When will Contadope be caught?
- Thread starter greg52
- Start date
Your reference shows no connection between Contador and Fuentes at all. In fact, some of your accusations are so absurd that we have to think that you are the one doing drugs.Doctor.House said:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/ne...es/12964.0.html
Your right they could be clean. But it seems with former discovery (or postal riders) you see two things happen. Either the rider gets considerably slower well riding for another team or they test get busted for doping.blowin mud said:
I use to be a big discovery/postal fan. But with what former riders are saying and the number of former riders testing positive it seems they doped just as much or more than anybody. They where just the best at it, they didn't get caught.
Señor House - I read the 38 page transcript that you posted elsewhere on Operaciön Puerto in its original Spanish. Thanks for that. I paid particular attention to the references to Contador which, in reality, don´t add up to proof of anything.Doctor.House said:
A number of cyclists - such as Basso, Ullrich, Heras and Hamilton - are inextricably linked to doping throughout the document because there are details of their doping programmes as well as references to payments. It is also clear that the Spanish team, Liberty Seguros, was working closely with Fuentes and that Manola Saiz was in regular contact with him (as he had been during his time with Kelme and Comunidad Valencia). Heras also seems to have had a working relationship with Fuentes outside of the team parameters.
However, with regards to Contador, his name only appears alongside that of other team members in a document that details their training programme - no doping products are referred to (unlike elsewhere) and no suggestion that any of the products were for his use. To draw any other conclusion is pure conjecture.
Likewise, the mention of Contador´s name during the recorded telephone calls was in a conversation about the team´s race results. For this reason the UCI and ASO had no problem in accepting he had no case to answer.
In the Spanish media, and long before Contador had won Paris-Nice or this year´s Tour, Fuentes said he had no relationship with Contador. He said nothing equivalent to this about any of the other riders who were correctly implicated.
You mention that Contador wouldn´t provide DNA to do a match against what was found, but I don´t believe any of the blood found was labelled with any reference to him. The key clients in this case - i.e the ones who were on a progmme - all had some form of alias to protect their identification. No such alias existed for Contador.
This, of course, does not prove he does not dope - he may do. But it is not correct to continually imply that Operación Puerto offers any evidence of it.
One can look at his performances with suspicion, or one can give him the benfit of the doubt - but it is not appropriate to call him a dirty cheat until there is reason to do so.
Ok, let's see if we can help out our Doc
Jörg Jaksche
Süddeutschen Zeitung,
30 Juli 2007
"Ich habe Fuentes' Handschrift wiedererkannt"
Jörg Jaksche
Süddeutschen Zeitung,
30 Juli 2007
"Ich habe Fuentes' Handschrift wiedererkannt"
Apologies if I´m wrong on that particular point, I read the document provided by Dr House and did not cross-check it with the blood bags list. But, as I said, when the UCI, ASO and the good Dr Fuentes himself say the boy has no case to answer then perhaps the initials A.C. are suspected of belonging to someone else.thecyclist said:
The dossier submitted by the Guardia Civil, and linked to by Dr House, offers nothing to implicate Contador. Nor do the tapped phone calls (unless there are others that have not been disclosed by the Guardia Civil). I don´t accept that there was any Spanish conspiracy (in conjuction with the TdF, Discovery and the UCI) to clear his name when they were happy to criminalise others.
The investigation was supposed to nail the illegal practices that Fuentes and people like Saiz were conducting. It was the final nail in the coffin for Spain´s biggest cycling hero - Robeto Heras. It destroyed any hope of the Comunidad Valencia team continuing its march towards being a top team or that Liberty Seguros would ever consider sponsoring another pro team. There was no whitewash in Spain of this affair - it received extensive coverage throughout the media - and not in an apologetic fashion.
At the time, the practice of extracting and storing an atheltes blood was not illegal and no court of law could have prosecuted the cyclists for their role in it. The laws that were been broken in relation to blood doping were those of the cycling governing bodies - and they said he had no case to answer.
If you are referring to me, sorry I'm not dreaming. It doesn´t matter a jot to me whether he dopes or not. But if you would stick to the facts of Operación Puerto rather than sheer conjecture then, as it stands, he has no case to answer.thecyclist said:
Please explain why the the cycling governing bodies are happy to accept this and you are not - and not just because you think everyone´s a doper so he must be to.
Denia said:
The document cited by Dr House has no direct link to Contador as you have said.
Separately however a bag of blood containing the reference A.C. was found at the Madrid lab.
Whether that bag of blood contains Contadors blood is not known at this point in time.
Exactly this forum and most of its members will not take into account, it must be proven ........conjecture and speculation run wild through these pages.. it does not matter if there was 50 gallons of blood with AC on it, until proven ..let it go.limerickman said:
DH is the worst of all and it just goes on and on....
Tim Lamkin said:
.........so I can take it that Jan Ullrich's is innocent too?
And that you will agree that JU is innocent as well?
Unlit it is proven, by independent labs with a verified process and a repeatable process........YES...do I think he is guilty...YES
ALL are innocent until proven guilty....makes for a good legal system. You have a problem with this?
...BTW I don't care who dopes if they are caught they should be banned for life as soon as it is verified.
ALL are innocent until proven guilty....makes for a good legal system. You have a problem with this?
...BTW I don't care who dopes if they are caught they should be banned for life as soon as it is verified.
Limerickman - The evidence against Ullrich in relation to Puerto is massive and damming - enough for me to have no doubt that he was guilty of participating in a sustained doping programme. Likewise Heras, Hamilton, Basso - where there is a clear trail of money payments, phone calls that refer to doping and documents with doping orders and schedules then I think it is reasonable to offer an opinion ahead of any formal prosecutions.limerickman said:
None of this applies to Contador so unless there is other, as yet unreleased evidence he can´t be fingered as a known cheat. No matter what your gut feeling is.
Tim Lamkin said:
Tim : I know you had a late night last night.
But even with having a late night the above statement is unreadable
Are you saying that Ullrich is guilty too?
Or what are you trying to say?
Tim Lamkin said:
Tim : unfortunately very few doping cases are addressed in a court of law.
Denia said:
Den : the blood found in the Madrid lab has never been tested to ascertain whether or not the blood found belongs to the various cyclists named (Basso, Ullrich etc).
A bag of blood referenced AC was found at the lab : that blood like the rest of the blood has never been tested.
Others here have stated that the only way to prove that doping occurs is for that blood, found in Madrid, to be tested to ascertain the guilt or innocence of the rider concerned.
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