When Science has not the answer ??

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Rod, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. Rod

    Rod Guest

    Well can anyone really tell me, where one turns to?

    Rod.
     
    Tags:


  2. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Rod" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:%[email protected]
    > server.bigpond.net.au...
    > > Well can anyone really tell me, where one turns to?
    > >
    > > Rod.
    >
    >
    > Science is at its most interesting when it has only questions.
    >
    > --Rich

    It is also at its most harmless. Is that a helpful answer? Eat ginseng and thrive!
     
  3. sxpam

    sxpam Guest

    This guy asked a fair question, Rich.

    Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that doesn't
    resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the innocents.

    That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would refrain
    from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?

    Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?

    If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs and
    treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have more
    interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.

    Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could write
    something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.

    That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed the
    need in here.

    Mike
     
  4. <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > This guy asked a fair question, Rich.
    >
    > Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that doesn't
    > resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the innocents.
    >
    > That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would
    > refrain from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?
    >
    > Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?

    What situation? No "situation" has been described.

    >
    > If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs and
    > treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have more
    > interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.

    Who said the questioner has a mortal prognosis. Maybe he's just frustrated by his jock itch.

    >
    > Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could
    > write something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.
    >

    I am always willing to politely give information when asked for it. But what "information" really
    asked for here? Jan will scream "CHECK THE TEETH!" and Dave will try to turn the questioner into
    an MLM downline ginseng salesman, but nobody could give a truly useful, compassionate answer to
    this post.

    > That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed
    > the need in here.
    >
    >
    > Mike

    Lighten up, Mike. The guy made a subtle slur on science. He gave no detail of what questions he
    believes science has failed to answer, and thus is not really seeking legitimate advice. He just
    wants to repeat that popular altie implication that if science does not have the answers to
    everything, then perhaps they have the answers to nothing. My answer was not flippant. It reiterates
    that science is a dynamic process and there is joy in exploring the as yet undiscovered nature of
    the universe.

    --Rich
     
  5. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > This guy asked a fair question, Rich.
    > >
    > > Here we are in an alt discussion group and every unusual, strange and bizarre option that
    > > doesn't resonate with common medical practice gets pounded with the defense of saving the
    > > innocents.
    > >
    > > That technique is exercised in here constantly, so if there is any chance that people would
    > > refrain from the antagonism and spiteful arguments, then do that here, would you?
    > >
    > > Respectfully answer this guy's question. What would you people do if you were in that situation?
    >
    > What situation? No "situation" has been described.
    >
    > >
    > > If you ever knew someone who was given a solid 6 month prognosis, but still told to take drugs
    > > and treatments that drained the inheritance to follow and reduced quality of life, you may have
    > > more interest in this answer that would put you on a path of discovery.
    >
    > Who said the questioner has a mortal prognosis. Maybe he's just frustrated by his jock itch.
    >
    > >
    > > Please....refrain from giving up quips and antagonistic statements. Undoubtedly someone could
    > > write something you disagree with. Give some considerate information or just let this one go.
    > >
    >
    > I am always willing to politely give information when asked for it. But
    what
    > "information" really asked for here? Jan will scream "CHECK THE TEETH!"
    and
    > Dave will try to turn the questioner into an MLM downline ginseng
    salesman,
    > but nobody could give a truly useful, compassionate answer to this post.
    >
    > > That's not too much to ask after all the multitude of arguments that have been and will yet feed
    > > the need in here.
    > >
    > >
    > > Mike
    >
    > Lighten up, Mike. The guy made a subtle slur on science. He gave no detail of what questions he
    > believes science has failed to answer, and thus is
    not
    > really seeking legitimate advice. He just wants to repeat that popular
    altie
    > implication that if science does not have the answers to everything, then perhaps they have the
    > answers to nothing. My answer was not flippant. It reiterates that science is a dynamic process
    > and there is joy in exploring the as yet undiscovered nature of the universe.
    >
    > --Rich

    I know there must be a pony in here somwhere!
     
  6. Bronsing

    Bronsing Guest

    yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Rich Shewmaker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Its true, medical science knows 'nuts' as far as mankind sickness is concern. It is only with the
    > help from modern technology, that medical science has comes this far.

    Oh, bullocks. Medical technology is an integral part of the medical practice. Saying that it's the
    technology, not the science is denying the science in technology.

    >
    > People overhere may not agree with my statement.

    Probably not, since it's a bullshit statment.

    >
    > For those who disagree, Okay!! any medical people around? pls enlighten us on how a common sore-
    > throat problem comeabout?

    Why? Can't read a medical text for yourself?

    >
    > If any medical people could explained the logic on how a sore-throat comeabout, I'll tell you
    > 'man, medical science is seriously on the way in finding a comprehensive cure for cancer.

    Understanding how a sore throat comes about (I take it that that's what you mean with your
    sentence) has little to do with understanding cancer. An expert on viruses such as yourself should
    understand that.

    >
    > Well, as what it is now, medical science is still searching for cure on cancer.

    For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable, but science is always looking for
    better ways. But, please show me objective evidence that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per
    group will do, alpha=0.05, more than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
    variation.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)
     
  7. Yansimon52

    Yansimon52 Guest

    "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    (snip)
    > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

    Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning, 'cut
    and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating a cancer.

    Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

    That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating cancer.

    but science
    > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective evidence that you can cure
    > cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05, more than 15% improvement above the placebo
    > group and corrected for variation.

    We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
    or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
    full life as

    science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

    Danny Yang

    An Asian Holistic Physician cum Herbalist
    >
    > --
    >
    > Robert Bronsing
    >
    > Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
    > and pence
    >
    > (R. Waters)
     
  8. Bronsing

    Bronsing Guest

    yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >
    > (snip)
    > > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
    >
    > Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
    > 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating
    > a cancer.

    Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

    >
    > Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?

    Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about Artemissia annua? Oh,
    and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of curare? What do you think the source for
    vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
    commenting on it.

    >
    > That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in
    > treating cancer.

    No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure] in treating cancer is
    because not all cancers are created equal, the cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the
    behaviour of the cells in the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
    cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

    > but science
    > > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective
    evidence
    > > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,
    more
    > > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
    variation.
    >
    > We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
    > or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
    > full life as

    > science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

    Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major journal.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)
     
  9. Yansimon52

    Yansimon52 Guest

    "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > >
    > > (snip)
    > > > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
    > >
    > > Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
    > > 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on treating
    > > a cancer.
    >
    > Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

    Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy, are
    just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!
    >
    >
    > >
    > > Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?
    >
    > Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about Artemissia annua? Oh,
    > and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of curare? What do you think the source for
    > vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science
    > before commenting on it.

    Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program, but, that doean't
    play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by the sickness. It is
    after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut and paste' method of
    surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and when the cancer is in
    control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous organ and helping
    in its functioning. In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in
    control. Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
    considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer sickness
    on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that, natural herbs
    can easily substitute those herbal drugs.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
    > > cancer.
    >
    > No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure] in treating cancer is
    > because not all cancers are created equal,

    The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
    eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.

    > cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the cells in the cancer, also when
    > metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour.
    > Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.

    To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
    immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..
    >
    >
    > > but science
    > > > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective
    > evidence
    > > > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,
    > more
    > > > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
    > variation.
    > >
    > > We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
    > > or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a
    > > full life as

    > > science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.
    >
    > Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
    > journal.

    Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem, then,
    you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout. This sort of idealogy appply
    to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must understand the root of the problem first,
    then you are able to rectify its fault.

    You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
    promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Robert Bronsing
    >
    > Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
    > and pence
    >
    > (R. Waters)
     
  10. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On 13 Nov 2003 23:42:28 -0800, [email protected] (yansimon52)
    wrote:

    >To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
    >immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

    Perception creates its own reality.

    Aloha,

    Rich
    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance.
     
  11. Bronsing

    Bronsing Guest

    yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > (snip)
    > > > > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
    > > >
    > > > Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
    > > > 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on
    > > > treating a cancer.
    > >
    > > Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with
    anti-biotics.
    >
    > Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy,
    > are just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!

    Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
    germ/bad germ" principle.

    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?
    > >
    > > Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What
    about
    > > Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear
    of
    > > curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel?
    > > Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before commenting on it.
    >
    > Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program,

    Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.

    > but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by the
    > sickness. It is after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut and
    > paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and when the
    > cancer is in control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous
    > organ and helping in its functioning.

    I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression on me that you think
    that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not in wide spread use as a primary cancer
    treatment. Is that correct? If so, you don't know your herbs.

    > In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.

    How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?

    > Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
    > considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
    > sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
    > natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

    NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory. The
    stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff. It
    is the natural stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is
    standardized. That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you
    don't know much about cancer or herbs.

    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
    > > > cancer.
    > >
    > > No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"
    [cure]
    > > in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,
    >
    >
    > The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
    > eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.

    BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer patients must be
    administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive appropriate treatment, like in the case of
    bonemarrow transplant.

    >
    > > cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the
    cells in
    > > the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part
    > > dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.
    >
    > To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
    > immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

    And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might be serious. Please, learn
    some basic biochem and learn to understand what is known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is an
    interesting topic.

    > >
    > >
    > > > but science
    > > > > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective
    > > evidence
    > > > > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,
    alpha=0.05,
    > > more
    > > > > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
    > > variation.
    > > >
    > > > We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing this
    > > > or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live
    > > > a full life as

    > > > science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.
    > >
    > > Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
    > > journal.
    >
    > Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem,
    > then, you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout.

    Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal. If
    you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle in a
    large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.

    > This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must understand
    > the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.

    Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of ras
    oncogenes going out of control. An introductory course on biochem will preovide you with enough
    background in DNA and immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

    >
    > You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
    > promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.

    Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll be looking in the
    literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24 months, so the first
    paper could be out in 36. I'll be waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    Can't you see?
    It all makes perfect sense,
    expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

    (R. Waters)
     
  12. Yansimon52

    Yansimon52 Guest

    "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > (snip)
    > > > > > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
    > > > >
    > > > > Pretty well treatable??? A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
    > > > > 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad germ method) on
    > > > > treating a cancer.
    > > >
    > > > Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with
    > anti-biotics.
    > >
    > > Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with radiation or chemotherapy,
    > > are just part of the treatment regiment in a cancer treatment program!
    >
    > Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
    > germ/bad germ" principle.

    The good germ killing bad germ treatment concept is part of medical science (or others ie. TCM
    treatment method on infectious sickness) treat5ment regiment on cancer treatment. Of course, beside
    this good germ/bad germ tackled by powerful antibiotics, there are other method such as, 'burning
    method' thru chemotherapy or radiation and lastly, when thing got out of hand, usually, in the very
    late stage, immediate surgery (thru the 'cut and paste') need apply. Who do not know about this sort
    very direct treatment method by medical science.It is easy to understand it, by basing on simple
    logic lah!! The question here is, with all these excutioning of treatment method by medical science,
    does medical science REALLY understood the root of the problem that caused cancer.

    I doubt so. cause, if they )MS) are so sure, they would had by now, got a cure to treat any sort of
    cancer problem. They are still searching for a comprehensive cure for cancer.

    Just for your info, in holistic healing, we emphasis alot on the state of the purity blood system,
    cause, to stay in good health, one must guard jeaously the purity of your blood system to a degree
    where even, the taste of of your blood is tasteless, where in normal case, it is usually saltish.

    >
    >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical science capable of?
    > > >
    > > > Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What
    > about
    > > > Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear
    > of
    > > > curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is? How'bout paclitaxel?
    > > > Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before commenting on it.
    > >
    > > Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer treatment program,
    >
    > Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.
    >
    > > but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at that time, in suppressing damages caused by
    > > the sickness. It is after those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut
    > > and paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of applying antibiotics and
    > > when the cancer is in control, then, herbal drugs are then used to revigorate that particular
    > > cancerous organ and helping in its functioning.
    >
    > I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression on me that you think
    > that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not in wide spread use as a primary cancer
    > treatment. Is that correct? If so, you don't know your herbs.

    Treating cancer by medical science is a systemic process. Firstly, thru burning(chemo or radiation)
    and applying powerful antibiotics are the first treatment regiment to suppress the exodus of
    cancerous T-cells. When thing settle down, then, you are talking about having those herbal drug
    (with their respective minierals) to help the proper functioning of that particular inffected organ.
    You see, it is a well known fact, that different organ functioning depend on different minerals to
    get started. So the respective minerals/herbal drug (from different herbal plant) were used to help
    the proper functioning of that infected cancerous organ at the recuperating period.
    >
    >
    > > In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.
    >
    > How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?

    I am the Authority on herbal plant such as, my recent discovery in separating these herbal plants
    into 2 categories, either as 'orthodox' or 'unorthodox' category. Since, cancer is an 'orthodox
    sickness' it should be treated with 'orthodox herbs', herbs that depend alot of sunlight for
    their growth.

    I hope you what I am saying.
    >
    >
    > > Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
    > > considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
    > > sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
    > > natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.
    >
    > NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory. The
    > stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff.
    > It is the natural stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is
    > standardized. That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you
    > don't know much about cancer or herbs.

    What do you really know about herbs? Yes, you are just talking about those herbal plants active
    principle, that's all. You don't even know or aware of that, almost all temperate herbs come with
    alot of rich minerals as compared to tropical herbal plants that come with alot of 'rich enzymes'.
    Why is it so?

    You don't even know that, one must not die die use antibiotic, just to 'flush away' germs 'swimming'
    within your blood system, of course, there are other alternatives to antibiotic, to do the same job.
    This ignorant attitude by medical science in abusing the use on antibiotic has up-to-date,
    contributed to the recent 'antibiotic resistant' cases, across the globe. Do you agree with that?

    >
    >
    >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a comprehensive in treating
    > > > > cancer.
    > > >
    > > > No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"
    > [cure]
    > > > in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,
    > >
    > >
    > > The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the weakness of your immune system,
    > > eventhough, it occur in various part of your body's organ.
    >
    > BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer patients must be
    > administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive appropriate treatment, like in the case
    > of bonemarrow transplant.

    >
    > >
    > > > cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the
    > cells in
    > > > the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g. cytostatics is in part
    > > > dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an immensly complex process.
    > >
    > > To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its about the strength of your
    > > immune system that dictate whether it can happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..
    >
    > And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might be serious. Please,
    > learn some basic biochem and learn to understand what is known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is
    > an interesting topic.

    >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > but science
    > > > > > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective
    > evidence
    > > > > > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,
    > alpha=0.05, more
    > > > > > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for
    > variation.
    > > > >
    > > > > We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to patient that, by doing
    > > > > this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come back to haunt you again. Not only that, you
    > > > > can live a full life as

    > > > > science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.
    > > >
    > > > Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and publish it in a major
    > > > journal.
    > >
    > > Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a simple sore-throat problem,
    > > then, you are on the right track in understanding on how a cancer comeabout.
    >
    > Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal. If
    > you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle in a
    > large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.

    Ironically, holistic healing is about looking at the cause of the sickness on the whole. WE search
    for the 'end-product' just like a mechanic looking on the health of the engine is by looking at
    those 'burnt carbon's tar' in a spark plug. Whether there are 'oil' sign of leakage from broken
    piston's ring, whitish tar, sign of too much petrol proportion, something to do with proper
    functioning of the carburettor and so on.
    >
    >
    > > This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must
    > > understand the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.
    >
    > Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of ras
    > oncogenes going out of control. An introductory course on biochem will preovide you with enough
    > background in DNA and immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

    As alternative healer, we don't work with moodern technology's eletronic equipments. To see the
    state on one's health, we look for clues ie. its end product such as, urine, appetite and excretas.
    As I would like to say, alternative healer don't make money, they were not so recognised offically,
    cause, they don't come with facts.

    In some cases where, treating some airborne viruses, what we need to do is, to identify the group's
    leader (head of those clusters of airborne viruses) and kill it by applying the element of fire. How
    to put this sort of tretment in paper.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS) cannot
    > > promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.
    >
    > Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll be looking in the
    > literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24 months, so the first
    > paper could be out in 36. I'll be waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

    Treating orthodox sicknesses ie. cancer is easily treatable as compared in treating modern days
    mostly virus derived sickness ie. hepatitis or aids.Treating 'unorthodox sickness' is more
    challenging. Why I say that?

    You see, to treat a cough problem, there are hundred of herbal plants that can treat coughing
    problem. In other word, you see one, you see all, what is so interesting about it. In the case in
    treating 'unorthodox sicknesses', there are only a handful of unorthodox herbal plants that can do
    the job. Not only that, its preparation is also, very unusual, different from the preparation on
    temperate herbs where, they normally dried it, under the Sun.

    If, you are in the stage of writing a medical journal, and if, you think that, my kind of work can
    contribute to your work, I'll be glad to assist you on that.

    Have a nice day, nice talking to you.

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Robert Bronsing
    >
    > Can't you see? It all makes perfect sense, expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings
    > and pence
    >
    > (R. Waters)
     
  13. "yansimon52" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > yansimon52 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > "Bronsing" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > >

    > > Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was treated using the "good
    > > germ/bad germ" principle.
    >
    > The good germ killing bad germ treatment concept is part of medical science (or others ie. TCM
    > treatment method on infectious sickness) treat5ment regiment on cancer treatment.

    Learn about medical science and treatment regimens before opening you yap about things you so
    blatantly obvious don't understand.

    > Of course, beside this good germ/bad germ tackled by powerful antibiotics, there are other method
    > such as, 'burning method' thru chemotherapy or radiation and lastly, when thing got out of hand,
    > usually, in the very late stage, immediate surgery (thru the 'cut and paste') need apply.

    Yes, radiation therapy, chemo therapy and surgery are indeed applied and with great success in some
    cancers. Surgery and chemo can be curative as evidenced by clinical research, it also can be
    palliative. Look in pubmed if you want to see studies on epidemiology of cancer. I agree it's not an
    ideal mode of therapy and I agree that there great downsides to all three of them. But at least it
    works and that it works can be reproducibly shown in both large patient groups as well as
    mechanistic laboratory studies. What I demand of you, if you claim to be able to cure cancer: show
    it with reproducible, good quality studies. If your regimen is as powerful as claim it to be, show
    it. Put up or shut up.

    > Who do not know about this sort very direct treatment method by medical science.It is easy to
    > understand it, by basing on simple logic lah!!

    Quit backpaddling. I never denied that chemo, surgery and radiation are commonly used as cerative
    treatment in many cancers. I deny that AB's are an integral part of oncology treatment.

    > The question here is, with all these excutioning of treatment method by medical science, does
    > medical science REALLY understood the root of the problem that caused cancer.

    Not really, no. That's why there so much research going on in oncology both basic research as well
    as applied clinical research to introduce the fundamental concepts that were unravelled in the lab.
    Science is, will always be and always has been a very tedious process.

    >
    > I doubt so. cause, if they )MS) are so sure, they would had by now, got a cure to treat any sort
    > of cancer problem. They are still searching for a comprehensive cure for cancer.

    From this it seems that you think that all cancers are somehow alike. Well, most of the evidence is
    that most cancers are unique in themselves and are often difficult to compare. Not so much because
    the mechanism of carcinogenesis will be so different between cancer-types, but the cells that
    constitute the tumours can be so different in behaviour, have different vulnerabilities and need
    different appraoches to combat the tumour and leave as much as possible of the healthy tissue
    intact. That's an important reason why some cancers are more easily treated than others and why some
    cancers can be cured in the vast majority of cases and other can't be cured in the vast majority of
    cases. So, yeah, "the" cure for cancer isn't there and I'm actually skeptical that such a common
    cure will be found in the near future but then again, I don't claim to be a cancer expert.

    >
    > Just for your info, in holistic healing, we emphasis alot on the state of the purity blood system,

    "purity of blood system" What is "purity of bloodsystem"! It's a non-term, pseudo scientific BS to
    make it attractive to the gullible, like Jan and Carole. A complex matrix like blood can't be
    regarded as "pure" in any practical sense of the word.

    > cause, to stay in good health, one must guard jeaously the purity of your blood system to a degree
    > where even, the taste of of your blood is tasteless, where in normal case, it is usually saltish.

    Yeah, and it should be salty; it contains 9 grams of sodium chloride woth of salts per liter!

    > > I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the
    impression
    > > on me that you think that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are
    not
    > > in wide spread use as a primary cancer treatment. Is that correct? If
    so,
    > > you don't know your herbs.
    >
    > Treating cancer by medical science is a systemic process.

    Yeah, cancer itself is a systemic process but I get the impression that your notion of the word
    "systemic" may be different from mine. To me systemic is pretty much as opposed to local or topical.

    > Firstly, thru burning(chemo or radiation) and applying powerful antibiotics are

    There you go with your AB again....

    > the first treatment regiment to suppress the exodus of cancerous T-cells.

    Cancerous T-cells...are you talking about cutaneous T-cell lymphoma specificly? Do you mean
    peripheral T-cell lymphoma? What? Be specific.

    > When thing settle down, then, you are talking about having those herbal drug (with their
    > respective minierals) to help the proper functioning of that particular inffected organ.

    Bullshit. Paclitaxel comes form taxus brevifolia and both vinblastine and vincrystin come from Vinca
    spp. which are periwinkle plants. And these are only exaples, there are far more plants that provide
    anti-cancer agents, anti-astma treatments etc.The notion that medical or pharmaceutical science is
    not interested in plants, animals, mineral and other sources besides the laboratory is simply false.
    And what do you mean with the respective minerals of herbal drugs?

    > You see, it is a well known fact, that different organ functioning depend on different minerals to
    > get started. So the respective minerals/herbal drug (from different herbal plant) were used to
    > help the proper functioning of that infected cancerous organ at the recuperating period.

    This is so shockingly filled with a kinds of excrement running through your teath it's not worth
    going into.

    > >
    > >
    > > > In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when thing are in control.
    > >
    > > How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I mentioned, do you?
    >
    > I am the Authority on herbal plant such as, my recent discovery in separating these herbal plants
    > into 2 categories, either as 'orthodox' or 'unorthodox' category.

    Oh yeah, you are an authority on herbaldrugs yet you don't know the first thing about how herbs in
    the real world are used. LOL!

    > Since, cancer is an 'orthodox sickness' it should be treated with 'orthodox herbs', herbs that
    > depend alot of sunlight for their growth.
    >
    > I hope you what I am saying.

    Yeah, and a prescription of Haldol(r) has been known to help in some of the cases where people
    suffered from magical thinking along with a touch of megalomania.

    > >
    > >
    > > > Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are
    > > > considered as very straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the cancer
    > > > sickness on-hold. What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber that,
    > > > natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.
    > >
    > > NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not synthesized in a laboratory.
    > > The stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in many cases, the exact same compound as the natural
    > > stuff. It is the natu
    ral
    > > stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the formulation is standardized.
    > > That means that it is known what is used in what quantity. It is obvious that you don't know
    > > much about cancer or
    herbs.
    >
    > What do you really know about herbs? Yes, you are just talking about those herbal plants active
    > principle, that's all.

    Well, that's exactly what is important about these plants if you're interested in making as simple a
    formulation as you can to treat illness. There are real dangers associated with taking complex
    herbals, especially if you're on other medication too or happen to be suseptible to one or more of
    the plant's constituents.

    > You don't even know or aware of that, almost all temperate herbs come with alot of rich minerals
    > as compared to tropical herbal plants that come with alot of 'rich enzymes'. Why is it so?

    Because what you're saying is not in this reality but in some other reality, unforeseen by either
    the many worlds interpretation of QM and the far out implications of relativistic effects at the
    event horizon of the central black hole that fills your brain?

    >
    > You don't even know that, one must not die die use antibiotic, just to 'flush away' germs
    > 'swimming' within your blood system, of course, there are other alternatives to antibiotic, to do
    > the same job.

    I'm sorry, but obviously the concept of anti-biotics is totally lost on you. They don't "flush out"
    germs, they kill germs if and when used appropriately. And, luckily, most germs donot swin around in
    the blood so also what germs do and they are most commonly found is totally lost on you. The thought
    of people actually turning to the likes of you for any kind of treatment is quite frightning.

    > This ignorant attitude by medical science in abusing the use on antibiotic has up-to-date,
    > contributed to the recent 'antibiotic resistant' cases, across the globe. Do you agree with that?

    This last part I must agree with. Also in farming far too many AB's have been used (and are still
    used in some cases) incorrectly and in many countries, including the U.S. and Europe, AB's have long
    been used incorrectly in medicine leading to multiple resistant strains, Luckily, there are many
    approaches under investigation like e.g. peptidomimetics, but these alternative aren't here yet.

    > > Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an international journal.
    > > If you can put your money where your mouth is, it should be easy enough to show this principle
    > > in a large patient base. I won't be holding my breath, though.
    >
    > Ironically, holistic healing is about looking at the cause of the sickness on the whole. WE search
    > for the 'end-product' just like a mechanic looking on the health of the engine is by looking at
    > those 'burnt carbon's tar' in a spark plug. Whether there are 'oil' sign of leakage from broken
    > piston's ring, whitish tar, sign of too much petrol proportion, something to do with proper
    > functioning of the carburettor and so on.

    comparing medical science to mechanics is simply wrong and a faulty analogy.

    > >
    > >
    > > > This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a problem, one must
    > > > understand the root of the problem first, then you are able to rectify its fault.
    > >
    > > Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of apotosis, the process of
    > > ras oncogenes going out of control. An
    introductory
    > > course on biochem will preovide you with enough background in DNA and immunology to understand
    > > introductory texts in oncology.
    >
    >
    > As alternative healer, we don't work with moodern technology's eletronic equipments.

    Many do. Electroacupuncture comes to mind, Hulda's zapper, iriscopy, etc.

    > To see the state on one's health, we look for clues ie. its end product such as, urine, appetite
    > and excretas. As I would like to say, alternative healer don't make money, they were not so
    > recognised offically, cause, they don't come with facts.

    That's right, facts are far and wide apart with a lot of pseudoscience and FUD in between.

    >
    > In some cases where, treating some airborne viruses, what we need to do is, to identify the
    > group's leader (head of those clusters of airborne viruses)

    OH PLEASE! The mere thought of sentient viruses adhering to the wants of a "group leader" is
    laughable.

    > and kill it by applying the element of fire.

    Oh? yeah! Cut and Burn, right?

    > How to put this sort of tretment in paper.

    Just make a note that all experiments were done under investigator LSD premedication.

    > >
    > >
    > > >
    > > > You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured patient that they(MS)
    > > > cannot promise that the cancer won't come back to haunt once more.
    > >
    > > Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and
    I'll
    > > be looking in the literature. I'd say a project like this should provide good data within 24
    > > months, so the first paper could be out in 36. I'll
    be
    > > waiting, and I'm sure so will others.
    >
    > Treating orthodox sicknesses ie. cancer is easily treatable as compared in treating modern days
    > mostly virus derived sickness ie. hepatitis or aids.Treating 'unorthodox sickness' is more
    > challenging. Why I say that?

    Because the mushrooms have been messing with your mind, no doubt.

    >
    > You see, to treat a cough problem, there are hundred of herbal plants that can treat coughing
    > problem. In other word, you see one, you see all, what is so interesting about it. In the case in
    > treating 'unorthodox sicknesses', there are only a handful of unorthodox herbal plants that can do
    > the job. Not only that, its preparation is also, very unusual, different from the preparation on
    > temperate herbs where, they normally dried it, under the Sun.
    >
    > If, you are in the stage of writing a medical journal, and if, you think that, my kind of work can
    > contribute to your work, I'll be glad to assist you on that.

    Well, I am writing two papers, but I think I'll decline your offer, I'll write my own.

    --

    Robert Bronsing

    But that's okay, see the children bleed It'll look great on the TV
     
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