tools other
    than a $5 spoke wrench.
     
  8. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >I am about your weight, but a little taller (6'8"). I've had great, long lasting wheels built by
    >Colorado Cyclist. Definitely go with 36 spokes.

    Do you have any problem getting your saddle far enough back? I'm only 6'5" but it's a recurring
    challenge.
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  9. Bobmcb

    Bobmcb Guest

    I know how to true a wheel, and to release tension. I am more concerned about starting with the best
    materials for my size. "Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "bobmcb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new
    wheels. I
    > > am not a racer, but put in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles
    per
    > > year for the last five years. My problem is that I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to
    > > Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for a
    while.
    > > Now I am starting to break the nipples on the SPOX wheels. I am not
    looking
    > > for the lightest, most aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I
    > > don't mind doing maintenance before/after rides,
    but
    > > don't want to have to mess with the wheels during the ride.
    > >
    > > I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my
    > > LBS, and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.
    >
    > Get some generic, factory built wheels and tension and stress relieve them yourself, it's not
    > hard. Wheels like Open Pro, Ultegra, DT, are about $200
    a
    > set, and are widely available (for example). The rims are kind of a rip,
    but
    > popular. The how to's are in the FAQ. It's pretty much just knowing how to true a wheel, a very
    > useful skill. You don't need anything for tools other than a $5 spoke wrench.
    >
     
  10. Thosj

    Thosj Guest

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 01:53:44 GMT, "bobmcb" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I am a large, 6' 1" - 230 lbs., rider and it is time for some new wheels. I am not a racer, but put
    >in a lot of miles. I have averaged 3,000 miles per year for the last five years. My problem is that
    >I break spokes. A few years ago I switched to Spinergy SPOX wheels, and they worked for a while.
    >Now I am starting to break the nipples on the SPOX wheels. I am not looking for the lightest, most
    >aero, wheels, but rather something that will not easily break spokes. I don't mind doing
    >maintenance before/after rides, but don't want to have to mess with the wheels during the ride.
    >
    >I am looking for advice on new wheels. Should like be looking for a pre-built set, or go to my LBS,
    >and have them build me a set. Any suggestions would be great.
    >

    The secret's in the build!! I weigh 240 myself and have been riding for 25 years. My past is
    littered with broken spokes! I have way less trouble lately. A. Muzi convinced me while standing
    in his shop that I could build as good a wheel as him, it'd just take me longer, and he was right.
    I use a tensiometer and dial indicator, which he spurns, but I don't have the number of wheels
    under my belt!!

    I go for very even tension, and the right tension, of course, using proper 'stuff'. I currently ride
    CXP-33's with 14/15's and brass nipples. I have one set of 28/32 and one set of 32/36, and both are
    seasons old. I ride 5000/7000 miles per year.

    If I break a spoke, and it's always non-drive side, I write it off as chance. If a second one
    breaks, out they come and I rebuild with new spokes.

    All this to encourage you that wheels for you are possible. I've just found it's better to learn/do
    it yourself, as the LBS will change, and I've not found one in years, outside A. Muzi who is 120
    miles away, who can actually build one better than me!! I was paying the LBS to build one, then
    taking it home and completely retensioning it. Then Andy said basically, any dummy can lace one up,
    you're already DOING the hard part, and after thinking about that for 2 seconds, I deduced he was
    right! I'm now happily riding my own wheels, including a Santana tandem.

    Buy some good built ones and start learning how to maintain them at even tension. Soon you'll be a
    happy guy, just riding worry free, the real goal!!
     
  11. Jose Rizal

    Jose Rizal Guest

    ThosJ:

    >
    > I go for very even tension, and the right tension, of course, using proper 'stuff'. I currently
    > ride CXP-33's with 14/15's and brass nipples. I have one set of 28/32 and one set of 32/36, and
    > both are seasons old. I ride 5000/7000 miles per year.

    How even is your "very even"? I have a hard time getting less than about 20 kgf (Park Tensiometer)
    variation on 32 spokes using 14/15 DTs on my current Mavic D521 26" rims. The rims themselves don't
    exhibit deformations that I can see prior to being laced.
     
  12. thosj-<< If I break a spoke, and it's always non-drive side, I write it off as chance. If a second
    one breaks, out they come and I rebuild with new spokes.

    But spokes aren't breaking because of the spokes but irregular tension around the wheel perhaps by a
    deformed rim..

    if ya break a lot of spokes, replace the rim, not the spokes.and build well...

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  13. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "bobmcb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I know how to true a wheel, and to release tension. I am more concerned about starting with the
    > best materials for my size.

    Spokes break from metal fatigue, which is a result of residual manufacturing stresses left in the
    spokes. This understanding has been a major contribution from Jobst Brandt (see his book, &/or the
    FAQ). Stress relieving virtually eliminates the problem of broken spokes. I'm 230, and don't break
    spokes, either on or off-road. I stress relieve all my wheels and then tension and true them once,
    that's about it. It's not hard, and requires no tools other than a spoke wrench.
     
  14. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "ThosJ" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    >
    > If I break a spoke, and it's always non-drive side, I write it off as chance. If a second one
    > breaks, out they come and I rebuild with new spokes.

    Stress relieve them and eliminate the problem the easy way.
     
  15. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Well, it's kind of a balance between getting the saddle far enough back and the handlebar far
    >enough foreward. I haven't had a problem achieving a comfortable position, but I am mostly leg (38
    >inseam) with frames in the 66 to 68 cm. range depending on how you measure.

    In my MTB, I'm doing Ok with a setback seatpost and the saddle all the way back
    - but it leaves the front end really light.
    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  16. Thosj

    Thosj Guest

    On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:12:00 GMT, Jose Rizal <[email protected]_._> wrote:

    >ThosJ:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> I go for very even tension, and the right tension, of course, using proper 'stuff'. I currently
    >> ride CXP-33's with 14/15's and brass nipples. I have one set of 28/32 and one set of 32/36, and
    >> both are seasons old. I ride 5000/7000 miles per year.
    >
    >How even is your "very even"? I have a hard time getting less than about 20 kgf (Park Tensiometer)
    >variation on 32 spokes using 14/15 DTs on my current Mavic D521 26" rims. The rims themselves don't
    >exhibit deformations that I can see prior to being laced.

    I go for 5 on my Wheelsmith tensiometer, whatever that translates to. It reads like 60 for 100 kg on
    14/15, if I remember. Sometimes it's hard to stay inside 5, but usually I can do it. Just takes
    patience. What I do, on rear, is go for even tension on the drive side and don't even put the tensio
    on the none drive side, just use that to pull 'er around straight.
     
  17. Appkiller

    Appkiller Guest

    CXP-33 36 three cross 14/15/14 spokes. Or substitute Velocity Deep V's or Mavic MA-3's, Bontrager
    Fairlanes, or anything 36 hole that you like.

    IMO.

    App
     
  18. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, ThosJ <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:12:00 GMT, Jose Rizal <[email protected]_._> wrote:
    >
    > >ThosJ:
    > >> I go for very even tension, and the right tension, of course, using proper 'stuff'. I currently
    > >> ride CXP-33's with 14/15's and brass nipples. I have one set of 28/32 and one set of 32/36, and
    > >> both are seasons old. I ride 5000/7000 miles per year.
    > >
    > >How even is your "very even"? I have a hard time getting less than about 20 kgf (Park
    > >Tensiometer) variation on 32 spokes using
    > >14/15 DTs on my current Mavic D521 26" rims. The rims themselves don't exhibit deformations that
    > > I can see prior to being laced.

    Pluck the spokes and listen to the tone. It's as simple as that. You can hear much smaller
    differences in tension (higher tones being tighter) than you can measure with most of the
    tensiometers available.

    > I go for 5 on my Wheelsmith tensiometer, whatever that translates to. It reads like 60 for 100 kg
    > on 14/15, if I remember. Sometimes it's hard to stay inside 5, but usually I can do it. Just takes
    > patience. What I do, on rear, is go for even tension on the drive side and don't even put the
    > tensio on the none drive side, just use that to pull 'er around straight.

    The Wheelsmth tensiometer (I also have one) is useless without the calibration table. Even with the
    calibration table it may be of little use in making fine gradations in tension. The tensiometer must
    be carefully zeroed out; I do this with a free spoke identical to the ones in the wheel placed in
    the device. I'm not sure if this makes it any more accurate, but it's an extension of a habit I
    picked up years ago in chem lab classes.
     
  19. Jose Rizal

    Jose Rizal Guest

    Tim McNamara:

    > > On Sun, 16 Mar 2003 17:12:00 GMT, Jose Rizal <[email protected]_._> wrote:
    > >
    > > >ThosJ:
    > > >> I go for very even tension, and the right tension, of course, using proper 'stuff'. I
    > > >> currently ride CXP-33's with 14/15's and brass nipples. I have one set of 28/32 and one set
    > > >> of 32/36, and both are seasons old. I ride 5000/7000 miles per year.
    > > >
    > > >How even is your "very even"? I have a hard time getting less than about 20 kgf (Park
    > > >Tensiometer) variation on 32 spokes using
    > > >14/15 DTs on my current Mavic D521 26" rims. The rims themselves don't exhibit deformations
    > > > that I can see prior to being laced.
    >
    > Pluck the spokes and listen to the tone. It's as simple as that. You can hear much smaller
    > differences in tension (higher tones being tighter) than you can measure with most of the
    > tensiometers available.

    I don't think it matters how I measure the tension on spokes, getting them truly even while
    maintaining trueness and roundness is the problem. The tensiometer quantifies the relative
    differences, while tones are quite subjective in terms of gauging how big the differences are. A
    difference of about 5 kgf in tension according to tensiometers (both Park and Wheelsmith) between
    two spokes results in a noticeable difference in tone. However, one can argue that this difference
    may be trivial when knowing that spokes in the wheel have an average tension of 120kgf, while
    relying on tones only may give the impression of significant difference.
     
  20. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Jose Rizal <[email protected]_._> wrote:

    > Tim McNamara:

    > > Pluck the spokes and listen to the tone. It's as simple as that. You can hear much smaller
    > > differences in tension (higher tones being tighter) than you can measure with most of the
    > > tensiometers available.
    >
    > I don't think it matters how I measure the tension on spokes, getting them truly even while
    > maintaining trueness and roundness is the problem.

    Right. Plucking the spokes is the best way to judge *relative* tension, which is exactly what you
    are talking about here. At small differences, the error of measurement of the tensiometer may be
    greater than the differences in spoke tension.

    If the rim is not perfectly round and true to begin with (and it isn't) you're not going to get
    perfectly even spoke tension- specially at the rim joint.

    > The tensiometer quantifies the relative differences, while tones are quite subjective in terms of
    > gauging how big the differences are.

    Quantification of the differences is irrelevant to your purpose. You're making this more complicated
    than necessary.

    You only need one spoke at your desired tension- I designate one of the spokes next to the valve
    hole as a "master spoke" for checking tension. Obviously you'll have to approach this tension
    gradually and recheck it occasionally during the truing process. Bring the plucked tones of the rest
    of the spokes to match as described in _The Bicycle Wheel_. Then do your stress relieving,
    retensioning and final truing.

    Using tones is much, much faster than using the tensiometer for the purpose of checking for even
    tension, and is probably more sensitive and more reliable. I only use the tensiometer to check the
    tension of one spoke; for the rest I use tones.

    > A difference of about 5 kgf in tension according to tensiometers (both Park and Wheelsmith)
    > between two spokes results in a noticeable difference in tone. However, one can argue that this
    > difference may be trivial when knowing that spokes in the wheel have an average tension of 120kgf,
    > while relying on tones only may give the impression of significant difference.

    Significant difference is what you need to know, not kgf down to decimal places. You'll get a more
    reliable indication of significant differences in spoke tension from plucking the spokes than from
    using a tensiometer such as the Wheelsmith (which I have and use, by the way, for establishing the
    tension of the "master spoke." It's not perfectly accurate by any means at measuring tension- you
    can find a discussion of why this is the case, in rec.bikes.tech via Google- but it's close enough
    for my purposes).
     
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