Discussion in 'Doping in Cycling' started by sethkauf, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. sethkauf

    sethkauf New Member

    Nov 30, 2012
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    As avid cyclists, we should all be asking “when will it end?” I am referring to the lying, the manipulating, the still unfathomable and purposeful misleading with respect to Lance. The sport (thankfully) is well on its way to “recovery” thanks to the long overdue coming clean by many…but NOT by all.

    Hence this post…a post simply aimed to ask those still supporting, trusting, looking to for training advice and even sending money to a key individual tied to Lance who CONTINUES to this very day to proactively mislead and misguide? That individual is Chris Carmichael.

    First a review of some facts specifically related to Mr. Carmichael and then an anecdote from just 1 month ago to ask you…”when will it end?”

    By now…it is well accepted (not just speculated) that Lance admitted to doctors in October 1996 in an Indiana Hospital in the presence of several witnesses that he had, in fact used performance-enhancing drugs. Present were Frankie and Betsy Andreu, Stephanie McIlvain and others INCLUDING Chris Carmichael. This hospital incident is of great significance and not simply because multiple signed affidavits and USADA’s Reasoned Decision highlight it as pivotal from a factual evidence perspective, but ALSO because this hospital incident was the impetus for great torment, great manipulation, and even great “threats” orchestrated by Lance and his supporters. It is impossible to ignore the fact that Chris was in the room and witnessed the very same conversation between Lance and his doctors.

    One might also be able to somehow accept why Chris Carmichael (similar to myriad others) looked the other way while the lie was perpetrated and while in this case, Betsy and Frankie were outcast, slandered and even threatened as a result of telling the truth about that day in October 1996, but even if we somehow accept that…I ask, “when will it end?”

    I ask you that because we now need to fast forward to present-day…acknowledging the fact that a lot of new information became visible to the public’s eye on October 10, 2012 with USADA’s Reasoned Decision. A long-list of players guilty in one way or another finally came clean of late and we (the public and cycling enthusiasts the world-over) were able to see all of the details right in front of our eyes. That was October 10th of this year…

    Now for an anecdote from October 30th of this year…20 days after the Reasoned Decision was made public and 20 days after we all began accepting reality while simultaneously trying to help the sport move on and begin to “recover.”

    I was a recently signed-on Carmichael Training Systems Athlete, and because of being a CTS Athlete, I (along with all CTS Athletes) received the following e-mail from Chris Carmichael on 10/30/12:

    [SIZE=15.0pt]From: [/SIZE][SIZE=15.0pt]Chris Carmichael <[email protected]>[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=15.0pt]To: [/SIZE][SIZE=15.0pt]Chris Carmichael <[email protected]>[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=15.0pt]Subject: [/SIZE][SIZE=15.0pt]Message for CTS Athletes[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14.0pt]With all the news from pro cycling over the past few weeks, I wanted to reach out to CTS Athletes with a short message. I’ve dedicated my professional life to bringing elite-level coaching to all endurance athletes, and the success of CTS coaching – your coaching - is entirely based on sound sports science, strong relationships, and proven coaching methods.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14.0pt]Regarding Lance Armstrong, you can read my comments from a recent interview with Velonews. Here's the link to the article<http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/carmichael-on-armstrong-im-convinced-he-was-the-best-athlete_236067>.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14.0pt]As I celebrated my 52nd birthday last week, I thought about how Carmichael Training Systems has grown since we started the business a dozen years ago. CTS has been successful for reasons beyond me or the success of any one person. CTS is successful because sound training principles and great coaching relationships continue to deliver race-winning results to thousands of athletes at all levels of sport. I'm proud of what you and all CTS Athletes and Coaches have accomplished, from Olympic medals and Ironman World Championships to first centuries and victories in small-town criteriums. Thank you for your continued commitment to CTS and for trusting us to help you reach your fitness and performance goals.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14.0pt]Chris Carmichael[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=14.0pt]CEO/Head Coach[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=14.0pt]Carmichael Training Systems[/SIZE]


    The link provided in that e-mail from Chris Carmichael to all of the CTS Athletes on 10/30 (20 days after the Reasoned Decision was released) was to a “Velo News” article from August of this year from which, here is an excerpt summarizing Chris Carmichael’s point of view on the recent investigation:


    [SIZE=14.0pt]“At 18 years old I saw Lance take apart a world championship field in Japan that included the best East Germans and Soviets from the Eastern Bloc,” Carmichael told VeloNews. “He ended up 10th or 11th, but if he knew what he was doing he would have won. A year later, at a 10-day pro-am stage race in Italy, I saw him destroy some of the best amateurs and pros in cycling. Then, in 1993, he won the world road championship ahead of Miguel Indurain, at 21 years old.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14.0pt]“I’m convinced Lance won his Tour de France titles because he was the best athlete,” Carmichael continued. “I believe he was the best trained, the most focused, the most disciplined, and the most dedicated to excellence. I’m saddened by the news today, but I’m convinced he was the most talented and gifted athlete there was out there.”[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=14.0pt]Asked if he was surprised that USADA had compiled evidence of a doping conspiracy at U.S. Postal Service during the years that he had coached Armstrong, Carmichael hesitated.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=14.0pt]“This is the only thing I’ll say about that,” he said. “In 20 years, I never saw him use any banned substances, and in my eyes, seeing is believing.”[/SIZE]


    So 20 days after USADA’s Reasoned Decision was made public with all of the supporting evidence, Carmichael directed his athletes to an article from 2 months prior to sum up his perspective…a perspective that while not being a direct lie (as being in the hospital room and hearing Lance’s confession didn't mean he “saw” Lance take banned substances), was certainly misleading in the biggest sense.

    Most disheartening wasn’t the fact that Carmichael wasn’t one to finally come clean…it wasn’t the fact that he knew all those years, yet stayed silent…it wasn’t even the fact that he had made the introduction between Lance and Dr. Ferrari...it was the fact that here he was 20 days AFTER USADA’s Reasoned Decision was made public PROACTIVELY misleading his athletes…continuing to perpetrate the Lance Armstrong fallacy.

    That was enough for me, so I promptly called CTS that day to cancel my coaching services, which is when my anecdote gets even more unbelievable and causes me to ask again, “when will it end?”

    Upon calling “CTS Athlete Services” on October 30th to explain I could no longer be a CTS Athlete given the way in which Chris Carmichael was now taking a proactive approach to continue the misdirection as it related to Lance, I was told that I would get a call back from the manager who wanted to take all of “these types of calls” directly. I said no problem and awaited the call.

    Two hours later, my phone rang…only it wasn’t the manager…it was Chris Carmichael and for the next 13minutes, I had the most surreal conversation I had ever had with respect to Lance Armstrong.

    I quickly explained my disappointment to Chris on the phone that night. I explained how even after reading the affidavits and USADA’s Reasoned Decision, I continued along as a CTS Athlete…always feeling a little “weird” about it, but somehow reasoning that he was just being publicly silent about it. That was, of course, until I received the above email on October 30th. This was a far cry from being publicly silent, I explained to Chris. This was continuing to proactively perpetrate a lie. Chris did most of the talking for the rest of the conversation. He explained to me that yes, he was in the hospital room, but that he “didn’t have a pencil and paper, so wasn’t taking notes on what Lance told the doctors.” When I asked, he told me “yeh…maybe what Frankie and Betsy said did happen, but I can’t say for sure, because I was focused on was my 23 year old friend Lance and the fact that he was battling cancer.” This went on and on and the simple fact remained that Chris was continuing…right up until the end of our conversation to misdirect, misguide and proactively misrepresent reality. We agreed I’d sleep on it before making a final decision about canceling and he said I should feel free to call him to talk more about it if I’d like.

    My mind was made up, but I slept on it and called CTS Athlete Services the very next morning to officially cancel my contract. Upon calling, I was told there was a note in the system from Chris that I should feel free to call him at any time to talk more about this and that he hoped I’d reconsider and stay-on as a CTS Athlete. I never called him again and don’t have any intention to.

    So, I ask again…”when will it end?” There are three categories of people in this utter disaster of a scenario with respect to Lance and cycling…

    There are the ones who were “pre-maturely” honest and they paid a price. These are folks like Frankie and Betsy Andreu, Fillipo Simeoni, and others.

    Then there is a large group of individuals who came “clean” later on, some sooner than others, but all eventually doing so. These are folks like Tyler, Danielson, Levi, Hincapie, Vande Velde, Vaughters, Landis and many others.

    Then there is a third group of people…the very, very worst who continue to perpetrate a lie…Lance, Bruyneel, Ferrari, some others and YES…Chris Carmichael.

    So I ask one final time…”when will it end?” Should ANY avid cyclist be supporting (in one way or another) anyone in this third group of individuals?

    That is a question each one of us can only answer for ourselves!!!

    Thanks for listening.

  2. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Oct 6, 2003
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    It will end when it is no longer news worthy and does not garner the interest of the cycling community and the public at large. It will end when all finacial arguments and settlements are over. As far as the mistrust and turmoil left behind because Armstrong was such a dominant force in cycling, it will probably never end.
  3. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

    Dec 23, 2006
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    LA is in the abyss. He perpetrated the most grandiose fraud in the history of sport - actually, he's STILL perpetrating it and with that he's removed Ben Johnson's name from the top of the podium of sporting infamy. When cheating is discussed, his name will be resurrected at the beginning and end of the conversation. As long as he continues to romance the lie that was his cycling career, he will remain a current topic for discussion and derision. Until such time that he figures it advantageous for himself to confess, this 'affair' will not end, or even abate.

    Serious soapbox material...
  4. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2004
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    It will never end because Armstrong has neither the spine nor the nad to own up to what he has done. As bad as his doping endeavors were, the way he shit on people like Emma O'Reilly, the Andreus, various authors, and etc. is much worse. The Armstrong affair is bigger than the Festina affair was and remember how long it took people to stop talking about it. Add to that the fact that now we have an extensive system of interweb tubes through which old news is constantly recycled. One very sad note: it's definite that no one will stop talking about Armstrong until Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin retire.
  5. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

    Dec 23, 2006
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    It'll be interesting to see how Carmichael makes out in the wake of this scandal as he's built his entire business model off the ability to name-drop LA at will and feed off the credibility the name once garnered. Talk about a foundation built on quicksand.

    Good to see the OP take a stand and call BS on him.