When is cycling "dangerous"?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by warren, Aug 24, 2004.

  1. warren

    warren Guest

    A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    enhance one's life, etc.

    On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    $10,000?

    No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    different scenarios?

    -WG
     
    Tags:


  2. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > enhance one's life, etc.
    >
    > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > $10,000?



    Heck, that has happened to me for free
    Dave
     
  3. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > enhance one's life, etc.
    > >
    > > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > > $10,000?

    >
    >
    > Heck, that has happened to me for free
    > Dave


    I did better then that when I got hit head on by that car on the wrong side
    of the road, which I went flying over the top of car like superman. Didn't
    get hurt, so I must be superman, without a helmet as well.
     
  4. IMKen

    IMKen Guest

    yep, we would not do it for any amount of money. We always leave home
    thinking it wont happen to us. I remember one morning when the sun was
    coming up over the ridges and the sky was crystal clear on one of those
    mornings that only god could create. Well, things suddenly went wrong and I
    was on the road getting splattered. When all done I spent a little time in
    the ER and came away with only a broken collar bone, 7 broken ribs and a
    punctured lung. Hellofa fun day and would not chose to do it again for any
    sum of money.


    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > enhance one's life, etc.
    >
    > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > $10,000?
    >
    > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > different scenarios?
    >
    > -WG
     
  5. warren

    warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Sierraman
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > > enhance one's life, etc.
    > > >
    > > > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > > > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > > > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > > > $10,000?

    > >
    > >
    > > Heck, that has happened to me for free
    > > Dave

    >
    > I did better then that when I got hit head on by that car on the wrong side
    > of the road, which I went flying over the top of car like superman. Didn't
    > get hurt, so I must be superman, without a helmet as well.


    But if someone offered you the $10K in advance would you do it?

    -WG
     
  6. In article <240820042113314642%[email protected]>,
    warren <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Sierraman
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > > > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > > > enhance one's life, etc.
    > > > >
    > > > > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > > > > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > > > > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > > > > $10,000?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Heck, that has happened to me for free
    > > > Dave

    > >
    > > I did better then that when I got hit head on by that car on the wrong side
    > > of the road, which I went flying over the top of car like superman. Didn't
    > > get hurt, so I must be superman, without a helmet as well.

    >
    > But if someone offered you the $10K in advance would you do it?
    >
    > -WG


    Hm. I'd think about it. But I've crashed at faster speeds than that (off
    a motorcycle)

    We're talking US dollars, right? After-tax dollars, correct?

    young enough to be stupid,
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.
     
  7. "IMKen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > yep, we would not do it for any amount of money.


    I would not do it for any amount of money. Why would anyone? Money
    isn't that hard to get a hold of. And no, I'm not rich.

    And yes, I think cycling is quite dangerous.

    -RJ

    > "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > enhance one's life, etc.
    > >
    > > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > > $10,000?
    > >
    > > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > > different scenarios?
    > >
    > > -WG
     
  8. Bill Laudien

    Bill Laudien Guest

    Shit, I'd do that for 10G in a heartbeat.

    If you can get the money together, I'll do it.

    If you want to tape it and sell the tape, I'm fine with that too.

    Let me know.

    warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<240820041949173840%[email protected]>...
    > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > enhance one's life, etc.
    >
    > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > $10,000?
    >
    > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > different scenarios?
    >
    > -WG
     
  9. gym gravity

    gym gravity Guest

    Bill Laudien wrote:

    > Shit, I'd do that for 10G in a heartbeat.
    >
    > If you can get the money together, I'll do it.
    >
    > If you want to tape it and sell the tape, I'm fine with that too.
    >
    > Let me know.
    >


    Here's $5.
     
  10. warren wrote:
    > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > enhance one's life, etc.
    >
    > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > $10,000?
    >
    > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > different scenarios?
    >
    > -WG


    Well, this "very successful bike racer in his 60s" presumably has been
    around a while, though of course he may have just taken up racing.
    This is one of those things that is probably stronly colored by one's
    personal experience. All of us know people who've been severely injured
    racing. I would say that the majority of racers who've raced
    consistently for at least a few years have broken bones. Most are,
    however, reasonably healthy.
    No one enters racing if they think too much about crashing. If you
    become to afraid of crashing, it's time to quit. I did.
    So there is an element of denial in all this. Taking a chance on
    something that MIGHT injure you is not the same as taking $10,000 for a
    sure thing.
    But I can't live here in New York City thinking about the next
    terrorist threat, and folks in S.F. can't be waiting for the big one,
    though we know both of these things may happen.
    I guess the somewhat unsatisfactory answer is you do it because you
    want to, and I'll worry about the consequences when they happen.

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY
    718-258-5001
     
  11. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > warren wrote:
    > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > enhance one's life, etc.
    > >
    > > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > > $10,000?
    > >
    > > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > > different scenarios?
    > >
    > > -WG

    >
    > Well, this "very successful bike racer in his 60s" presumably has been
    > around a while, though of course he may have just taken up racing.
    > This is one of those things that is probably stronly colored by one's
    > personal experience. All of us know people who've been severely injured
    > racing. I would say that the majority of racers who've raced
    > consistently for at least a few years have broken bones. Most are,
    > however, reasonably healthy.
    > No one enters racing if they think too much about crashing. If you
    > become to afraid of crashing, it's time to quit. I did.
    > So there is an element of denial in all this. Taking a chance on
    > something that MIGHT injure you is not the same as taking $10,000 for a
    > sure thing.
    > But I can't live here in New York City thinking about the next
    > terrorist threat, and folks in S.F. can't be waiting for the big one,
    > though we know both of these things may happen.
    > I guess the somewhat unsatisfactory answer is you do it because you
    > want to, and I'll worry about the consequences when they happen.
    >
    > Steve
    >
    > --
    > Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    > http://www.dentaltwins.com
    > Brooklyn, NY
    > 718-258-5001


    God numbers our days. We don't have to be stupid, but we could as easily
    get creamed IN a car as BY one (or in any other kind of cycling accident).

    I got creamed by a car about 20 months ago. I literally bought the farm.
    Got a nifty new bike out of it and a $200,000 settlement that paid off what
    I owed on my 22 acre farm. Of course, $40,000 of that went to hospital
    bills, but it was still one of the best financial things that ever happened
    to me. Today I can hardly run a step. I walk OK. I can ride about as well
    as ever. And I'm debt free. Amen.

    The Lord works in mysterious ways.

    Bob C.
    P.S. The doc said, if it weren't for the fabulous condition I was in from
    all the riding I do, the wreck would almost certainly have killed me.
     
  12. Dave Casey

    Dave Casey Guest

    > but it was still one of the best financial things that ever happened
    > to me. Today I can hardly run a step. I walk OK. I can ride about
    > as well as ever. And I'm debt free. Amen.


    Yes, but the question is this. Telling us honestly, if you knew the
    financial outcome in advance and you saw that car coming at you again,
    would you do you level best to avoid the accident or would you just close
    your eyes and wait for it to happen? I can't imagine that money is much of
    a substitute if you've been put into a wheelchair.

    ------
    Dave Casey - Realtor
    www.LasVegasHomesDirect.com
    [email protected]
     
  13. Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <[email protected]> wrote:
    > warren wrote:
    > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > enhance one's life, etc.


    > No one enters racing if they think too much about crashing. If you
    > become to afraid of crashing, it's time to quit. I did.
    > So there is an element of denial in all this. Taking a chance on
    > something that MIGHT injure you is not the same as taking $10,000 for a
    > sure thing.
    > But I can't live here in New York City thinking about the next
    > terrorist threat, and folks in S.F. can't be waiting for the big one,
    > though we know both of these things may happen.
    > I guess the somewhat unsatisfactory answer is you do it because you
    > want to, and I'll worry about the consequences when they happen.


    IMO, bicycling on (most) roads with cars isn't dangerous, at least not
    enough more dangerous than driving on roads with cars to warrant
    worrying about it or stopping. It's also rather less dangerous than
    obesity or poor condition induced by lack of exercise.

    Bicycle racing is potentially dangerous. OTOH, the worst injury I've
    seen up close was at a CX race due to a wheel that folded up on flat
    ground 20 yards before the finish line - no bad cornering, no high
    speed, no getting taken out by squirrels, etc. You never know.

    What is really dangerous is sitting on your butt and never doing
    anything (cycling, or whatever) because you are afraid something bad
    might happen. IMHO. Like your point about NYC and SF.
     
  14. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    warren wrote:
    > But if someone offered you the $10K in advance would you do it?
    >
    > -WG


    Hell, I know how to fall.

    I'd be very tempted to give it a try, more likely to if I could put on
    some elbow and knee pads.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
    "We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
    a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
    them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
    could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
    instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"
     
  15. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Dave Casey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > but it was still one of the best financial things that ever happened
    > > to me. Today I can hardly run a step. I walk OK. I can ride about
    > > as well as ever. And I'm debt free. Amen.

    >
    > Yes, but the question is this. Telling us honestly, if you knew the
    > financial outcome in advance and you saw that car coming at you again,
    > would you do you level best to avoid the accident or would you just close
    > your eyes and wait for it to happen? I can't imagine that money is much

    of
    > a substitute if you've been put into a wheelchair.
    >
    > ------
    > Dave Casey - Realtor
    > www.LasVegasHomesDirect.com
    > [email protected]


    Dave,

    No way I'd take the money up front to repeat that stunt. It all worked out
    nicely in the end, but it was no fun at all, getting there. Lots of pain
    and suffering. There aren't words to describe what it was like riding in
    that ambulance strapped to a hard wooden board and absorbing every little
    bump in the road with a broken back, hip, pelvis and ankle. And that was
    just a warmup for the ER experience.

    Bob C.
     
  16. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > warren wrote:
    > > > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > > > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell

    him
    > > > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > > > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > > > enhance one's life, etc.

    >
    > > No one enters racing if they think too much about crashing. If you
    > > become to afraid of crashing, it's time to quit. I did.
    > > So there is an element of denial in all this. Taking a chance on
    > > something that MIGHT injure you is not the same as taking $10,000 for a
    > > sure thing.
    > > But I can't live here in New York City thinking about the next
    > > terrorist threat, and folks in S.F. can't be waiting for the big one,
    > > though we know both of these things may happen.
    > > I guess the somewhat unsatisfactory answer is you do it because you
    > > want to, and I'll worry about the consequences when they happen.

    >
    > IMO, bicycling on (most) roads with cars isn't dangerous, at least not
    > enough more dangerous than driving on roads with cars to warrant
    > worrying about it or stopping. It's also rather less dangerous than
    > obesity or poor condition induced by lack of exercise.
    >
    > Bicycle racing is potentially dangerous. OTOH, the worst injury I've
    > seen up close was at a CX race due to a wheel that folded up on flat
    > ground 20 yards before the finish line - no bad cornering, no high
    > speed, no getting taken out by squirrels, etc. You never know.
    >
    > What is really dangerous is sitting on your butt and never doing
    > anything (cycling, or whatever) because you are afraid something bad
    > might happen. IMHO. Like your point about NYC and SF.


    I couldn't agree more!

    Bob C.
     
  17. ojo

    ojo Guest

    $10,000 to pull an Abdu?
    How is this related to the "Is cycling 'dangerous'? subject line.
    One thing I'm NOT worried about when I ride is that I'm going to
    DELIBERATELY crash. If I was inclined to do that, ANY activity would be
    dangerous.
    Diving: $10K to do a cutaway INTO the platform.
    Running: $10K to do a face plant into the sidewalk.
    NASCAR: $10K to hit the wall at 200+mph
    Cooking: $10K to plunge my hand into a boiling pot, grab a scalding cookie
    tray...........................??????????????
    Most of us ride with the intent of avoiding injury, avoiding dangerous
    roads, always alert to avoid trouble, even while sprinting.
    When I race I don't pay the entry fee to be injured, but if I do crash and
    need it, I will get whatever money I need to cover my injuries. It's called
    health insurance, and like most insurance, the premiums I pay are based on
    the supposition that I have a vested interest in AVOIDING the pain and
    suffering of injury.
    AND..........IF I DID have $10K to spend for purely cosmetic improvements,
    since I am an active cyclist, a new bike would improve my looks a lot more
    than a face lift, or tummy tuck or liposuction.



    warren <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:240820041949173840%[email protected]
    > A very successful bike racer in his 60's said this to me today as we
    > discussed the relative dangers of cycling. Some of his friends tell him
    > that cycling is dangerous, training on roads with cars should be
    > avoided, as is having optional, but potentially dangerous surgery to
    > enhance one's life, etc.
    >
    > On occasion he asks a person how they would feel about getting on a
    > bike, doing an all out sprint to say, 35mph, and then throwing
    > themselves over the bars and onto the ground, and would they do it for
    > $10,000?
    >
    > No one has yet said they would, yet bike racers pay an entry fee 20-50
    > times a year with the understanding that exactly this scenario could
    > occur except they will not get $10,000 for it. So what is the real
    > danger, and what causes us to draw the line in a different place for
    > different scenarios?
    >
    > -WG
     
  18. Donald Munro

    Donald Munro Guest

    ojo wrote:

    > $10,000 to pull an Abdu?
    > How is this related to the "Is cycling 'dangerous'? subject line.
    > One thing I'm NOT worried about when I ride is that I'm going to
    > DELIBERATELY crash. If I was inclined to do that, ANY activity would be
    > dangerous.


    I though rbr had already concluded that deliberately crashing was a good
    way to increase your adrenaline count and thereby go on to win your race.
     
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