Where did all the mid range steel road bikes go?

[pierepelot]

Hello and thanks for taking the time to read this.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
Here' s the deal...
Track frames made from steel are available in very reasonable prices;

http://velospace.org/node/7445
http://velospace.org/node/12526


On the contrary, modern steel road bikes are only limited to a very high end market, usually custom made, and the lower end ones for beginners are alu


http://rittecycles.com/custom/stainless/
http://www.pegoretticicli.com/frames
http://road.cc/content/news/67152-just-tokyo-fixed-road-rocket


Why is this? Why has the market limited new road riders to alu frames? Should one not have the choice to pick a resonably priced steel?

To me steel offers many advantages; durability(lifetime companions), better feel(the difference is very real!), aesthetics( I simply dislike modern road frame futuristic geometry).
Enough with the alu/carbon stuff!/img/vbsmilies/smilies/nonono2.gif All we ask for is a simple modern steel roadie, that is affordable... Actually, I would just want those track frames noted above with vertical dropouts, and cable guides/stoppers.

And I could not care less about the vintage look with the lugged steel etc etc...

Anyone can clear up the mess and explain the market to me? Or am I just going crazy... I think there really is a hole in the market right there...
Thanks for your time..

 

[oldbobcat]

For the most part, the market (consumers and producers) simply decided that aluminum frames with carbon forks were more desirable at this price point. The Taiwanese fabricators have simply gotten very adept at mass producing really good aluminum frames at a good price.

For moderately priced steel bikes, check out the new Raleigh Record and the Bianchi Imola and Volpe. I believe Specialized made a steel-framed Allez last year but cancelled it due to lack of interest. A couple years ago, Gary Fisher (Trek) made an excellent steel-framed cyclocross bike, the Presidio. It has been replaced by the carbon Cronus CX.

For a moderately priced aluminum bike that has a terrific ride, check out the low-number Scott Speedsters, S10 and S20.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Track frames made from steel are available in very reasonable prices;"

More accurately, those are urban hipster single-speed and 'fixie' frames that, at a stretch, could be advertised as track style frames.

The are not track geometry and they could not withstand the demands of track racing. The only thing 'track' about these frames is the rear-loading dropouts in most cases (and, of course, the lack of gearing).

The only reason these are manufactured is fashion. Young men (and some young ladies) buy them in numbers significant enough to keep them in production. Low to medium priced 'fixies' with more bling or fashion accessories (color-coordinated rims, leather bar wrap, warning bells, etc.) are what sell to that demographic.

Skinny steel tubes fit that retro look well and the prices are low enough to allow affordability and high enough to confer some status and build quality to the owner.

There is also the genuinely practical aspect of riding a single-speed/fixie. The simplicity fits well with the flat, short trips urban owners typically use them on. Maintenence is simplified, cleaning is easier and quicker. These attributes could be just as easily realized in aluminum, titanium and carbon, if the fashionable, classic look could be maintained.

 

[Randyforriding]

Try bikesdirect.com and performancebike.com. Fuji makes a nice steel bike.
I think the problem is that you can mass produce an good aluminum frame but a good steel frame is labor intensive. I don't think you can make a steel or aluminum frame that is as light as carbon. Carbon also has the advantage that you can customize the lay-up to get the ride qualities you want. This is why all the bikes in the TDF are carbon. But I think you can probably make a steel frame that outperforms aluminum, but you may need to go custom. I have a Davidson custom steel that I still ride a lot. My goal with that bike was to take steel performance as far as it would go. I even have a steel fork. I did pretty well, but I think steel could be pushed even farther. Can it compete with aluminum? Absolutely! Can it compete with carbon? No, but I think you can come a lot closer than most people think and steel will take more abuse and probably last longer. I haven't tried tiatnium so I can't make any judgements there, but I'm guessing that a steel bike with DuraAce would weigh about the same as a titanium bike with Ultegra and come in at about the same price.
Randy

 

[alienator]

Try bikesdirect.com and performancebike.com.  Fuji makes a nice steel bike. I think the problem is that you can mass produce an good aluminum frame but a good steel frame is labor intensive.  I don't think you can make a steel or aluminum frame that is as light as carbon.  Carbon also has the advantage that you can customize the lay-up to get the ride qualities you want.  This is why all the bikes in the TDF are carbon.  But I think you can probably make a steel frame that outperforms aluminum, but you may need to go custom.  I have a Davidson custom steel that I still ride a lot.  My goal with that bike was to take steel performance as far as it would go.  I even have a steel fork.  I did pretty well, but I think steel could be pushed even farther.  Can it compete with aluminum?  Absolutely!  Can it compete with carbon?  No, but I think you can come a lot closer than most people think and steel will take more abuse and probably last longer.  I haven't tried tiatnium so I can't make any judgements there, but I'm guessing that a steel bike with DuraAce would weigh about the same as a titanium bike with Ultegra and come in at about the same price.                                                                                                                                              Randy

I have to completely disagree. There's nothing superior about carbon fiber in itself. Superiority manifests as a result of design, construction, QC and most importantly as a result of how a bike fits a rider and how fit a rider is. With carbon fiber, you may be able to build a bike that is laterally or torsionally stiffer for a given weight, but there has yet to be a study produced that demonstrates that increased frame stiffness results in increased performance of any sort. Carbon fiber can certainly be used to produce light bikes, but so can steel. Just take look at the steel bikes that Rob English is building. More importantly, the difference in weight between frames of any material are small enough as to be not significant in their affect on performance. As for titanium, I built up a 58cm (57.5cm VTT) titanium bike to 13.5lbs that could have been at least a pound lighter.

 

[bartsie]

Originally Posted by pierepelot .

All we ask for is a simple modern steel roadie, that is affordable...

* Bianchi (several models)
* Jamis (several models)
* Raleigh (several models)
* Surly Pacer
* Soma Smoothie, ES

How many do you need, really?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Maybe 'high' mid-range? Meh...life's too short to ride fugly bikes! Super Corsa FTMFW!

Steel is real, baby! As available from Cinelli today:



Sitting my back office waiting on a Record groupset several years ago...



The racing bicycle of 1985...just as Papa Cinelli wanted it to be!

 

[Randyforriding]

I found this at bikesdirect.com Probably about what you are looking for. I think Fuji also makes a retro steel bike.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/schwinn/schwinn_letour_legacy_xi.htm
Steel still has some life in it, but I think it's days are numbered.

 

[Randyforriding]

My frame as it sat at Eliot Bay Cycles, in Seattle, home of Davidson. Built up with Ultegra.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Very niiiice! Davidson has always been a rarely seen frameset in my part of the country.

You must be at least 6' 3"! No chain stay brace?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Canada has always been a good source of decent mid-line steel frames. They have a history of common sense economics when it comes to racing bikes.

Marinoni used to manufacture lots of mid-range steel road bikes, but now only offer aluminum and carbon geared bikes. They build only one steel (Zona) frameset and it's a fixed gear model: http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/Html/Strada.html What's up with the 90 Kg weight limit? On a steel bike? Weird.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Randyforriding .

Very nice indeed.

"No one brings a fella that size unless they wanna say something without talkin' "
- Mickey, from ******.

Their was a builder in lower Manhattan on Ave A. in the 80's, that apparently figured toe overlap into his geometry, Francesco Cuevas. His son may have continued the business. They were pretty cheap relative to off-the-peg Colnago's, Guerciotti's, etc. of the time. It's certainly evident that while the plethora of over the counter frames and componentry can be combined to fit most anatomies, there's always a case for custom.

 

[yeaux]

Masi has a pretty sweet looking steel bike too.

http://www.masibikes.com/bikes/steel/gran-criterium-2013

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by yeaux .

Masi has a pretty sweet looking steel bike too.

http://www.masibikes.com/bikes/steel/gran-criterium-2013

This is a very nice riding bike. It was called the Premio in 2009 and sold separately as a frame for $600 (the Gran Criterium moniker was designated for their alu/carbon stayed hybrid at the time).

I did my first Cat5 race when coming back to racing that year on one of my very own in my local park. A little heavier compared to my 2 more recent bikes but that wasn't what was holding me back. But this is not your modern thin walled steel: I'm gandering no thinner than .7, maybe .6mm in the non butted section (compared to the current .4 's and .5's of the juicy stuff).

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Did someone say, "Gran Criterium"?

I always keep one on hand...just in case the world ends tomorrow.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Masi still offer a mid-line steel bike for one large, the Speciale Strada.



I'ld guess the chrome moly tubeset to be as good or better that the somewhat dead old Columbus Cromor or Aelle tubesets. It's cool right down to the top tube brake cable clips.

 

[oldbobcat]

What's this "Masi still offer?" After Faliero died, Haro somehow acquired the Masi brand from the North American (California) operation.

Alberto, the son, still manufactures bikes under the grandstand of the Vigorelli Velodrome, but they're branded Milano when they're sold in the USA.

The new Gran Criterium is cool enough with its Breaking Away orange paint, but those doglegged fork blades will never evoke memories of this:

 

[Randyforriding]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Very niiiice! Davidson has always been a rarely seen frameset in my part of the country.

You must be at least 6' 3"! No chain stay brace?

I'm probably under 6'2", but I have long legs and Im not as flexible as I used to be (or just wiser). I don't race, so I decided to place more emphasis on being comfortable.
As for the chain stay brace, I'm not sure why he didn't use one. It may have to do with the oversized tubing I chose. I'm guessing that one of the original purposes of the chain stay brace was to make mounting a kick-stand easier. When I was a kid, my bikes always had a kickstand and would have thought it crazy to not have one. How else to park your bike at your friends house.
Randy

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"After Faliero died..."

Long before he died there was debate as to what a 'real' Masi was and where it came from...3V from Carlsbad or GC from under a moldy velodrome in Milan.

Haro is carrying on an Italian family tradition.

And speaking of Haro...not a bad steel fixed gear in steel from them, the Projekt 2013 for $390 MSRP.




Hmmm...they do a cross bike, but the frame is aluminum.

The old man really srewed the pooch when it came to losing the trade name in the states. Even when Cali was cranking out Imron paint jobs there was still plenty of gray market and wholesale Italian jobs coming in. Even in the '70's Masi was jobbing stuff out...according to cycling lore.