When is a bike lane not a bike lane?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by DaveB, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    In Melbourne there seems to be an increasing number of what looks to be
    a bike lane where the lane is marked with a dashed line and only goes
    for a few metres but repeats every 50-100 metres. I've noticed them on
    Studley Rd Kew prior to hitting the "real" bike lane that runs down to
    Johnstone St. But I've also seem them a lot of other places. I assume
    this is just a cost cutting measure to save on the costs of doing a full
    bike lane. But what I was wondering is what protection do these pretend
    lanes offer. In a real lane it is fairly obvious to car drivers where
    they should and shouldn't be, but with these pretend lanes are they
    supposed to swerve out of the way every 50 metres at the markings, and
    what would be the point.
    Dave B.
     
    Tags:


  2. Alan Erskine

    Alan Erskine Guest

    "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In Melbourne there seems to be an increasing number of what looks to be
    > a bike lane where the lane is marked with a dashed line and only goes
    > for a few metres but repeats every 50-100 metres. I've noticed them on
    > Studley Rd Kew prior to hitting the "real" bike lane that runs down to
    > Johnstone St. But I've also seem them a lot of other places. I assume
    > this is just a cost cutting measure to save on the costs of doing a full
    > bike lane. But what I was wondering is what protection do these pretend
    > lanes offer. In a real lane it is fairly obvious to car drivers where
    > they should and shouldn't be, but with these pretend lanes are they
    > supposed to swerve out of the way every 50 metres at the markings, and
    > what would be the point.
    > Dave B.
    >

    As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bike lane on the road. I _never_ use
    them and feel justified in 'Civil disobedience' by riding (carefully) on
    footpaths after that poor man was killed in 2001 by the woman who was using
    a mobile phone at the time. She got off with a two year suspended sentence
    and lost her drivers lisence for two years - Scott Free.

    By the same token, why are pedestrians allowed to walk on bike paths? The
    one by the Esplanade in St Kilda is a hellish experience with people not
    only walking on the path, but *running* across it from behind bushes etc.
     
  3. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "Alan Erskine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bike lane on the road. I _never_ use
    > them and feel justified in 'Civil disobedience' by riding (carefully) on
    > footpaths after that poor man was killed in 2001 by the woman who was

    using
    > a mobile phone at the time. She got off with a two year suspended

    sentence
    > and lost her drivers lisence for two years - Scott Free.
    >
    > By the same token, why are pedestrians allowed to walk on bike paths? The


    They are probably trying to save themselves from the roller bladers
    and dog walkers, etc! :)

    > one by the Esplanade in St Kilda is a hellish experience with people not
    > only walking on the path, but *running* across it from behind bushes etc.


    Personally, I still find the road a lot safer and a lot more predicatable
    than any footpath bikelane. Of course, it depends on your speed, but
    that's what it's like for me. It's just not possible to dodge that unseen
    car reversing out of their driveway every 10m at 30kph+.

    hippy
     
  4. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    Baka Dasai wrote:
    > On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:03:01 +1100, DaveB said (and I quote):
    >
    >>In Melbourne there seems to be an increasing number of what looks to be
    >>a bike lane where the lane is marked with a dashed line and only goes
    >>for a few metres but repeats every 50-100 metres. I've noticed them on
    >>Studley Rd Kew prior to hitting the "real" bike lane that runs down to
    >>Johnstone St. But I've also seem them a lot of other places. I assume
    >>this is just a cost cutting measure to save on the costs of doing a full
    >>bike lane. But what I was wondering is what protection do these pretend
    >>lanes offer.

    >
    >
    > Exactly the same amount as a "real" bike lane.
    >
    >
    >>In a real lane it is fairly obvious to car drivers where
    >>they should and shouldn't be, but with these pretend lanes are they
    >>supposed to swerve out of the way every 50 metres at the markings, and
    >>what would be the point.

    >
    >
    > Well, cars have to swerve into the bike lane every time they make a
    > left turn, and bikes have to swerve into the "car" lane every time
    > they make a right turn, so I'm not sure that these pretend bike lanes
    > are any different from normal bike lanes, or from a street with no
    > bike lane for that matter.


    I think you're missing the point. My question is what is the point in a
    bike lane that goes for 2 metres?

    Dave B.
     
  5. Ritch

    Ritch Guest

    "hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Alan Erskine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bike lane on the road. I _never_ use
    > > them and feel justified in 'Civil disobedience' by riding (carefully) on
    > > footpaths after that poor man was killed in 2001 by the woman who was

    > using
    > > a mobile phone at the time. She got off with a two year suspended

    > sentence
    > > and lost her drivers lisence for two years - Scott Free.
    > >
    > > By the same token, why are pedestrians allowed to walk on bike paths? The

    >
    > They are probably trying to save themselves from the roller bladers
    > and dog walkers, etc! :)
    >
    > > one by the Esplanade in St Kilda is a hellish experience with people not
    > > only walking on the path, but *running* across it from behind bushes etc.

    >
    > Personally, I still find the road a lot safer and a lot more predicatable
    > than any footpath bikelane. Of course, it depends on your speed, but
    > that's what it's like for me. It's just not possible to dodge that unseen
    > car reversing out of their driveway every 10m at 30kph+.
    >
    > hippy


    I'm with you on that one, hippy. The footpath and most bikepaths are
    very dangerous at 30+kph. Of course it doesn't make the road any
    safer, but at those speeds I prefer to take my chances on the road.

    Thanks also the Sydney's train stoppage earlier this week. The ensuing
    traffic jam was the worst I've seen in an evening commute - and I left
    at 7pm. The risks that motorists take in such circumstances is mind
    boggling, especially when they gain only a few car lengths in the
    process.

    The taxi that decided to escape the jam by turning sharply (w/o
    indicating) into the side street gave me a chance to execute an
    emergency left turn. This is an extremely useful maneuver, without
    which I would have become part of the passenger side door.

    Hopefully Sydney trains can get back to normal (crap but still sort of
    working) so I have half a chance on the roads again.

    Ritch
     
  6. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    "Alan Erskine" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "DaveB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > As far as I'm concerned, it's not a bike lane on the road. I _never_ use
    > them and feel justified in 'Civil disobedience' by riding (carefully) on
    > footpaths after that poor man was killed in 2001 by the woman who was

    using
    > a mobile phone at the time.


    Crikey, we will have to drive cars carfully on the footpath as mobile
    phones have been responsible for passenger deaths as well.

    Pete
     
  7. Spider1977

    Spider1977 Guest

    Just spent the weekend in Melbourne. Hired a bike and rode with my so
    along the Yarra Trail to Studley Park Rd and then back through Richmon
    to Burnley using the bike lane. These are fantastic. Even though ther
    was heavy traffic, no one infringed the well marked lane, apart fro
    intersections where things got a bit dodgy for us, but no real dramas

    These bike lanes are a fantastic idea, as is the trail along bot
    sides of the Yarra. When I was a young guy at school in the 70's th
    Yarra banks were infested with blackberries, at least you can sea th
    river now

    In Hobart we have a poor excuse for a bike lane near Taroona, but it'
    not much wider than about a metre, of which 30cm is taken up with th
    gutter. The road is windy and smooth so travelling at anything more tha
    about 20kph it's pretty hard to stay in the "lane", which is full o
    stones and glass. That's when I'd say that a bike lane isn't a bik
    lane. But hey - it's the only one in the whole damn city, apart from th
    bike track.:mad


    -
     
  8. ftf

    ftf Guest

    Baka Dasai wrote:
    > On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:33:03 +1100, DaveB said (and I quote):
    > > Baka Dasai wrote:
    > >> Well, cars have to swerve into the bike lane every time they make a
    > >> left turn, and bikes have to swerve into the "car" lane every time
    > >> they make a right turn, so I'm not sure that these pretend bike lanes
    > >> are any different from normal bike lanes, or from a street with no
    > >> bike lane for that matter.

    > >
    > > I think you're missing the point. My question is what is the point in
    > > a bike lane that goes for 2 metres?

    > No, I get your point. I think you're missing my point, which is that
    > there is little point to any bike lane, seeing as both motorists and
    > cyclists have to ignore the bike lane at the parts of the road where the
    > vast bulk of collisions occur - intersections.
    > --
    > A: Top-posters.
    > B: What's the most annoying thing on usenet?



    It really does seem like a token effort rather than a practical one..
    i mean the only people that notice those dashed lines every 50 metre
    with the bicycle symbol are the cyclists!!??!! It is a little bette
    than nothing

    However it seems to be quite unfortunate that the quality of the roa
    within these 'part-time' bike lanes is often far below many of th
    dedicated (and badly made) bike paths around. Does Bridge Rd in Richmon
    ring a bell here? Nothing quite like riding on bluestone circa 1920's

    Also, has anyone noticed that a number of these dashed lines and symbol
    were blacked out i.e. gone over with black paint? Whats with that

    Cheers, Tro


    -
     
  9. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb Guest

    ftf wrote:
    > Also, has anyone noticed that a number of these dashed lines and symbols
    > were blacked out i.e. gone over with black paint? Whats with that?
    > Cheers, Troy





    Dunno, maybe it's VicRoads practising the mysterous Black Art of
    archaic traffic planning, painting weird and confusing runic symbols on
    the road...

    For more about on-road bicycle lanes, consult the oracles; BV - Bike
    lanes and cars: http://bv.com.au/content.cfm?submenuid=64&contentid=467

    Footpath cycling:
    http://bv.com.au/content.cfm?submenuid=64&contentid=242

    VicRoads info, more smoke and mirrors: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/v-
    rne/vrninte.nsf/alldocs/7696A57ED0F32A0ECA256B980003D610?OpenDocument&A-
    rea=[Cyclists]



    --
     
  10. Jess

    Jess Guest

    When is a bike lane not a bike lane....

    When its coated in glass/metal/car bits and anything that could damage my
    bike...that includes bluestone!
     
  11. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch Guest

    Jess wrote:
    > When is a bike lane not a bike lane....
    > When its coated in glass/metal/car bits and anything that could damage
    > my bike...that includes bluestone!



    i thought bike lanes were designated areas to sweep glass, rubbish, et
    into and never repair. That seems to be what most councils think..

    These short bike lanes just stink of trying to please all the people al
    the time, and of course pleasing nobody

    Take a look at Kew junction recently? They have painted out the bik
    lanes so as not to offend drivers trying to run over the Tram passenger
    as they alight out front of the 'skinny dog'. Seems to be a Booroodar
    thang. Shall be at that meeting tomoorow night with bells on


    -
     
  12. DaveB

    DaveB Guest

    cfsmtb wrote:
    > ftf wrote:
    > > Also, has anyone noticed that a number of these dashed lines and symbols
    > > were blacked out i.e. gone over with black paint? Whats with that?
    > > Cheers, Troy

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Dunno, maybe it's VicRoads practising the mysterous Black Art of
    > archaic traffic planning, painting weird and confusing runic symbols on
    > the road...
    >
    > For more about on-road bicycle lanes, consult the oracles; BV - Bike
    > lanes and cars: http://bv.com.au/content.cfm?submenuid=64&contentid=467
    >
    > Footpath cycling:
    > http://bv.com.au/content.cfm?submenuid=64&contentid=242
    >
    > VicRoads info, more smoke and mirrors: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/v-
    > rne/vrninte.nsf/alldocs/7696A57ED0F32A0ECA256B980003D610?OpenDocument&A-
    > rea=[Cyclists]
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    >


    Yep, the Bike Vic site was the go. Here's what they had to say about
    WKL's (wide kerb lanes) which is what the original post was about. Can't
    see what the point is myself. The lane is to be shared, which is what
    would happen if the lane wasn't there, and it has no legal status anyway.

    WKL Advisory Lane Markings
    At the time of writing, VicRoads are
    trialing wide kerbside lane advisory
    markings in some lanes that are in excess
    of 3.7 metres. The left lane has bike
    stencils accompanied with dotted lines at
    long intervals. The purpose of the markings
    is to indicate that bikes and motor vehicles
    share the lane. Drivers recognise that the
    lane is to be shared with cyclists. They are
    advisory only and have no legal status.

    Dave B.
     
  13. Russell Lang

    Russell Lang Guest

    When it is marked "bicycles 8am-9am" and "no standing",
    but is next to a school and looks like a good place to drop
    off your child. Don't worry that you are blocking the view of
    the school crossing. The safety of your child is more important
    than other children on the crossing or bicycles. Just ignore
    the available parking provided on the other side next to the
    school. It couldn't possible be a "no standing" zone, there
    are two other cars doing the same thing. :)
     
  14. hippy

    hippy Guest

    "ftf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vwzVb.22082
    > i mean the only people that notice those dashed lines every 50 metres
    > with the bicycle symbol are the cyclists!!??!! It is a little better


    Huh? What lines? We do? ;-)

    > However it seems to be quite unfortunate that the quality of the road
    > within these 'part-time' bike lanes is often far below many of the
    > dedicated (and badly made) bike paths around. Does Bridge Rd in Richmond
    > ring a bell here? Nothing quite like riding on bluestone circa 1920's.


    I thought those lines were just to show the street sweepers
    where to leave the glass..?

    hippy
     
  15. DRS

    DRS Guest

    hippy <[email protected]> wrote in message
    [email protected]

    [...]

    > I thought those lines were just to show the street sweepers
    > where to leave the glass..?


    Heh. Pay that.

    --

    A: Top-posters.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
     
  16. Spider1977

    Spider1977 Guest

    To answer the question (FMPOV)

    When it's a bike track with signs about no animals allowed and you pass
    people walking their dogs (nearly every day).

    Or when it's a cycle track and you see people on Vesper equivalents
    travelling along it (last Monday at Glenorchy).

    Or when the so called bike lane is really part of the gutter (near the
    Taroona pub).

    Or when the bike lane is so narrow that you can't even ride a road bike
    in it without banging your bars on the bushes (again near Taroona).

    Or when there isn't a frigging bike lane at all (99.9999999999% of
    Tasmanian roads).



    --
     
  17. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb Guest

    Spider1977 wrote:
    > To answer the question (FMPOV) Or when there isn't a frigging bike lane
    > at all (99.9999999999% of Tasmanian roads).




    Ahh, somethings just never change do they?

    Fond childhood memories of Moonah, especially the Brooker...



    --
     
  18. dave

    dave Guest

    flyingdutch wrote:
    > Jess wrote:
    > > When is a bike lane not a bike lane....
    > > When its coated in glass/metal/car bits and anything that could damage
    > > my bike...that includes bluestone!

    >
    >
    >
    > i thought bike lanes were designated areas to sweep glass, rubbish, etc
    > into and never repair. That seems to be what most councils think...
    >
    > These short bike lanes just stink of trying to please all the people all
    > the time, and of course pleasing nobody!
    >
    > Take a look at Kew junction recently? They have painted out the bike
    > lanes so as not to offend drivers trying to run over the Tram passengers
    > as they alight out front of the 'skinny dog'. Seems to be a Booroodara
    > thang. Shall be at that meeting tomoorow night with bells on!
    >
    >


    Meeting??
     
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