Wheels: Wisconsin (650 vs. 700)

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Wookie Kim, May 2, 2006.

  1. Wookie Kim

    Wookie Kim Guest

    A couple general questions:

    1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    are the drawbacks?

    2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    switching wheels

    I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin. Taking
    into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim wheels are
    not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.

    I am looking into these wheelsets:
    Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but they dont seem very aero)
    Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are they too aero for me?)
    HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable)
    Zipp 404 (too aero?)
    (any other suitable ones?)

    I think I would prefer clinchers.

    Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit my
    needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    Easton Vista wheels...)

    Thank you for your help!
     
    Tags:


  2. Wookie Kim

    Wookie Kim Guest

    Wookie Kim wrote:
    > A couple general questions:
    >
    > 1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    > are the drawbacks?
    >
    > 2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    > switching wheels
    >
    > I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin. Taking
    > into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim wheels are
    > not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.
    >
    > I am looking into these wheelsets:
    > Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but they dont seem very aero)
    > Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are they too aero for me?)
    > HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    > Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable)
    > Zipp 404 (too aero?)
    > (any other suitable ones?)
    >
    > I think I would prefer clinchers.
    >
    > Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit my
    > needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    > Easton Vista wheels...)
    >
    > Thank you for your help!


    I forgot to add that I would like to join my school's cycling team next
    year, so please take this into consideration (what are the drawbacks of
    having 650 for road racing?)
     
  3. In article <[email protected]>,
    Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A couple general questions:
    >
    > 1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    > are the drawbacks?
    >
    > 2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    > switching wheels
    >
    > I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin. Taking
    > into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim wheels are
    > not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.
    >
    > I am looking into these wheelsets:
    > Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but they dont seem very aero)
    > Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are they too aero for me?)
    > HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    > Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable)
    > Zipp 404 (too aero?)
    > (any other suitable ones?)
    >
    > I think I would prefer clinchers.
    >
    > Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit my
    > needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    > Easton Vista wheels...)


    You have not told us why you want to change. Are the
    wheels too big for your bicycles's frame size? Look into a
    bicycle specially constructed to take a 700c wheel in back
    and a smaller wheel in front.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  4. Wookie Kim

    Wookie Kim Guest

    Michael Press wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>A couple general questions:
    >>
    >>1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    >>are the drawbacks?
    >>
    >>2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    >>switching wheels
    >>
    >>I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin. Taking
    >>into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim wheels are
    >>not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.
    >>
    >>I am looking into these wheelsets:
    >>Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but they dont seem very aero)
    >>Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are they too aero for me?)
    >>HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    >>Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable)
    >>Zipp 404 (too aero?)
    >>(any other suitable ones?)
    >>
    >>I think I would prefer clinchers.
    >>
    >>Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit my
    >>needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    >>Easton Vista wheels...)

    >
    >
    > You have not told us why you want to change. Are the
    > wheels too big for your bicycles's frame size? Look into a
    > bicycle specially constructed to take a 700c wheel in back
    > and a smaller wheel in front.
    >


    The only reason I was considering switching to 650 was that I heard that
    650 is better for people with shorter stature. I am buying a new
    wheelset just because i want to go faster, not because the wheels are
    too big. Will it feel really different if I used 650 vs 700?
     
  5. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:

    >A couple general questions:
    >
    >1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    >are the drawbacks?


    The drawbacks are that your pedals will grind into the road on the
    corners, which you'll be taking too fast since the brakes don't
    actually contact the rims any longer. Other than that, no problems...
    ;-)

    >2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    >switching wheels


    On some bikes, set up for some riders, the toe can make contact with
    the front tire in a very sharp turn (possible to turn the bars that
    much only at very, very low speeds). Some people lose sleep over it,
    but it's generally not a problem once you practice dropping your heel
    to clear the interference, or simply avoiding getting your foot in the
    way of the front tire when turning very slowly.

    >I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin. Taking
    >into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim wheels are
    >not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.


    Horses for courses. It's all a trade-off...

    >I am looking into these wheelsets:
    >Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but they dont seem very aero)
    >Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are they too aero for me?)
    >HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    >Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable)
    >Zipp 404 (too aero?)
    >(any other suitable ones?)
    >
    >I think I would prefer clinchers.


    Probably. Tubies are great if you are willing to suffer the potential
    downside for the weight savings (not a big deal in an IM race).

    >Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit my
    >needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    >Easton Vista wheels...)


    Not familiar with the Easton wheels, but unless you go with a pretty
    radically aero wheel, you probably won't be making much of a change in
    your velocity (and even then, not as much as you might think). A set
    of nice semi-aero rims with bladed or oval spokes would be a good
    choice it seems.

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $795 ti frame

    >Thank you for your help!
     
  6. Jeff Starr

    Jeff Starr Guest

    On Wed, 03 May 2006 07:58:36 -0400, Wookie Kim <[email protected]>
    wrote:



    >
    >The only reason I was considering switching to 650 was that I heard that
    >650 is better for people with shorter stature. I am buying a new
    >wheelset just because i want to go faster, not because the wheels are
    >too big. Will it feel really different if I used 650 vs 700?


    Are you happy with your bicycle, overall? If not, buy a complete bike
    that fits you and your needs. If you are happy with your bike, and it
    has 700 wheels now, stay with 700. There are too many variables to be
    changing wheel size. The benefit of a second set of wheels is that you
    can swap back and forth. With different sizes, that can't easily be
    done.

    A new set of wheels isn't going to make you faster, in any meaningful
    way. Unless, you are getting everything possible out of your current
    equipment. With rare exception, you can't buy speed. You need to work
    on the real variable, the engine. The engine is you.

    Contact a respected wheelbuilder and have them design a set of wheels
    specifically for you. I personally recommend that you contact Peter
    from Vecchio's. He will build you a set of problem free wheels, that
    will serve your needs. And most likely for less than the other wheels
    that you are considering.
    http://www.vecchios.com/

    Is competitive bicycling a new endeavor for you? Your questions
    indicate that it is. Your best bet will be to just make sure that your
    bike is problem free, and then compete, get some experience. While
    doing that, look for some experienced people to learn from.
    Be careful about taking advice from people online or who you don't
    know. There are lots of "experts" out there, who really don't know
    what they are talking about. If it sounds unbelievable, it probably
    is.


    Life is Good!
    Jeff
     
  7. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:

    > A couple general questions:
    >
    > 1) Can a bike with 700c wheels be changed to 650 wheels? If so, what
    > are the drawbacks?


    No. Your brakes won't reach to the rims.

    > 2) What is the so-called problem of "toe overlap" when referring to
    > switching wheels


    Means your foot can hit the tire if the bars are turned sharply enough.
    Not a problem at speeds over about 5 mph.

    > I am 5'4" 127lbs and looking for a wheelset for the IM Wisconsin.
    > Taking into account the windy course, I am thinking that deep-rim
    > wheels are not the way to go. Neither are the HED tri-spokes.


    Windy depends on the weather on the day of the event.

    > I am looking into these wheelsets: Mavic Ksyrium SL (I like them but
    > they dont seem very aero) Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL (very cool, but are
    > they too aero for me?) HED Alps (very cool, but are they too aero?)
    > Zipp 303 (these seem pretty reasonable) Zipp 404 (too aero?) (any
    > other suitable ones?)


    The benefits of "aero" wheels really only come in at high speeds- 30 mph
    or so. Can you ride that fast long enough to benefit from such wheels?

    > I think I would prefer clinchers.


    Easier to fix, better tire selection, you can get 'em anywhere.

    > Which wheelsize should I go with, and which wheelset would best fit
    > my needs (I am short and light, but want to be faster than my current
    > Easton Vista wheels...)


    IMHO 700C wheels are generally the best option. There are a few
    exceptions for specific circumstances, but relatively few Americans ride
    under those circumstances. 650C has become popular with triathletes for
    reasons that are really unknown to me, and I think the drawbacks far
    outweigh whatever benefits these wheels are thought to have. I think
    it's telling that pro bike racers have not switched en masse to 650C
    fort TT bikes.
     
  8. bfd

    bfd Guest

    One thing, when you say "650" wheels, do you know there are THREE sizes
    of 650 wheels?

    650A (590mm) usually found on English cruisers
    650B (584mm) usually found on French touring bikes and currently being
    revival by Rivendell, Jan Heine as a "sensible" size for "country
    bikes."
    650C (571mm) usually found on triathelete bikes.

    IF you want to go faster, than you need to follow Eddy Merckx's advice
    and "ride lots"....
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>,
    Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Michael Press wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected]>,
    > > Wookie Kim <[email protected]> wrote:


    [...]

    > > You have not told us why you want to change. Are the
    > > wheels too big for your bicycles's frame size? Look into a
    > > bicycle specially constructed to take a 700c wheel in back
    > > and a smaller wheel in front.
    > >

    >
    > The only reason I was considering switching to 650 was that I heard that
    > 650 is better for people with shorter stature. I am buying a new
    > wheelset just because i want to go faster, not because the wheels are
    > too big. Will it feel really different if I used 650 vs 700?


    What reasons did you `hear' for changing wheel size? Could
    it be that a 700c wheel is marginally too big for a
    bicycle frame fitted to a rider whose height is under
    5'6"? My advice: either buy a bicycle built for short
    riders with a 700c wheel in back and a smaller wheel in
    front; OR keep your current wheels. Do not change the
    wheel size on the current bicycle frame.

    --
    Michael Press
     
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