Where's Jan ?

[rejobako]

Apparently second place is the same as dead last to some. I personally would give my a** to have just ridden and finished the TDF.
I guess I am just not demanding enough.

From your current perspective, sure. But if you rode the TdF and finished, would you not set your sights on improving your placement the following year?

Although certainly Jan must take some level of satisfaction at the possibility of trying for most podium finishes, it must be somewhat maddening to realize how many times he fell just short of winning the damn thing. I look at his sole TdF win in 1997 as a mixed blessing for him, insofar as the rest of his career has been concerned. Perhaps by achieving the ultimate grand tour result so early in his career, he hasn't been able to cultivate a mindset that would allow him to maximize his readiness for the event on a yearly basis.

I say all that because I truly believe that Ullrich has been the most physically gifted cyclist of the past decade. What has held him back has been preparation and motivation, which go hand in hand.

 

[alibat]

Jan did ride the Giro as training in the past and it didn't work at all. It's a tactic that was not followed by none of the Tour contenders in the last previous years. Anyway, only if he will perform in the 3rd week of the Giro he will proove me (and others, too) wrong. His work will have to pay dividends...

As well as coming second to Armstrong in 2001 he was also runner up in the KOM competition that year (for once bettering Lance in the Tour) so I think it is a good thing, especially considering he is behind schedule due to his knee. It can only be good news that he is still on for the Giro. Providing there are no more setbacks I think Jan can still do it. The course is perfect for him. If he doesn't hit top form until the last week as is the norm with him it won't be the disaster it has been in previous years. Plus there is no LA to intimidate him (which being the nice bloke he is probably did as much as anything to undermine him). I know it has been asked before, but is there any news yet on what he is doing between the Giro and the Tour? Will he be doing the tour of Switzerland again do you think?

 

[musette]

Except that DC won't be with the first three at the TdF and i don't think Savoldelli will defend his title in this years Giro either (he won't win against Basso, Simoni and/or Cunego with the Giro route in 2006..).

Regardless of the outcome, DC as a team (DSs, cyclists who are trying to be on form) will have tried. They will have arrived at the beginning of the applicable Grand Tour with riders who are in appropriate condition, and they will be racing with a view to winning (when given the strategic choice). That is very important -- the effort to try and win GC, and the willingness to take risks based on that.

I also don't believe that DC, while it prefers an American team leader all other things begin equal, believes an American has to be their leader at the Tour -- this year or in subsequent years. They just want to win the Tour again.

 

[cyclingheroes]

As well as coming second to Armstrong in 2001 he was also runner up in the KOM competition that year (for once bettering Lance in the Tour) so I think it is a good thing, especially considering he is behind schedule due to his knee. It can only be good news that he is still on for the Giro. Providing there are no more setbacks I think Jan can still do it. The course is perfect for him. If he doesn't hit top form until the last week as is the norm with him it won't be the disaster it has been in previous years. Plus there is no LA to intimidate him (which being the nice bloke he is probably did as much as anything to undermine him). I know it has been asked before, but is there any news yet on what he is doing between the Giro and the Tour? Will he be doing the tour of Switzerland again do you think?

JU will probebly ride the Vuelta Asturias (that's what i heard..)

 

[limerickman]

As well as coming second to Armstrong in 2001 he was also runner up in the KOM competition that year (for once bettering Lance in the Tour) so I think it is a good thing, especially considering he is behind schedule due to his knee. It can only be good news that he is still on for the Giro. Providing there are no more setbacks I think Jan can still do it. The course is perfect for him. If he doesn't hit top form until the last week as is the norm with him it won't be the disaster it has been in previous years. Plus there is no LA to intimidate him (which being the nice bloke he is probably did as much as anything to undermine him). I know it has been asked before, but is there any news yet on what he is doing between the Giro and the Tour? Will he be doing the tour of Switzerland again do you think?

I agree with you.

I was worried that JU would drop out at Romandie.

What I am hearing from a contact in the peloton is that JU intends to complete the Giro and to then do a smaller stage races between the Giro and the TDF.
If Ullrich completes the Giro, I think that it's game on.
If this is the case, I believe that JU is determined this year to get to the TDF in the best possible condition and to put in a serious challenge.

 

[moviekindoflife]

Regardless of the outcome, DC as a team (DSs, cyclists who are trying to be on form) will have tried. They will have arrived at the beginning of the applicable Grand Tour with riders who are in appropriate condition, and they will be racing with a view to winning (when given the strategic choice). That is very important -- the effort to try and win GC, and the willingness to take risks based on that.

I also don't believe that DC, while it prefers an American team leader all other things begin equal, believes an American has to be their leader at the Tour -- this year or in subsequent years. They just want to win the Tour again.

some teams can't afford to blow their chances at getting on the podium to try and get first place. note csc's tactics last year: sending jens voigt up the road to get the yellow jersey only to lose him and the jersey completely a few days later, probably as a result of that effort. they probably could have risked everything to unseat lance, but at the expense of losing the 2nd place position and the chance to hold the yellow jersey for the second time, surely this was marketing based.

 

[musette]

You raise an interesting example.

Riis probably didn't think that Voigt would be so depleted that he would not finish within the time limit, once in the yellow jersey in the immediately following stage, and get kicked out of the Tour and be unable to help Basso. Recall that Voigt's going on that breakaway was just before a rest day, so that Riis probably legitimately thought Voigt could try and recover during that day.

I think marketing/sponsor exposure was a big issue. CSC was about to renew through 2008, and Riis could have only thought that more time in the yellow jersey could not hurt. Riis needed the new CSC contract to keep and pay Basso. So sponsor relations were important to the sporting aspect (retention of Basso as team leader) as well. Riis probably knew DC would go after Basso, with the retirement of LA, and he was right.

In addition, Voigt probably really wanted to be in yellow. With the team-based approach of CSC, it would have been harder for Riis to deny Voigt that opportunity than if a non-LA rider at DC/USPS had had a chance to get a personal major accomplishment. That's because Riis has been preaching the core value of teamwork. That meant that, if Voigt had a significant opportunity, Voigt's needs wouldn't necessarily be rendered mooted by the overall goal of getting Basso to win the GC, if Basso's chances were not that good vis a vis LA anyhow. At DC, Voigt's going after the yellow jersey would have been viewed as a waste of domestique energy, unless it served some sort of strategic purpose (e.g., being ahead of LA in case TM sought to drop all domestiques with LA, so that the domestique ahead could wait for LA; diverting other teams into focusing on the domestique in the breakaway and not attacking the team leader).

Only Victor Hugo Pena has been in yellow as LA's domestique, and that was in 2003, when VHP did better than LA in the Prologue and USPS won the TTT.

 

[patch70]

Regardless of the outcome, DC as a team (DSs, cyclists who are trying to be on form) will have tried. They will have arrived at the beginning of the applicable Grand Tour with riders who are in appropriate condition, and they will be racing with a view to winning (when given the strategic choice). That is very important -- the effort to try and win GC, and the willingness to take risks based on that.

Yes, it is great that you alone are able to see that DSC is the only team that actually makes an effort in the Tour. It really is amazing that all the other teams just see the Tour as an excuse to pedal around the nice scenery in France. You'd think by now they'd realise that it is a race! Amazing how stupid some people can be!

P.S. You really should try riding a bike at least once before making any more comments as ridiculous as all your others.

 

[mitosis]

....What has held him back has been preparation and motivation, which go hand in hand.

Not to mention his team. He could easily have won a few more if his team were not split to help support a sprinter (Zabel) and if the team were supporting him instead of chasing individual glory. I don't blame that on the riders but on the management. Godefroote has to cop most of the blame.

You only have to look at leaving Evans out in 2004. With someone like him pacing Ullrich, Ullrich could have thumbed his nose at DC and ridden his own race.

And including Ullrich's mate, the alleged timetrialler who did nothing of consequence in last year's TdeF.

Lots of couldabeens.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Apparently second place is the same as dead last to some. I personally would give my a** to have just ridden and finished the TDF.
I guess I am just not demanding enough.

One should also remember and it was brilliantly articulated in Victor Hugo Pena's book that in the 2003 Tour Ullrich had diarrhea in the opening week including the l'Alpe d'Huez stage...... Pena describes how tough Ullrich was as for the first week his team spent each stage pouring water all over his **** to wash the **** away.... everyone said Ullrich really stunk of **** but what could he do.... this account detailed by Pena is probably the reason he was thrown off USPS..... Ullrich went on to finish 2nd when most riders would of pulled out….

 

[musette]

Ullrich went on to finish 2nd when most riders would of pulled out….[/font][/color]

Most riders are not team leaders. Nor are they team leaders who have committed to a new sponsor and who had just left their old team, which had punished them for taking recreational drugs.

 

[patch70]

Most riders are not team leaders. Nor are they team leaders who have committed to a new sponsor and who had just left their old team, which had punished them for taking recreational drugs.

Yes, you have raced against Lance many times and you know just how easy it is to beat him. Coming 2nd to Lance is a joke. The guy never even rode that hard so it is ridiculous that nobody beat him.

P.S. Please stop posting such stupid rubbish. Try riding a bike for the 1st time...

 

[Eilert Pilarm]

One should also remember and it was brilliantly articulated in Victor Hugo Pena's book that in the 2003 Tour Ullrich had diarrhea in the opening week including the l'Alpe d'Huez stage...... Pena describes how tough Ullrich was as for the first week his team spent each stage pouring water all over his **** to wash the **** away.... everyone said Ullrich really stunk of **** but what could he do.... this account detailed by Pena is probably the reason he was thrown off USPS..... Ullrich went on to finish 2nd when most riders would of pulled out….

holy shite batman...i never knew that.
i need to get this guy's book

that is some awesome sh*t

pun intended of course

 

[cyclingheroes]

One should also remember and it was brilliantly articulated in Victor Hugo Pena's book that in the 2003 Tour Ullrich had diarrhea in the opening week including the l'Alpe d'Huez stage...... Pena describes how tough Ullrich was as for the first week his team spent each stage pouring water all over his **** to wash the **** away.... everyone said Ullrich really stunk of **** but what could he do.... this account detailed by Pena is probably the reason he was thrown off USPS..... Ullrich went on to finish 2nd when most riders would of pulled out….

Yeah that was pretty amazing, by the way it wasn't the only time that Ullrich finished second after being ill during the Tour...

 

[mitosis]

Most riders are not team leaders. Nor are they team leaders who have committed to a new sponsor and who had just left their old team, which had punished them for taking recreational drugs.

As opposed to rewarding them for taking performance enhancing drugs?

 

[Eilert Pilarm]

As opposed to rewarding them for taking performance enhancing drugs?

[andrew dice clay]OH!!!![/dice]

 

[musette]

Yeah that was pretty amazing, by the way it wasn't the only time that Ullrich finished second after being ill during the Tour...

As everybody knows, LA was ill during part of the 2003 Tour as well. As for JU's physical ailments (especially the colds), I'd have to say that either he is not taking care of himself properly if he keeps on having those physical ailments, or his physical vulnerability to colds makes him less suited to winning GC.

 

[micron]

Yes, that's right, the most meticulously prepared rider in the peloton allowed himself to become 'severely dehydrated' by warming up for the TT in the blazing sun and not the shade...

 

[tomkay]

As everybody knows, LA was ill during part of the 2003 Tour as well. As for JU's physical ailments (especially the colds), I'd have to say that either he is not taking care of himself properly if he keeps on having those physical ailments, or his physical vulnerability to colds makes him less suited to winning GC.

Yeah, I heard LA had a bit of an upset stomach at the beginning of the TdF, nothing that serious though. Ullrich on the other hand was severely ill, there was a photo of him climbing up the Alpe d'Huez. You could actually tell by looking at his face that he was not well at all. It's really amazing that he was able to achieve what he did during that Tour. Most other riders would have probably pulled a Mayo and abandoned.

 

[bobke]

As everybody knows, LA was ill during part of the 2003 Tour as well. As for JU's physical ailments (especially the colds), I'd have to say that either he is not taking care of himself properly if he keeps on having those physical ailments, or his physical vulnerability to colds makes him less suited to winning GC.

It's amazing that we have heard of Ullrich's diarrhea only from VHP's book. Whats up with that?

Lance didnt warm up in the sun, it was that Ullrich warmed up in an airconditioned bike shop. Good on their part. I was there BTW and it was over a hundred degress in the shade.
Lance should have planned better with the team, but hey, he won so who cares?