Where should I start?

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by FatRoadie, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. FatRoadie

    FatRoadie New Member

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    First of all lemme state Im not a hardcore road racer by any means... Last year my weight peaked at almost 320lbs and I was an unhappy camper...

    Remembered back to when I was stationed in Southern Germany, Riding both road and mtn...Decided to fix what was wrong immediately...

    As of today Ive lost 80 lbs +/- my health is gettin better and better with every ride... My road rides consist of usually either a 15 mile loop, with two hard hills (bridge) or a 35 mile loop that is flat out.....and flat back... My usual speed for these rides is 17-19 mph... when I first started it was 15-16... On some flats with other hardcore riders Ive chased their wheels up to 26mph or more, lol until the cardiac arrest threshold point...

    Id like to get a little more organized with my training. Unfortunately, I ride alone... And being back in school again studying Emergency Medecine....Dont have the money, or reason for a personal trainer...

    Any opinions toward becomming a little more organized in my training would be appreciated.

    Basically apart from weight loss my goals are to get back into racing form (which may be unrealistic anyway, but I dont believe it is) Id like to be riding faster and stronger....bottom line...

    Im using a Vetta cycling computer on my road bike, however not using a heart rate monitor...

    Thanks in advance....

    Bruce
     
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  2. FatRoadie

    FatRoadie New Member

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    Thanks for the replies......lol.....
     
  3. J-MAT

    J-MAT New Member

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    FatRoadie:

    Hey bro, you're doing good. Plus it sounds like your head is in the right place, jumping on wheels at 26 mph.

    Congratulations on your weight loss. Keep up the good work. Your average speed is good also, but gradually bump it up more and more.

    Learn to spin, and put a cadence meter on your bike if not so equipped. Develop a "cadence window" where you can put out power at a variety of cadences. Mostly focus on 80-100 rpm. Generally speaking, lower cadences (30-60 rpm) focus on leg strength, higher cadences (95-105 rpm) focus on cardiovascular fitness. Cadences in between are a blend the two.

    Go "hard" 1-3 times a week, and ride easy the other days. For hard rides, go as hard as possible for 20-30 minutes 1-3 times (20-60 minutes total effort not including warm up/cool down), or do a few 3-5 minute intervals, at a faster pace. You could also climb a 1 mile hill 2-5 times as fast as possible.

    If you are too tired to go hard, just ride easy or go home. Learn how much recovery your body needs.

    Try to ride 5+ days a week if you can swing it. One day per week do a bigger ride with more miles. Since you do 35 miles now, start with 40 miles. Add 5 miles to that every 2-3 weeks or so.

    Find a training partner. Ideally, this will be or become a good and trusted friend, someone you can count on off the bike as well. It will make bigger rides easier and safer, and make your riding more enjoyable.

    You can get fitter and faster than you have ever been before. It's only unrealistic if you say it is. You don't need lots of time or money to get fast. A bike, proper motivation, and 60-90 minutes is all you really need.

    Good luck!!!
     
  4. FatRoadie

    FatRoadie New Member

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    Thanks very much for the reply. With all the talk of Lactic Thresholds and Watts and other stuff that gets thrown about, it gets very confusing...

    Bruce
     
  5. zakeen

    zakeen New Member

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    hhmmm... your right, it seems in this forum site they talk about it heaps, to much talking and not enough riding. I think your on the track with the help that you just got!
     
  6. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    In order to facilitate weight loss, a heart rate monitor can help. Maximum fat loss will occur with your heart rate (HR) sitting at 65 - 75% of your maximum HR for prolonged efforts.
    (Approximate Maximum HR = 220 minus your age).
    You need to maintain that HR for as long as you can, but certainly longer than 30 mins. Lower HR or shorter rides will just burn up glucose & glycogen before getting to the fat. Higher HR mean you need energy faster so you burn up the glucose & glycogen first and then start using protein (ie muscle) for energy if you keep going.
    Obviously you need to watch what you eat also to lose fat. Try reducing your carbohydrate intake after lunchtime.
     
  7. Aztec

    Aztec New Member

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    Sounds like you are right on track to me. I don't know any 240lb dudes who can average 17-19 mph!
     
  8. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    The fat burning zone is a myth! To lose weight you need to create a calorie defocite, this is best acheived by restricting intake and exercising. To create the largest calorie defocite exercise as hard as you can for the time you have available. While this might mean exercising at 50% for 5 hours, it also means 90% for 30 mins etc. Obviously, you need to do some training before doing the most intense exercise.

    Actualy, at lower intesnsities most energy is provided from fat (hence the 'fat burning zone' myth). The source of the calorie defocite (i.e. burning fat or glucose) is not important.

    Fat usage is maximised at 65 to 75% and continues to be used at this maximal rate at higher intensities. As the intensity increases, more energy comes from glycogen and glyucose. Protein only provides a small amount of energy and in cycling only during very intense and prolonged sessions. To lose weight conside the calories burned rather than the source of the calories!! Higher intensities provide the highest rate of energy use, but cannot be maintained for as long.

    Try reducing your calorie intake over the day! Carbohydrates will be very important particularly during recovery from exercise.
     
  9. Geonz

    Geonz New Member

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    I'd keep doin' what you're doin'. It's working.
    Keep a detailed log so you can see the progress, and don't be discouraged at plateaus. They're better than going back downhill.
    Are you heading into fall and winter and worried about that? (I know I am a little.)
    I have to say I gained an awful lot without being "organized," just getting in a whole lot of miles. (Telecommuting rather helped. I could "commute" back to my home office everymornign and "commute" home in the evening.) I wondered about whether I was getting faster / stronger because I was only riding hard once or twice a week; lots of time riding in club rides with the ol' heart rate 120-140. And I liked taknig up less room on the office chair.
     
  10. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    >The fat burning zone is a myth.

    There are a lot of 'experts' who would dispute that. If you watch the olympic marathon runners train, they follow the prolonged 65 - 75% max HR rule in the lead up to a big event to maximise weight loss and reduce their body fat.

    >As the intensity increases, more energy comes from glycogen and glyucose. Protein only provides a small amount of energy and in cycling only during very intense and prolonged sessions.

    But you will run out of glucose & glycogen at a time that varies with your intake, your output and your ability to store glycogen. I don't really want to be delving into my protein stores for energy if I can avoid it, especially not if I am just on a training ride. I've worked hard to get muscly thighs!!!

    >Try reducing your calorie intake over the day! Carbohydrates will be very important particularly during recovery from exercise.

    Sure, but most people's diets have excessively high carbohydrate intakes. If you are 23 or riding many hours a day, that doesn't matter a whole lot. But when you are over 30 or are trying to lose fat, this will catch up with you. Reducing overall caloric intake is useful, but most people trying to lose fat will have greater success reducing carbohydrates late in the day compared to trying (usually unsuccessfully) to reduce overall caloric intake. It doesn't take much carbs to recover if you are riding to lose weight. If you are riding in the Tour de France, that is a different kettle of fish.
     
  11. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Originally posted by patch70, i responded with **
    >The fat burning zone is a myth.

    There are a lot of 'experts' who would dispute that. If you watch the olympic marathon runners train, they follow the prolonged 65 - 75% max HR rule in the lead up to a big event to maximise weight loss and reduce their body fat.

    **There aren't any experts who would dispute that. The fat burning zone is a complete myth a 2Lap mentioned. You should train at the highest level that you can sustain for maximum weight loss

    >As the intensity increases, more energy comes from glycogen and glyucose. Protein only provides a small amount of energy and in cycling only during very intense and prolonged sessions.

    But you will run out of glucose & glycogen at a time that varies with your intake, your output and your ability to store glycogen. I don't really want to be delving into my protein stores for energy if I can avoid it, especially not if I am just on a training ride. I've worked hard to get muscly thighs!!!

    **Which is why it's important to take on carbs even when aiming to loose weight. You'd have do a really intense session to start using carbs

    >Try reducing your calorie intake over the day! Carbohydrates will be very important particularly during recovery from exercise.

    Sure, but most people's diets have excessively high carbohydrate intakes.

    **quite often this is very untrue. In the dietary analyses that i do, people usually undereat carbs and over eat protein and fat. This is for a wide range of groups from, e.g., weight loss people right up to elite athletes.

    If you are 23 or riding many hours a day, that doesn't matter a whole lot. But when you are over 30 or are trying to lose fat, this will catch up with you. Reducing overall caloric intake is useful,

    **this is the only thing that is important in weight loss (creating a negative energy balance)


    but most people trying to lose fat will have greater success reducing carbohydrates late in the day compared to trying (usually unsuccessfully) to reduce overall caloric intake.

    **this is just a myth and makes no sense at all.

    ric

    It doesn't take much carbs to recover if you are riding to lose weight. If you are riding in the Tour de France, that is a different kettle of fish.
     
  12. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    In addition to Rics post...

    Marathon Runners main concern is running quickly hence prolonged training. Low body fat is a byproduct of both this training to run faster and a good diet, not the goal of the training. I would be interested to see any marathon runner perfom without any carbohydrate intake.
     
  13. Fatboy

    Fatboy New Member

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    bruce

    I use an online diary at www.cycle2max.com it allows me to at a glance see my months rides summarised showing kilometres av speed heart rate etc. It is very rewarding to see these averages change over time.

    A couple of my training friends also use the service and it is motivational to see when they have been on a ride and how hard or how hilly they went etc etc.

    HTH
    Duncan
     
  14. FatRoadie

    FatRoadie New Member

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    Thanks for all the information that was put out... It will be used and is greatly appreciated...

    Bruce...
     
  15. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    Originally posted by ricstern

    >You should train at the highest level that you can sustain for maximum weight loss.

    Advice needs to be practical! This suggestion is okay for someone with a good level of fitness. However, for someone who goes by the name of "fatroadie" and asks "where should I start?", I doubt you are aiming at the right level.

    If a relative newbie tries to go at 90 - 95% effort to follow your advice, within a short time, they will be stuffed. They'll complete their ride at ~25% effort, achieve little in terms of calories burned and will not get back on the bike for several days due to sore muscles.

    If on the other hand, they ride for 2 hours at 65%, their overall caloric expenditure will be higher and they will recover faster.

    >You'd have do a really intense session to start using carbs

    Huh??? Carbs will be the first energy source that is tapped at any level of effort.

    >In the dietary analyses that i do, people usually undereat carbs and over eat protein and fat.

    That all depends on who you believe but where I live, the vast majority of people overdo both carbs and fat.

    >this is the only thing that is important in weight loss (creating a negative energy balance)

    >this is just a myth and makes no sense at all.

    There is more to it that just creating a negative energy balance. If all you do is eat less of the same foods, your body will lower its metabolic rate and so you will lose weight only vcery briefly.

    Consider why 2 people who have a total input of 2000 kilocalories per day. The first takes it in 2 meals. The 2nd takes in 5 meals. The latter will do better because their metabolic rate will not be reduced as much.

    'Late in the day carbs' certainly do contribute to weight gain. You sleep, your metabolic rate decreases and insulin produced as a result of those carbs will lead to laying down of fat.

    Insulin has anabolic effects. If you want proof, follow 100 people with adult-onset (or type II) diabetes mellitus who are put on insulin injections for the first time. 80 - 90 of them will put on considerable weight in the next few months. Ask any doctor who's worked in an endocrine unit. Conversely, watch anyone who has strictly followed the Atkin's diet (not that I am suggesting a cyclist do that), and they can lose a lot of weight with a very high caloric intake.
     
  16. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    Originally posted by 2LAP

    >Marathon Runners main concern is running quickly hence prolonged training. Low body fat is a byproduct of both this training to run faster and a good diet, not the goal of the training.

    These marathon runners do not consider 65 - 75% efforts to be "quick". In the weeks leading up to a race, one specific goal is to reduce body fat which is why they follow this plan in the lead up to a race.

    >I would be interested to see any marathon runner perfom without any carbohydrate intake.

    Nobody would ever suggest that of an elite athlete!
    However, for someone who just wants to get fit and lose fat, reducing carbohydrates will be beneficial (as long as they maintain a healthy overall diet).
     
  17. serottarider

    serottarider New Member

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    Actually current nutritional teaching looks at two areas:

    1. To lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat.
    2. You need to ensure that the individual dietary substrates - carbohydrate, protein and fat - are also in balance to maintain weight, and in deficit to lose it.

    I was having a lot of difficulty losing body fat despite an overall caloric deficit. Once I brought my daily fat intake below the balance point the body fat reduced surprisingly fast.

    Hope this helps!
     
  18. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    There is more than just one style of "nutritional teaching". It depends on who you believe or what your experiences are.
     
  19. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Originally posted by patch70, i respond with **
    Originally posted by ricstern

    >You should train at the highest level that you can sustain for maximum weight loss.

    Advice needs to be practical! This suggestion is okay for someone with a good level of fitness. However, for someone who goes by the name of "fatroadie" and asks "where should I start?", I doubt you are aiming at the right level.

    **I stand by that comment, as i said "sustain". In fairness, i'll quantify it by adding that it should be the maximum effort you can sustain regularly and for a good period of time.


    If a relative newbie tries to go at 90 - 95% effort to follow your advice, within a short time, they will be stuffed. They'll complete their ride at ~25% effort, achieve little in terms of calories burned and will not get back on the bike for several days due to sore muscles.

    ** i wasn't suggesting they ride all out

    If on the other hand, they ride for 2 hours at 65%, their overall caloric expenditure will be higher and they will recover faster.

    >You'd have do a really intense session to start using carbs

    Huh??? Carbs will be the first energy source that is tapped at any level of effort.

    **Lol! my apologies that should have read protein!


    >In the dietary analyses that i do, people usually undereat carbs and over eat protein and fat.

    That all depends on who you believe but where I live, the vast majority of people overdo both carbs and fat.

    **i believe the analysis that i do. i've yet to see anyone overeat carbs (even the morbidly obese people i've looked at have eaten very small amounts of carb, but huge amounts of protein and fat)

    >this is the only thing that is important in weight loss (creating a negative energy balance)

    >this is just a myth and makes no sense at all.

    There is more to it that just creating a negative energy balance. If all you do is eat less of the same foods, your body will lower its metabolic rate and so you will lose weight only vcery briefly.

    Consider why 2 people who have a total input of 2000 kilocalories per day. The first takes it in 2 meals. The 2nd takes in 5 meals. The latter will do better because their metabolic rate will not be reduced as much.

    'Late in the day carbs' certainly do contribute to weight gain. You sleep, your metabolic rate decreases and insulin produced as a result of those carbs will lead to laying down of fat.

    **only only "lay down fat' by consuming more energy than you need (except in a very few people who have certain medical conditions)


    Insulin has anabolic effects. If you want proof, follow 100 people with adult-onset (or type II) diabetes mellitus who are put on insulin injections for the first time. 80 - 90 of them will put on considerable weight in the next few months. Ask any doctor who's worked in an endocrine unit.

    **i wasn't aware we were talking about people with medical conditions...

    Conversely, watch anyone who has strictly followed the Atkin's diet (not that I am suggesting a cyclist do that), and they can lose a lot of weight with a very high caloric intake.

    **i'm sorry but this is wrong. there's quite a bit of research looking at atkins and the people on atkins do *NOT* loose significantly more than the people on other diets.

    Ric
     
  20. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

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    Sorry, I tend to refer to mainstream science. Although I have never had to lose weight myself, I have advised people on how to lose weight. For every case there was a reduction in intake below expendature and changes in behaviour to make it sustainable.
     
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