When cyclists squat...

[Carrera]

Cool it uploaded O.K. You'll notice I used no belt back then and just normal stands as opposed to a power rack. You'll also notice I'm not really a big dude, so to speak. In that pic I weight around 190 or maybe less.

Personally i placed the board under my heals, since it helped me feel a little more balanced with 415lb on a bar whilst squating, the last thing you need is to feel somewhat uncomfortable or unstable with that amount on a bar.

As for stance unless i didn't intend going all the way down i would use a wide stance, but if my intentions where to go lower, then i would always try to maintain > feet shoulder width apart, toes pointing forwards, bottom stuck out, shoulders back ensuring that the lower back was arched this helps prevent any disks getting slipped as you squat, its also good to stand on a box with the bar behind you and touch your heels, touch your hamstrings with the bar> these are hack squats, without the machine, helps one practice the correct squat position.

but now adays i prefare Circuit training, this involves no weights.

 

[closesupport]

Cool it uploaded O.K. You'll notice I used no belt back then and just normal stands as opposed to a power rack. You'll also notice I'm not really a big dude, so to speak. In that pic I weight around 190 or maybe less.

I haven't got any photos like that, it was some 9yrs ago that i used to do body building, i jacked it in to do athletics. i found that i prefared the chemical high from longer distance running and circuit training, so from 13.5stone (189lb) to 10.10st (141.4lb) through running over 100m per week, now since an injury; i manage to maintain 11.5stone (161lb) cycling some 150m per week.

Now i just ride, and the occasssonal situp session, its good really that i can still manage my weight with the ability to drop weight as i please and put it on however i choose But i can't imagine me ever using a squat frame agai, although i wouldn't mnd the leg press and steps, steps are best for the muscle groups for cycling i feel, squats really don't benefit!

but each to there own hey! i should say squats don't benefit me for cycling.

 

[Carrera]

I agree. Light squats may help cyclists but very high-intensity squatting puts too much muscle on the body. Virtually all champion cyclists don't carry muscle (even some weightlifters don't carry muscle).
I'm on a weight cycle at present due to a minor knee injury as I find gym work is beneficial for injury - especially machines.

I haven't got any photos like that, it was some 9yrs ago that i used to do body building, i jacked it in to do athletics. i found that i prefared the chemical high from longer distance running and circuit training, so from 13.5stone (189lb) to 10.10st (141.4lb) through running over 100m per week, now since an injury; i manage to maintain 11.5stone (161lb) cycling some 150m per week.

Now i just ride, and the occasssonal situp session, its good really that i can still manage my weight with the ability to drop weight as i please and put it on however i choose But i can't imagine me ever using a squat frame agai, although i wouldn't mnd the leg press and steps, steps are best for the muscle groups for cycling i feel, squats really don't benefit!

but each to there own hey! i should say squats don't benefit me for cycling.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I agree. Light squats may help cyclists but very high-intensity squatting puts too much muscle on the body

for the umpteenth time squats (or weight training) do not help cycling (unless you're a track sprinter, or of a low fitness).

ric

 

[Carrera]

That's what I just said in my last post. I said that light squatting can be done for fitness but really intense, muscle-building squats wouldn't help your cycling. I definitely think that weights are good for cycling injuries, however, but that's just my own view.

for the umpteenth time squats (or weight training) do not help cycling (unless you're a track sprinter, or of a low fitness).

ric

 

[closesupport]

That's what I just said in my last post. I said that light squatting can be done for fitness but really intense, muscle-building squats wouldn't help your cycling. I definitely think that weights are good for cycling injuries, however, but that's just my own view.

Squats improve strength, but you have to have the back and lower dorsal to hold any significant weight, i don't want any extra upper body surface area so i choose to do leg press etc... don't want nor need any upper surface area, i think i encounter enough wind resistance..

ohh track sprinters, that would be me..... ohhh! i could do squats... ! i think not

 

[Carrera]

I know cyclists tend to favour leg presses but I kind of think they're pretty useless. I think the smith machine is far better I (depending on the quality of machine).
I agree with many points Rick has made with regard to the fact that squats won't improve cycling performance and, yes, he has a point that muscle mass will hinder cycling (as you also said).
As I've expressed repeatedly, the value of weight work is as a means to gain weight during the off season which is what we were discussing on the ideal weight thread. My own ideal weight is about 180 so if I dropped below that I'd certainly do some weights to hold on to the mass. I feel I lose energy and power if my weight drops too much.
However, if I squatted really hard and went up to 200 lbs my cycling would really suffer in the hills.
By the way, those squats you can see me doing come with a price. I squatted up to 550 lbs when I was in my teens and I'm now 40. All those years and my joints kind of ache.

Squats improve strength, but you have to have the back and lower dorsal to hold any significant weight, i don't want any extra upper body surface area so i choose to do leg press etc... don't want nor need any upper surface area, i think i encounter enough wind resistance..

ohh track sprinters, that would be me..... ohhh! i could do squats... ! i think not

 

[closesupport]

I know cyclists tend to favour leg presses but I kind of think they're pretty useless. I think the smith machine is far better I (depending on the quality of machine).
I agree with many points Rick has made with regard to the fact that squats won't improve cycling performance and, yes, he has a point that muscle mass will hinder cycling (as you also said).
As I've expressed repeatedly, the value of weight work is as a means to gain weight during the off season which is what we were discussing on the ideal weight thread. My own ideal weight is about 180 so if I dropped below that I'd certainly do some weights to hold on to the mass. I feel I lose energy and power if my weight drops too much.
However, if I squatted really hard and went up to 200 lbs my cycling would really suffer in the hills.
By the way, those squats you can see me doing come with a price. I squatted up to 550 lbs when I was in my teens and I'm now 40. All those years and my joints kind of ache.

I used to do some very large weights when i was squating, but i have always thought that steps helped me more than squats, although last year at work i was working on the top floor of the warehouse, this was 16 flights of stairs each day and 8 flights to the canteen that 48 flights of stairs each day, and surprizingly last year i achieved my personal best on more than one occassion. this year i haven't got all the stairs to travel up and down, but i have maintained it, through increasing my cycling this year...

 

[Carrera]

You should relocate to Russia. I lived on the top floor of a block of flats over there and talk about stair-climbing!
Seeing as all my friends drank vodka, I tended to blend in and found those stair climbs damned murder after a few drinks. The lifts in Russia back then never worked, although local phone calls were totally free of charge.

I used to do some very large weights when i was squating, but i have always thought that steps helped me more than squats, although last year at work i was working on the top floor of the warehouse, this was 16 flights of stairs each day and 8 flights to the canteen that 48 flights of stairs each day, and surprizingly last year i achieved my personal best on more than one occassion. this year i haven't got all the stairs to travel up and down, but i have maintained it, through increasing my cycling this year...

 

[ed073]

You should relocate to Russia. I lived on the top floor of a block of flats over there and talk about stair-climbing!
Seeing as all my friends drank vodka, I tended to blend in and found those stair climbs damned murder after a few drinks. The lifts in Russia back then never worked, although local phone calls were totally free of charge.

Look at what competitive stair-climbing has done for Paul Crake's cycling career. Riding for Australia on the road at the world's!!

 

[sjay]

When I trained in a Russian gym I found the squatters all used a very wide stance. With the very heavy weights, the best squatter virtually mummified his waist with bandages and had 2 guys pull his belt tight. I always squatted with a narrow, shoulder width stance so I found the Russian style strange.

Just one question. Has your powerlifting background caused any stamina problems for you on the bike? Do you find you have an abundance of physical power for climbing e.t.c. but tend to find endurance more difficult?

My powerlifting hasn't caused me any problems with stamina as previous to powerlifting I used to run long distances. (I know strange combination) I changed to powerlifting due to knee injuries through running. It started as a means of strengthening my quad muscles. However, I found that conventional squatting always hurt my knees - I have patella tendonitis. I then switched to something called box squatting, a style which has been pioneered by Westside Barbell. It teachers you to squat in a style which places more emphasis on the glutes and hamstrings - hence wide stance and 'sitting back' not down when you squat. Since the switch I've not had an ache in my knees, which in my opinion speaks volumes about not letting your knees move forward during squatting. Do I find it easy to climb hills- God no, I've got strong hamstrings, which aren't good for climbing hills. I usually find, if I ease back on my lifting, my cycling strength improves, but if I stop using weights altogether, my cycling performance starts to decline.

 

[closesupport]

Look at what competitive stair-climbing has done for Paul Crake's cycling career. Riding for Australia on the road at the world's!!

Point is?

stair climbing > steppers are the in thing at my local fitness centre, that and spinning on exercise bikes but you still get the odd one or 2 that apply there fitness training by high reps and running, with max lifts set to around 170-200lbs anything more messes up the muscles that allow one to stride? nothing worse than the inside of your thighs slapping together as you try to run, rubbing the frame as you try to get that slittle more streamline

 

[sjay]

Point is?

stair climbing > steppers are the in thing at my local fitness centre, that and spinning on exercise bikes but you still get the odd one or 2 that apply there fitness training by high reps and running, with max lifts set to around 170-200lbs anything more messes up the muscles that allow one to stride? nothing worse than the inside of your thighs slapping together as you try to run, rubbing the frame as you try to get that slittle more streamline

Question: Would spinning classes be beneficial to cycling as a training aid?

 

[ric_stern/RST]

Question: Would spinning classes be beneficial to cycling as a training aid?

i guess it would depend on a) what the other options for training are; and b) what type of cycling and cyclist you are referring to

ric

 

[Carrera]

I suspect one problem from a powerlifting (or bodybuilding) background is that heavy weights seem to thicken the tendons of the knees and joints as a whole. This in itself is O.K. but what happens when you lose muscle?
I suspect my own problem may be that when I switched to cycling my legs gradually began to slim down and I lost quite a bit of muscle. I was doing lots of climbing and 3 hour rides as opposed to sprinting. Therefore, I think the loss of muscle around the knees (and above the knees) made my knees far more vulnerable to injury. I found my knees were really acheing when I knelt down and the crepitus was cause for concern.
Of course, if you think about it, it stands to reason that bodybuilding can cause problems in the long term if you actually alter the dimensions of your physique. Those big knees and huge quads can get tight and once a person stops training, muscle disappears and joints may lose strength.This is due to the transition in muscle mass around the knee and elasticity e.t.c.
Therefore, the problem that faces some bodybuilders or powerlifters who get into cycling is possible stress on the knee joints when gradual muscle loss takes place.
As for performance, I find I can climb very steep hills in bigger gears than non weight-trained riders. The steeper the grade, the more effective I am, the more I find the non-weight-trained rider tends to slow down. My problem is that I'm not really so hot on the flat and am scared of descents.

My powerlifting hasn't caused me any problems with stamina as previous to powerlifting I used to run long distances. (I know strange combination) I changed to powerlifting due to knee injuries through running. It started as a means of strengthening my quad muscles. However, I found that conventional squatting always hurt my knees - I have patella tendonitis. I then switched to something called box squatting, a style which has been pioneered by Westside Barbell. It teachers you to squat in a style which places more emphasis on the glutes and hamstrings - hence wide stance and 'sitting back' not down when you squat. Since the switch I've not had an ache in my knees, which in my opinion speaks volumes about not letting your knees move forward during squatting. Do I find it easy to climb hills- God no, I've got strong hamstrings, which aren't good for climbing hills. I usually find, if I ease back on my lifting, my cycling strength improves, but if I stop using weights altogether, my cycling performance starts to decline.

 

[closesupport]

I suspect one problem from a powerlifting (or bodybuilding) background is that heavy weights seem to thicken the tendons of the knees and joints as a whole. This in itself is O.K. but what happens when you lose muscle?
I suspect my own problem may be that when I switched to cycling my legs gradually began to slim down and I lost quite a bit of muscle. I was doing lots of climbing and 3 hour rides as opposed to sprinting. Therefore, I think the loss of muscle around the knees (and above the knees) made my knees far more vulnerable to injury. I found my knees were really acheing when I knelt down and the crepitus was cause for concern.
Of course, if you think about it, it stands to reason that bodybuilding can cause problems in the long term if you actually alter the dimensions of your physique. Those big knees and huge quads can get tight and once a person stops training, muscle disappears and joints may lose strength.This is due to the transition in muscle mass around the knee and elasticity e.t.c.
Therefore, the problem that faces some bodybuilders or powerlifters who get into cycling is possible stress on the knee joints when gradual muscle loss takes place.
As for performance, I find I can climb very steep hills in bigger gears than non weight-trained riders. The steeper the grade, the more effective I am, the more I find the non-weight-trained rider tends to slow down. My problem is that I'm not really so hot on the flat and am scared of descents.

well thats probably where we differ, i don't body build anymore, i never have power lifted, but when i hit hills and larger gradients i can still maintain a reasonable speed, i still overtake other cyclist, maybe its due to the fact that when i ride i ride in the opposite direction to most cyclists in my area, i head for the hills why they head off for the decents and flats.

i do come across a number of decents and flats but more hills than i would if i was to travel in the direction of most the cyclist, i always tend to head off into the wind mashing out the larger gears why most cyclist try to keep a tailwind, so on calmer days i find that my legs are strong and maintained strong from this kind of powertraining, i do lots of spinning and sprinting, but haven't been in a gym for some 6yrs my upper body mass may have decreased considerably but the muscle groups that i desire to use the most still maintain there size through adequate protein intake and rest.

spinning is good when you only have shorter distances to travel, my cardiovascular ability and lactate threshold are maintaned by spinning rediculous rpms over shorter distances on my mtb.

so my 17" calf my 28" quad are maintained by this type of training regimn.

 

[ed073]

Point is?

That elite stair-climbing has great crossover to road racing.

 

[closesupport]

That elite stair-climbing has great crossover to road racing.

i know, its a method i use and have used, its better still if you put the weight that you would normally squat with and step up onto a box and step off, you may even find that you can put alot more weight on the bar than you squat with inturn offering more of an ability to apply more presure to the pedals when its required most...

ohh i forget you end up with a big **** (hamstring and glutes) opposed to big quads..

 

[ed073]

i know, its a method i use and have used, its better still if you put the weight that you would normally squat with and step up onto a box and step off, you may even find that you can put alot more weight on the bar than you squat with inturn offering more of an ability to apply more presure to the pedals when its required most...

ohh i forget you end up with a big **** (hamstring and glutes) opposed to big quads..

What on earth are you talking about???

Racing up stairs and elite road cycling have nothing to do with weighted step-ups in a gym.

 

[closesupport]

What on earth are you talking about???

Racing up stairs and elite road cycling have nothing to do with weighted step-ups in a gym.

no but it does increase the muscle's that are required to push that little harder, to be able to apply that little more force..

nevermind! wasted here...