when is the best time to load up on protein?

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by Mike_Rides_Red, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Mike_Rides_Red

    Mike_Rides_Red New Member

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    I normally eat tons of carbs before a ride and after i load up on protein. Is this the right way of doing it? When should you load up on protein?
     
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  2. steve007

    steve007 New Member

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    Before a ride I try to keep food intake to a minimum. Like maybe a protein drink and a banana or a little pasta with chopped egg. After a ride I eat alot of carbs within 30-60 mins of finishing my ride - the 2 hours after a ride is the best time to restock glycogen stores. Later I have maybe some chicken, brown rice and salad.

    Actually tonight I was a bit naughty - I had 2 rare steaks(rare is very good for you) with salad and baked potatoe. But i have an excuse - I've covered almost 400 miles this week.

    Cant imagine what I would be like in a tour - My lower back is aching. Guess i just need a massage. Although if i was a tour rider i would insist on a lady masseur..!
     
  3. nasr

    nasr New Member

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    :rolleyes: How can I become a better bike rider?
     
  4. nasr

    nasr New Member

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    Last week, I ran 20miles from my school to the mall located 30minutes from where I live if by car.
     
  5. KikoSanchez

    KikoSanchez New Member

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    Get your protein in right after your ride, in the form of a supplement. I take whey protein right after each ride. After hard exercise is when your body needs it the most.
     
  6. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    there's no need to use protein supplements, either post ride or at all. additionally, protein requirements even for the highest demand use -- extreme exercise (the TdF) the protein requirements can easily be met by a normal mixed diet, and in most western countries we already exceed this figure. after exercise the most important thing to take in is carbohydrates ~ 1.0 to 1.5 g/kg body mass, and fluid with sodium in.

    more details, i think, in this thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/t165731.html

    ric
     
  7. menglish6

    menglish6 New Member

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    So I have a quick question, I'm guessing ricstern, our resident expert on all things physiology, would be in the best position to answer.

    I can intuitively see why taking protein suppliments during weightlifting is probably unnecessary. The actual act of lifting doesn't burn enough calories for your body to begin breaking down protein for energy, and most diets include enough (or more) protein to cover the "rebuilding" that is important to lifting.

    Long and hard cardio work does however require more calories than your body is able to provide solely from carbs, and I've read that one burns anywhere from 5-10% of their calories from protein in these cases. First of all, the implication here is that this protein came directly from your muscles. Is this the case? Is there some other protein store that your body can call upon?
    Next, does ingesting protein shortly before a ride provide your body with extra protein that will be utilized before that which is stored in your muscles? I.e. if i eat some turkey shortly before a ride will my body be able to get it's extra little bit of energy from the protein that would in theory be floating around in my blood from the turkey? Or will it still pull directly from my muscles (or whatever other store it has)?

    I guess the point of these questions being, is there a way to avoid or mitigate the muscle loss that accompanies extended cardio work...
     
  8. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    bit late here... however, carbohydrate intake spares protein. normal dietary protein intake (assuming a normal diet,where weight is maintained, including vegetarian) is perfectly fine. most people over consume protein like it's going out of fashion

    ric
     
  9. menglish6

    menglish6 New Member

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    After a bit of reading it appears that protein really only comes into play significantly if you run out of other energy stores, hence your point about carbohydrate intake sparing protein. (question: is the breakdown of carbs the fastest source of energy? I know breaking down fat begins to be too slow at high intensity...how does the breakdown of carbs and protein compare?)

    Interestingly I found some studies that had taken place at UT that found that a ratio of 4:1 carb to protein in a sports drink aided performance due to the fact that the protein boosted insulin production slightly more than carbs alone were capable of. Is this still (or was it ever) the accepted state of things? The research looked like it was from 2001, so...
     
  10. dpvan

    dpvan New Member

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    Sorry, I have to disagree on this point. Any serious weightlifter/bodybuilder consumes lots of protein - 1-2 grams per pound of bodyweight per day. This is Weightlifting 101.

    Serious weightlifting tears down muscles and lots of protein is necessary to rebuild and grow those muscles. The general idea is that you want to make certain that whenever your muscles are inclined to grow, they have ample protein available to do so.

    Serious weightlifting also burns a lot of calories. It's not aerobic, but it's probably the most difficult anaerobic exercise most people will ever do. A full-out weight workout means pushing your muscles to failure at least a dozen times during 60-90 minutes. Failure means that if someone offered you a million dollars to push the bar through one more repetition, you couldn't even think of doing it.

    This is a lot different than cycling, training for cycling, etc.
     
  11. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    it's been repeatedly shown that this isn't the case, and that these recommendations seriously overshoot the upper limit of protein intake. It's a weightlifting myth

    further, it has been shown that the greatest need for protein is actually for extreme endurance events such as the TdF, and these needs can be met by a normal mixed diet.

    ric
     
  12. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    carbs are the preferred source of energy during exercise

    it wasn't ever. i can't recall the exact reason, but either the study didn't pass muster and become peer reviewed or there was some protocol errors or something.

    even though protein does increase insulin. if you take in 1.2 g of CHO per kg body mass after exercise, adding protein doesn't increase glycogen storage any further (see Jentjens et al, 2001)

    ric
     
  13. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Your riding sounds quite impressive. Congratulations on the 400 inside of a week.

    If I may, I believe you have your nutritional intake a bit in reverse. You seem to prefer your protein before the ride and your carbohydrates after. If this is working for you then so be it. But... you might want to try fueling before the ride, (carbohydrates) and rebuilding the damaged tissue after the ride, (proteins). Personally, I'd go a bit light on the proteins. Most people, (assuming you live in a develoed nation) get significantly more than enough protein through their normal diet. The excess is just wasted as it's excreted in the urine or turned to fat. Your body doesn't produce energy from protein, it's only a rebuilding nutrient. Other posts here, most notably those by ricstern are, based on what I've read, dead-on accurate with the current knowledge and advice provided by most of the more prominent nutritionists.

    In short...
    · Carbohydrates = Fuel
    · Proteins = Rebuilding (ingest sparingly)

    And for what it's worth; steak isn't good for you no matter how it's prepared.

    :)
     
  14. dpvan

    dpvan New Member

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    Ric - With due respect, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to weightlifting and protein consumption.

    I am a serious weightlifter and have been for several years. During that time, I've worked out with the following types of weightlifters:

    - Professional Bodybuilders
    - NFL Linemen
    - Professional, College and HS Strength and Conditioning Coaches
    - Successful Competitive Powerlifters

    I've spoken with members of each of these groups about appropriate diet for serious weightlifting. The first thing that every single one of them mentioned was a high level of protein consumption. As I mentioned previously, the standard is 1-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily.

    Now, I'm sure that you know more than people who lift weights for a living, but when dozens of the most muscular and strongest guys I've ever talk with say that protein consumption is the answer, I'm going to listen to them.

    As I recall from previous posts, you're big into debunking "myths". I seem to recall that you contend that Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael are promoting a myth when they say that cyclists can benefit from weightlifting. Now you're saying that every professional bodybuilder on the planet is promoting a myth when he says you need to eat a lot of protein in order to build muscle.
     
  15. dpvan

    dpvan New Member

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    Ric - With due respect, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to weightlifting and protein consumption.

    I am a serious weightlifter and have been for several years. During that time, I've worked out with the following types of weightlifters:

    - Professional Bodybuilders
    - NFL Linemen
    - Professional, College and HS Strength and Conditioning Coaches
    - Successful Competitive Powerlifters

    I've spoken with members of each of these groups about appropriate diet for serious weightlifting. The first thing that every single one of them mentioned was high protein consumption. As I mentioned previously, the standard is 1-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight daily.

    Now, I'm sure that you know more than people who lift weights for a living, but when dozens of the most muscular and strongest guys I've ever talked with say that protein consumption is the answer, I'm going to listen to them.

    As I recall from previous posts, you're big into debunking "myths". I seem to recall that you contend that Lance Armstrong and Chris Carmichael are promoting a myth when they say that cyclists can benefit from weightlifting. Now you're saying that every professional bodybuilder on the planet is promoting a myth when he says you need to eat a lot of protein in order to build muscle.
     
  16. Duckwah

    Duckwah New Member

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    The fact that weightlifters eat a lot of protein doesn't necessarily mean their bodies are using it all. These guys eat a lot of protein because they are afraid that they may not be getting enough.

    I doubt if anyone has ever taken a group of bodybuilders and then gradually reduced their protein intake until they started to lose muscle to determine the exact amount of protein required to maintain a given bodyweight under high intensity training.

    Serious weight training shouldn't include multiple bouts of exercise to failure, it risks injury and is far less conducive to strength gains than multiple sets of submaximal weights. It is quite possible to become extremely strong without ever going to failure.

    Training to failure is great for hypertrophy but very poor for strength.
     
  17. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    seriously, you won't find any evidence to support yours/weightlifters ideas. whereas, you will find lots of supporting evidence for what i wrote.




    just because they're good at lifting weights, doesn't mean they know anything about physiology and nutrition.


    when dozens of muscular and strong people take drugs for increased performance, do you follow them?


    yes.

    ric
     
  18. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Obviously, you have some information provided to you by professionals who lift a lot of weights with the intention of building a lot of lean mass. This certainly gives you some room to talk and some reason for me to listen. Having said that, I still must disagree with the main-stream thoughts on protein intake. I don't want to appear to be jumping in when you already have a few people suggesting that the information provided to these athletes may be misleading but it seems highly probable that such is the case. The need for protein has been over-stated for decades but it would seem that the trend has finally been put to the test and what is being discovered contrasts sharply with what most of us were told and what most coaches, trainers and athletes have been told.

    Even a look at Arnold Swarzenegger's book, Arnold's Body Building for Men shows Arnold's personal recommendation to be, "about one gram of protein for every two pounds of body weight."

    Protein has simply been over-sold to the public for so long that attempts to correct the misleading information which has proliferated for so long is about as easy as convincing a man to change his religion. If these athletes would like to put the newer theories to the test, they should gradually reduce their protein intake and have their urine checked. When they stop excreting the excess protein and the by-products in their urine, they've probably reached a balance of protein intake to protein use. Not being a doctor, this is more or less a guess based on the knowledge that the body will expel most of the protein not used within a few hours of digestion.
     
  19. BiochemGuy

    BiochemGuy New Member

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    Weightlifting myth? Studies done by Peter Lemon and Mark Tarnopolsky have shown the protein needs for bodybuilders to be 1.8g/kg of bodyweight. Or about .8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. Most bodybuilders just round that up to 1 gram of protein per pound.
     
  20. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    not sure, maybe you have reading issues ;-) the poster i was responding to was suggesting 2 grams per pound of body weight.

    and, all the evidence shows that the TdF requires the highest protein intake at ~2 g/kg body mass.

    nonetheless, 2g/kg body mass can be met by a normal diet without supplementation

    ric
     
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