Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

[Tadej Brezina]

Eric Vey wrote:

> Jack May wrote:
>
>> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:b177ae18-758f-43e6-9991-b37f2b57ac8d@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 5:49 pm, <h> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:e09cfb36-654a-4f72-96fd-277ae5ce690c@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>
>>
>>> Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
>>> more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
>>> strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.
>>
>>
>> It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
>> Darwin prize is not smart.
>>
>
> When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
> outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
> down by drivers, but wealth is relative.

Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
T.
--
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary
depends upon his not understanding it.”
<Upton Sinclair in The Jungle>

 

[Pat]

On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> - Frank Krygowski
> >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
> >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as youand
> >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> >> Pat in TX
>
> > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > live in the boondocks.
>
> WRONG!!!
>
> "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?

Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
"upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 15, 8:26 pm, [email protected] (Bill Z.) wrote:

> > It hurts me to read about incidents like this. I have no idea what
> > caused this altercation, or why the cyclist felt it was necessary to
> > stab the motorist. I was honked at and flipped off by a motorist on
> > Dundas St. this morning, then almost nailed by a left-turning car near
> > my work. But even when bad things happen to me on the road, I never
> > even come close to wanting to stab someone.
>
> I was in one incident (fortunately no injuries or crashes) in which
> an irate driver passed me in very light traffic on a perfectly straight
> road, and then, when the road went from 4 lanes to 2, he tried to
> close the gap between us and would slam on his breaks, repeating this
> behavior 3 times.  I managed to avoid an accident, but it was very
> close.
>
> I got his license number and reported it to the police. With the reaction
> I got from the f___tards in the DA's office, coupled with the lies and
> run-arounds, I can see why someone might react the way this Canadian
> cyclist did.  If society wants people to do the "right" thing and let
> the criminal justice system handle it, the criminal justice system has
> to uphold its part of the bargain.
>
> BTW, the driver admitted to the braking.  His excuse was that I was
> supposedly going 30 in a 25 zone and he couldn't outrun me, but I
> was blocking traffic anyway.  And that was on a knobby-tired mountain
> bike on basically level ground.
>
> --
> My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

I forgot to get his plate, but for the reasons above, I don't think
there would have been justice --and definitely I'd have gone through a
lot of trouble.

I have another strategy in dealing with the beasts and it's based on a
saying of mine, "My struggle is not against the puppet, but against
the puppeteer"...

Who's the puppeteer who could change things and GIVE RESPECT to the
cyclists? The police, the politicians, the president? Or all of them?
The puppet only takes life in an atmosphere where the cyclists are
equivalent to a stray dog. Even if you screwdrive him, it's not worth
it. Never waste your time with the puppet. Go for the puppeteer. And
that's what I'm doing here.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 16, 9:11 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> > >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has tosay is
> > >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> > >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
> > >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> > >> Pat in TX
>
> > > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > > live in the boondocks.
>
> > WRONG!!!
>
> > "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> > New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> > Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> > --
> > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
> You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
> calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
> and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?
>
> Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
> 'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
> York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
> "upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
> Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
> from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

That will overcrowded soon as the world population explodes and the
hungry masses from the Third World come to America by boatloads. They
are already doing it from Haiti, where the situation is desperate.
See, that's a place where the law of the jungle wiped out all the
resources and people are rioting now.

Food crisis stirs talk in Congress

WASHINGTON, Apr 16, 2008 (The Miami Herald - McClatchy-Tribune
Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- Lawmakers on Tuesday demanded
immediate debt relief for Haiti and the release of millions of dollars
in food aid to help ease the Caribbean nation's struggle with soaring
food prices.

...

"A fight for our moral authority is at stake here," Jackson said,
adding that immigration rules for Haitians should be relaxed. "We
cannot have one set of rules for Cubans and another for Haitians."

Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the $96 million for Haiti
amounted to what the United States spent in seven hours in Iraq.

http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/1374788/

(Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
want me to talk about next?)

 

[Pat]

On Apr 16, 10:00 am, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 16, 9:11 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > ComandanteBanana wrote:
> > > > On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >>> - Frank Krygowski
> > > >> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> > > >> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
> > > >> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> > > >> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world asyou and
> > > >> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>
> > > >> Pat in TX
>
> > > > I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> > > > side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> > > > live in the boondocks.
>
> > > WRONG!!!
>
> > > "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> > > New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> > > Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> > > --
> > > Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> > > The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>
> > You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
> > calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
> > and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?
>
> > Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
> > 'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
> > York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
> > "upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
> > Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
> > from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That will overcrowded soon as the world population explodes and the
> hungry masses from the Third World come to America by boatloads. They
> are already doing it from Haiti, where the situation is desperate.
> See, that's a place where the law of the jungle wiped out all the
> resources and people are rioting now.
>
> Food crisis stirs talk in Congress
>
> WASHINGTON, Apr 16, 2008 (The Miami Herald - McClatchy-Tribune
> Information Services via COMTEX) -- -- Lawmakers on Tuesday demanded
> immediate debt relief for Haiti and the release of millions of dollars
> in food aid to help ease the Caribbean nation's struggle with soaring
> food prices.
>
> ...
>
> "A fight for our moral authority is at stake here," Jackson said,
> adding that immigration rules for Haitians should be relaxed. "We
> cannot have one set of rules for Cubans and another for Haitians."
>
> Rep. Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the $96 million for Haiti
> amounted to what the United States spent in seven hours in Iraq.
>
> http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock News/1374788/
>
> (Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
> want me to talk about next?)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Talk about the role of the bicycler in ensuring his/her own safety
with a brief forray into bicycle edicate. A sidebar and politeness
and civility would also be nice. Then you could cap this with a
discussion on respect for other people, the end to ego-centricism,
recognition that all people are different (and want different things)
and how the world would be better if we all did our part to get along.

That would be a nice this for discussion.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 16, 10:17 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:

> > (Hey, this goes to show that I'm not repeating stuff here. What you
> > want me to talk about next?)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Talk about the role of the bicycler in ensuring his/her own safety
> with a brief forray into bicycle edicate.  A sidebar and politeness
> and civility would also be nice.  Then you could cap this with a
> discussion on respect for other people, the end to ego-centricism,
> recognition that all people are different (and want different things)
> and how the world would be better if we all did our part to get along.
>
> That would be a nice this for discussion.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Not until we see the connection between the victims of the law of the
jungle in Haiti and our own roads we will we are under attack by the
rich and powerful...

On Apr 13, 8:49 am, Igor The Terrible
<[email protected]> wrote:
> My...imagine that! The repercussions of the maldistribution of wealth
> will soon turn on new avenues and come back to rattle the cages of the
> economically oppressive whose reasoning has been all but squashed by
> insatiable greed. Potable water is a becoming an endangered commodity
> and now food is right behind it. This **** doesn't look good at all.
> A word to the wise; address this emerging crisis promptly as it should
> be...or resign yourselves to a fate of your own making. It's no
> longer a game of money being used as beans to keep score. It is now
> becoming a matter of survival and the law of the jungle will rapidly
> eclipse the laws of intellectuals for the promotion of an orderly
> society. Riots are already breaking out in our hemisphere. (See
> Haiti)

We can't simply get along because a few want to keep their lion's
share of the pie, whether that pie is resources or a piece of road.
And every monkey who does something about it, gets us one step closer
toward fixing the jungle --or making it real wild for all. WELCOME TO
THE JUNGLE!

 

[ComandanteBanana]

I put this question to the Scandinavians...

I challenge the lady who had these incidents to tell me if she thinks
that could have happened to her in Sweden. While I was in Norway, I
generally saw good behavior. I'm writing from the jungle
(Miami)...

"Actually, I know this first hand. I grew up on the key and there is
a toll you have to pay to get on there. The residents always
complained about how their tolls were being raised because of people
running the tolls. At one town meeting, they all decided that if they
ever saw someone trying to run the toll, they would alert a toll booth
collector (the emblem lane was a clear lane without an attendant) and
so they did; stopping in the lane to call over attendants to charge
the scammers trying to sneak in behind them. You heard stories of
arguments and road rage farther down the causeway but one day a
busybody troublemaker my mom was driving through there with me in the
car. She saw through her rear view mirror that the guy behind us did
not have an emblem so she stopped and started honking until the
attendant came over to collect his measly dollar and off she drove.
Right before the bridge, the man pulls up next to us, on my side, and
pulls out a gun- A GUN. I was still in elementary school. I remember
how scared my mom looked and how TERRIFIED I was when she physically
started taking my seatbelt off and pushing me towards the floor of the
car. She flew to the first gas station she could find and she NEVER
tried that hall monitor **** again.

I, on the other hand, did not learn my lesson that day. When I was
16, a few days shy of leaving for college, I was driving through the
Gables with my best pal Laura and there was this car of guys that kept
pulling up next to us. We ignored them- actually, we screwed with
them by turning up the radio at the light by the Coral Gables
library. We played this game the whole way through the Gables. At
the light of Coral Way/Miracle Mile and Le Jeune, they pulled up next
to us again. With that they make some dumb ass comments and we
laugh. One of them yells ‘what you laughing at white cracker *****?’
To which my smart ass responds ‘F U.’ The guy got out of the car and
grabbed my friends hair. Not thinking that there are lunatics out
there and because I can’t leave well enough alone empowered by the
whole teen/live forever bit, I get out of the car to get the guy’s tag
number. There was a quick verbal exchange but it ended in the guy
punching me. 3 am and 12 stitches later, I decided life pays you back
for your crimes that and I finally understood Newton’s Law of Motion."

HAVE YOU BEEN THE VICTIM OF HORROR STORIES LIKE THESE?

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
> > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
> > countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
> > I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
> > injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
> > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
> > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
> > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...

Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
That proves that cycling is safe. (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)

Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)

An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000. Of dying while
walking is 1 in 40,000. Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
130,000. That proves that cycling is safe. (Laudan, Larry, The Book
of Risks)

In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
garden for exercise. Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
(Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
Sports & Fitness, 1998)

Stop posting your garbage. You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
that you're not going to get better. But don't assault us with your
ignorance and whining.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[ComandanteBanana]

Like I said, I put the question to the Scandinavians (isn't Internet
wonderful?) as to whether they too turn to the law of the jungle in
traffic. But in the meantime, see what I've found...

"I have already mentioned about driving in right, in Sweden. One
another thing I observed is, the way pedestrians are given the
priority. Maybe it’s the same all over Europe and somewhere else. But
whenever a pedestrian is about to cross the road, all vehicles come to
a stop and allow the pedestrian to cross. And I have seen Swedish
people nod at the driver and smile, everytime someone stops their
vehicle. Being a good mannered person(Ahem), I tried to follow suit.
But then old habits die hard. I look at the driver, and invariably end
up looking at the co-passenger since the driver sits here on the left
side of the car. And most of the times, it happens to be a girl. So it
is like this. Driver stops the vehicle, I cross the road and then
smile at the girl sitting next to the driver. Poor driver. What he
must be thinking of me? ‘Saala! I stopped the vehicle for you and you
smile at the girl next to me. Hmph!’"

They seem to be pretty civilized. Here the guy will come out of the
car with a bat for looking at his girlfriend. But in India is pretty
bad too...

"good one. in india the drivers have their fun trying to run down the
people and well mannered people too"

And yet their politicians are addressing the issue...


Where are your manners, PM asks motorists

June 24, 2006 15:57 IST

Appalled by the chaos on Indian roads, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh
on Saturday said that wind swept roads and fancy cars alone did not
reflect progress, it had to be accompanied by good road manners and
discipline.

“Building modern roads and driving modern cars are not the end all and
be all of progress. Good road manners and adherence to road discipline
are equally important,” he said at a national highway project
inauguration function in Bangalore.

“I think we must ask ourselves, why can’t we be more polite to each
other, more caring of each other, more respectful of each other,” Dr
Singh asked.

The prime minister said people must learn road manners, how to give
way to pedestrians, how to observe normal rules while overtaking, how
to park and when not to blow a horn.

“These are simple rules, but their observance makes a lot of
difference to our daily lives,” he said, adding: “We Indians behave
with great courtesy at home and with our family and friends. But
sometimes, when we go out we leave these good manners at home. On the
road, we lose control of our good senses. Why should this be so.”

http://prabhukrish.net/2006/06/22/say-cheese/

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 16, 11:55 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> > > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > > is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
> > > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > > of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> > > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > > I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > > and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
> > > countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles..
> > > I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
> > > injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
> > > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
> > > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
> > > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> > That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
>
> Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
> That proves that cycling is safe.  (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
> WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
> trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
>
> Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
> That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
> Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
>
> An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000.  Of dying while
> walking is 1 in 40,000.  Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
> 130,000.  That proves that cycling is safe.  (Laudan, Larry, The Book
> of Risks)
>
> In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
> less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
> lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
> garden for exercise.  Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
> (Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
> Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
> Sports & Fitness, 1998)
>
> Stop posting your garbage.  You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
> that you're not going to get better.  But don't assault us with your
> ignorance and whining.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Biking in traffic ain't safe because:

1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
the right

2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn

3- Some are real criminals

4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities

5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear

As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 16, 2:49 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 13, 8:49 am, Bert Hyman <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Maldistribution of wealth?
>
> > I wasn't aware that there was a pile of wealth somewhere that was being
> > distributed around the world by someone.
>
> Because you aren't one of the elite, nor can you see it well enough to
> understand that the wealth does exist, but only for the very very few.
>
> Mike

The lions control the wealth and the destiny of the jungle...

"what you get is a world where the only law is the law of the jungle,
where the strong prey on the weak and where might makes right. That is
the world we live in today, effectively run as a dictatorship"

(Gee, it almost sounds like our roads!)

The Law of the Jungle
by Jamie Stern-Weiner

In principle, international law serves the same purpose for the world
as traditional common law does for states. As with domestic societies,
without a system of law that is both applied universally and enforced
effectively, what you get is a world where the only law is the law of
the jungle, where the strong prey on the weak and where might makes
right. That is the world we live in today, effectively run as a
dictatorship, where the powerful mold the world around them according
to their interests using force and coercion where necessary.
Unsurprisingly, then, the current international climate exhibits many
of the features of a dictatorship. The strong are exempt from the rule
of law and decide unilaterally whom the law should and should not
apply to. The powerful are free to use violence and intimidation to
coerce the weak into submission. The status quo is, unsurprisingly,
extremely unpopular with the majority of the world – a popular
dictatorship is a rare thing. Dictatorship usually goes hand in hand
with war because a dictator is primarily concerned with consolidating
and expanding his power and, for the powerful, war is an extremely
effective tool for furthering one's own interests.

A strong and apolitical international justice system is, then,
critical in the struggle for peace. Without such a system of
international law, we are all leaving our collective fate in the hands
of the powerful, hands that we can be sure are far from benign.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jsweiner.php?articleid=10431

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 12:05 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 16, 11:55 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> > > > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > > > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > > > is. Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic. Unlike
> > > > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > > > of danger. And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalence of
> > > > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > > > I've commuted by bike since 1977. I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > > > and in peak rush hour in many of them. I've ridden in at least eight
> > > > countries. I've done many self-supported tours, up to 4000 miles.
> > > > I've ridden for nearly 40 years. In all that time, my only on-road
> > > > injury was one skinned knee. Off road, add one incident where I
> > > > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > > > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it. If
> > > > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it. Ride where you're
> > > > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> > > That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
>
> > Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
> > That proves that cycling is safe. (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
> > WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
> > trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
>
> > Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
> > That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
> > Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
>
> > An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000. Of dying while
> > walking is 1 in 40,000. Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
> > 130,000. That proves that cycling is safe. (Laudan, Larry, The Book
> > of Risks)
>
> > In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
> > less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
> > lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
> > garden for exercise. Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
> > (Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
> > Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
> > Sports & Fitness, 1998)
>
> > Stop posting your garbage. You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
> > that you're not going to get better. But don't assault us with your
> > ignorance and whining.
>
> > - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Biking in traffic ain't safe because:
>
> 1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
> the right
>
> 2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn
>
> 3- Some are real criminals
>
> 4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities
>
> 5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear

Those are reasons _you_ imagine cycling is not safe. Data prove you
wrong.

> As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...

Whenever I see someone attempt to quote that, I know the person is
mathematically incompetent.

And you didn't even get the quote right.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 16, 6:28 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 16, 12:05 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 16, 11:55 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 15, 4:24 pm, donquijote1954 <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Apr 15, 2:57 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > > I've trimmed the rest of your usual paranoid whining.
>
> > > > > I've ridden your "jungle" since I was in my 20s, many decades ago.
> > > > > Unlike you, I've never needed to whine about how terrible the world
> > > > > is.  Unlike you, I've had no trouble dealing with traffic.  Unlike
> > > > > you, I've taken the time to look for actual data on bicycling's level
> > > > > of danger.  And in doing so, I found that despite the prevalenceof
> > > > > "Danger! Danger!" worriers, cycling is an _extremely_ safe activity.
>
> > > > > I've commuted by bike since 1977.  I've cycled in hundreds of cities,
> > > > > and in peak rush hour in many of them.  I've ridden in at least eight
> > > > > countries.  I've done many self-supported tours,  up to 4000 miles.
> > > > > I've ridden for nearly 40 years.  In all that time, my only on-road
> > > > > injury was one skinned knee.  Off road, add one incident where I
> > > > > scraped my hands a bit.
>
> > > > > You're unreasonably paranoid and obnoxiously noisy about it.  If
> > > > > you're afraid to ride busy roads, don't do it.  Ride where you're
> > > > > comfortable, and quit your wimpy whining.
>
> > > > That you may be a veteran of war doesn't prove that wars are safe...
>
> > > Roughly fifteen million miles of cycling are done between fatalities.
> > > That proves that cycling is safe.  (Hyden C, Nilsson, Risser R.
> > > WALCYNG - how to enhance WALking and CycliNG instead of shorter car
> > > trips and to make these modes safer, 1998.)
>
> > > Cycling provides 20 years of life gained for every year of life lost.
> > > That proves that cycling is safe. (British Medical Association,
> > > Cycling: Towards Health and Safety, Oxford University Press, 1992)
>
> > > An American's risk of dying inside a car is 1 in 5000.  Of dying while
> > > walking is 1 in 40,000.  Of dying from a bicycle crash is 1 in
> > > 130,000.  That proves that cycling is safe.  (Laudan, Larry, The Book
> > > of Risks)
>
> > > In a typical month, those who participate in cycling for exercise are
> > > less likely to injure themselves than those who walk for exercise,
> > > lift weights for exercise, do aerobic dancing for exercise, or even
> > > garden for exercise.  Yes, bicycling is safer than gardening.
> > > (Powell, K., et. al., Injury Rates from Walking, Gardening,
> > > Weighlifting, Outdoor Bicycling and Aerobics, in Medicine & Science in
> > > Sports & Fitness, 1998)
>
> > > Stop posting your garbage.  You've proven you're a fearful wimp, and
> > > that you're not going to get better.  But don't assault us with your
> > > ignorance and whining.
>
> > > - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Biking in traffic ain't safe because:
>
> > 1- The drivers are poorly trained, and pass on every lane, including
> > the right
>
> > 2- They are often on the phone or don't give a damn
>
> > 3- Some are real criminals
>
> > 4- Cyclists are not given respect, both from drivers and authorities
>
> > 5- Our fat SUVs make it harder to stay clear
>
> Those are reasons _you_ imagine cycling is not safe.  Data prove you
> wrong.
>
> > As for the stats, "There are lies, and statistics"...
>
> Whenever I see someone attempt to quote that, I know the person is
> mathematically incompetent.
>
> And you didn't even get the quote right.
>
> - Frank Krygowski- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK, here's this jungle where you are the guide, and in it there are
many wild beasts, and you are telling to the first time explorer that
because you've survived for so long, they'll be fine. Hmmm...

You know, all kinds of predators in there: snakes, elephants, lions...
Well, you need some kind of shotgun or at least mosquito repellent. It
sounds very scary according to the stories of those who have been
bitten.

WHAT DO OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE EXPERTS AT SURVIVAL SAY?

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 6:58 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> OK, here's this jungle where you are the guide, and in it there are
> many wild beasts, and you are telling to the first time explorer that
> because you've survived for so long, they'll be fine. Hmmm...
>
> You know, all kinds of predators in there: snakes, elephants, lions...
> Well, you need some kind of shotgun or at least mosquito repellent. It
> sounds very scary according to the stories of those who have been
> bitten.
>
> WHAT DO OUR FRIENDS WHO ARE EXPERTS AT SURVIVAL SAY?

They say you should post only on alt.jungle.paranoid.fantasies.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Tom Sherman]

Tadej Brezina wrote:
> Eric Vey wrote:
>
>> Jack May wrote:
>>
>>> "donquijote1954" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:b177ae18-758f-43e6-9991-b37f2b57ac8d@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 14, 5:49 pm, <h> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:e09cfb36-654a-4f72-96fd-277ae5ce690c@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Something funny happens though. The more you move to the right, the
>>>> more they squeeze you. It's a power game, I believe, where only the
>>>> strong (read SUVs and cars) survive.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an evolution game where the smart survive. Trying to win the
>>> Darwin prize is not smart.
>>>
>>
>> When gas gets expensive enough, even Jack will be walking. His whole
>> outlook will change. Right now, only "poor" people walk and get mown
>> down by drivers, but wealth is relative.
>
> Didn't we read some days back in the trike thread, that he IS A CYCLIST?
> T.

Only for recreation on the MUPs.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Tom Sherman]

Pat in upstate New York, not Texas, wrote:
> On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> ComandanteBanana wrote:
>>> On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
>>>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has to say is
>>>> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
>>>> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
>>>> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
>>>> Pat in TX
>>> I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
>>> side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
>>> live in the boondocks.
>> WRONG!!!
>>
>> "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
>> New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>>
>> Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>>
>
> You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
> calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
> and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?
>
As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
boondocks are.

My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
right-of-way.

> Besides, boodocks is falling out of use. It is usually referred to as
> 'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
> York". Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
> "upstate" aren't redundant. Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
> Rochester and Syracuse. Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
> from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.
>
Younger people often use the expression BFE.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Eric Vey]

Tom Sherman wrote:

>> You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing. What's up with that? It's
>> calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
>> and a fabulous lifestyle. What's wrong with that?
>>
> As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
> miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
> more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
> boondocks are.
>
> My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
> and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
> NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
> right-of-way.
>

Wait! Are you implying that there are rednecks in SW NY/NW PA? Who would
a' thunk it.

I was working on a ship once whose crew was mostly made up of Coonasses,
PA rednecks, AL rednecks and me. The PA rednecks had the others beat all
to hell.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

Jim - 16 April 2008 10:37 PM
"El Commandante...why don’t you tell us how you really feel.

And on a side note...where do you get your mushrooms?"


Well, I feel great now that I’m able to fight back against the jungle
responsible for the anonymous predator. The best way is to avoid the
jungles where they are common sight.

But now I’ve got a challenge for those who can change the jungle (the
police, politicians and voters at large): WHY ON EARTH THE POLICE,
INSTEAD OF RUNNING UNDERCOVER OPERATIONS AS A HOOKER, DON’T PUT AN
UNDERCOVER POLICEMAN ON A BIKE AND SEND HIM TO THE BRIDGE?

Oh, no. The police won’t do it because they don’t have orders; the
politicians won’t do it because they don’t care; and the voters --who
drive SUVs-- just want to live in a hypocritical world, where moral
rectitude, and not cyclists rights, is the priority.

That’s why with the revolution, we will bring this package…

“Sexual democracy becomes central even more than religious freedom
when discussing the Dutch vision of democracy.”

http://www.bidoun.com/issues/issue_10/05a_all.html

Actually, I propose a “Dutch Package,” where issues normal to the
Dutch --gay rights, bike facilities, prostitution and marihuana-- are
discussed in less open societies.

PS: Banana peels are better than mushroom. And then you eat the
banana.

 

[Pat]

On Apr 16, 9:50 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Pat in upstate New York, not Texas, wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 15, 10:16 pm, Tom Sherman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> ComandanteBanana wrote:
> >>> On Apr 15, 11:50 am, "Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> - Frank Krygowski
> >>>> Frank, these posts occur every so often and I think there is an agenda
> >>>> behind them. Otherwise, why all the cross-posting? What the OP has tosay is
> >>>> that it's an "us versus them" world---and "them" are homocidal maniacs bent
> >>>> on destroying people riding bicycles. That is not the real world as you and
> >>>> I both know. Ergo, I smell a troll with these posts.
> >>>> Pat in TX
> >>> I've said before you look retarded. Frank it's not even on *your
> >>> side,* since you hate bicycles, even though you don't care because you
> >>> live in the boondocks.
> >> WRONG!!!
>
> >> "Pat in Texas" is NOT the same Pat who lives in the boondocks in upstate
> >> New York. The former Pat is a cyclist, the latter is not.
>
> >> Of course, if people would use a last name we would not have this confusion.
>
> > You say "boondocks" like it's a bad thing.  What's up with that?  It's
> > calm, serene, and provides me with everything I could possibly want
> > and a fabulous lifestyle.  What's wrong with that?
>
> As a child I lived at the end of a 1 mile long dead end gravel road, 7
> miles from a small town, and over 75 miles from the nearest city with
> more than 20 thousand people, so I have a pretty good idea of what the
> boondocks are.
>
> My main problem with the boondocks are there are too many narrow minded
> and often racist/bigoted people, not to mention the armed crazies. I do
> NOT appreciate warning shots fired over my head while I am on public
> right-of-way.
>
> > Besides, boodocks is falling out of use.  It is usually referred to as
> > 'the sticks', as in "Pat who lives out in the sticks in upstate New
> > York".  Although, one has to wonder if "out in the sticks" and
> > "upstate" aren't redundant.  Ahh, maybe not; there is Buffalo and
> > Rochester and Syracuse.  Believe it or not, I don't live all that far
> > from Podunk, which is, of course, the center of all ruralness.
>
> Younger people often use the expression BFE.

Believe it or not, I had to google that term. I have never heard it.

>
> --
> Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
> The weather is here, wish you were beautiful- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

 

[Jym Dyer]

On Apr 16, 6:37 pm, Can'tEvenCommandBananas wrote:

> For all those reasons our roads remain "MOST DANGEROUS
> JUNGLE!"

=v= I'm sure your ALL CAPS is will convince the masses
far more than all those pesky facts and figures.
<_Jym_>

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