Which Panniers on Your HP Velo SMGT(e)?

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by NYC XYZ, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Hi, All:

    What panniers do you use for the SMGT(e)?

    If both back and underseat rack options are available, but only one
    needs to be utilized, which should it be? I think I read somewhere
    that underseat is preferrable in such a case, owing to lower center of
    gravity or some such reason....

    I'm thinking about commuting on this if the route(s) are feasible! But
    I'll need to lug around each day's office attire, minus shoes (which I
    keep on a shelf under the computer desk); hence the panniers....

    Also, are HP's "Moonbiker" bags EXACTLY Radical Designs' own
    large-sized 'bent bags? Or are they, as per HP's site, specially
    designed to fit on HP's back rack...?

    And what's this talk about waterproof fabrics still necessitating a
    waterproof cover or liner since the bags are stitched and hence may
    "leak" all the same???

    Etc.

    (No, never used panniers in my cycling life before!)


    TIA!
     
    Tags:


  2. NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Hi, All:


    The punctuation in the salutation is odd indeed.

    > What panniers do you use for the SMGT(e)?


    Ask Peter Clinch, Medical Physics IT Officer
    University of Dundee Ninewells Hospital
    Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK

    Or you could just look at his website and read the following:

    "I use a pair of Ortlieb lightweight roll-top panniers on the rear and
    Altura Orkney universals on the lowriders. The Alturas have lots of
    handy pockets for tools and snacks etc, while the Ortliebs are
    completely waterproof for major luggage which needs to stay dry, so the
    combination of the two works well." -
    <http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/tourdunord.htm>.

    > If both back and underseat rack options are available, but only one
    > needs to be utilized, which should it be? I think I read somewhere
    > that underseat is preferrable in such a case, owing to lower center of
    > gravity or some such reason....


    There is more physical space on the back of the bicycle, so these
    panniers could be larger. However, it is generally desirable to keep
    the combined rider/bicycle/cargo center of gravity near the midpoint
    between the two (2) tire contact patches on a SWB bicycle, so heavier
    items are best carried in the underseat panniers.

    > TIA!


    As J. Brandt points out in his inimitable style [2], this should simply
    be written as "Thanks".

    [1] <http://www.ortliebusa.com/>.
    [2]
    <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/ddcec2c5c2cee388?dmode=source>.

    --
    Tom Sherman
     
  3. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    > The punctuation in the salutation is odd indeed.


    Standard business format, I thought. Hell, the Germans use exclamation
    points!

    > Ask Peter Clinch, Medical Physics IT Officer
    > University of Dundee Ninewells Hospital
    > Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    >
    > Or you could just look at his website and read the following:
    >
    > "I use a pair of Ortlieb lightweight roll-top panniers on the rear and
    > Altura Orkney universals on the lowriders. The Alturas have lots of
    > handy pockets for tools and snacks etc, while the Ortliebs are
    > completely waterproof for major luggage which needs to stay dry, so the
    > combination of the two works well." -
    > <http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/tourdunord.htm>.


    Hehehe...thanks! Now I'll pay more attention to sig lines....

    > There is more physical space on the back of the bicycle, so these
    > panniers could be larger. However, it is generally desirable to keep
    > the combined rider/bicycle/cargo center of gravity near the midpoint
    > between the two (2) tire contact patches on a SWB bicycle, so heavier
    > items are best carried in the underseat panniers.


    OK!

    > As J. Brandt points out in his inimitable style [2], this should simply
    > be written as "Thanks".


    OIC!

    > [1] <http://www.ortliebusa.com/>.
    > [2]
    > <http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/ddcec2c5c2cee388?dmode=source>.


    LOL!

    > --
    > Tom Sherman


    THX, CYA L8R!
     
  4. NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
    > >
    > > The punctuation in the salutation is odd indeed.

    >
    > Standard business format, I thought. Hell, the Germans use exclamation
    > points!...


    "Hi, All:" is standard business format?

    When sending a deliverable to a client, I would not use "Hi, [name]:"
    as a salutation in the cover letter - maybe things are done differently
    in NYC?

    --
    Tom Sherman ]
     
  5. ST

    ST Guest

    On 2/18/06 10:49 PM, in article
    [email protected], "NYC XYZ"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > Hi, All:
    >
    > What panniers do you use for the SMGT(e)?
    >
    > If both back and underseat rack options are available, but only one
    > needs to be utilized, which should it be? I think I read somewhere
    > that underseat is preferrable in such a case, owing to lower center of
    > gravity or some such reason....
    >
    > I'm thinking about commuting on this if the route(s) are feasible! But
    > I'll need to lug around each day's office attire, minus shoes (which I
    > keep on a shelf under the computer desk); hence the panniers....
    >
    > Also, are HP's "Moonbiker" bags EXACTLY Radical Designs' own
    > large-sized 'bent bags? Or are they, as per HP's site, specially
    > designed to fit on HP's back rack...?
    >
    > And what's this talk about waterproof fabrics still necessitating a
    > waterproof cover or liner since the bags are stitched and hence may
    > "leak" all the same???
    >
    > Etc.
    >
    > (No, never used panniers in my cycling life before!)
    >
    >
    > TIA!
    >


    Recumbent??

    BARF!!!!!!!
     
  6. ST (who?) anonymously snipes:
    >
    > Recumbent??
    >
    > BARF!!!!!!!


    Recumbent bike/trike riders do not wish to be associated with your
    type.

    --
    Tom Sherman
     
  7. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Hi, All:" is standard business format?


    You mentioned orthography, so yes, the colon is standard business
    format.

    > When sending a deliverable to a client, I would not use "Hi, [name]:"
    > as a salutation in the cover letter


    Now you're talking content -- in which case, yes, actually, that's
    often done too.

    > - maybe things are done differently
    > in NYC?


    Indeed, you'd wonder how anything ever gets done!

    > --
    > Tom Sherman ]
     
  8. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    ST wrote:
    >
    >
    > Recumbent??
    >
    > BARF!!!!!!!



    ?

    I don't understand. What's so bad about comfort?
     
  9. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Thanks again for the advice. Hmm, I wonder why HP's bags cost so much
    more than the same ones, really, direct from the manufacturer?

    I'll really only be taking along the day's office attire...I suppose
    having rear rack bags on either side isn't too much, even for that.
    I'm still a bit nervous about just how low the underseat rack hangs! I
    don't expect to do any touring for years yet, so I'll probably wind up
    removing that underseat rack for now.



    Peter Clinch wrote:
    > Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
    >
    > > Or you could just look at his website and read the following:
    > >
    > > "I use a pair of Ortlieb lightweight roll-top panniers on the rear and
    > > Altura Orkney universals on the lowriders. The Alturas have lots of
    > > handy pockets for tools and snacks etc, while the Ortliebs are
    > > completely waterproof for major luggage which needs to stay dry, so the
    > > combination of the two works well." -
    > > <http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/tourdunord.htm>.

    >
    > I think that's a good combo, but not the only thing to look at. One
    > thing to be sure of is that any panniers you choose will fit on 12mm
    > racks, as that's what the SMGT uses. I had to replace my old Carradice
    > panniers as they only go up to 11mm which is fine for most bikes, but
    > not mine :-(
    >
    > The Ortliebs are the most user-friendly for fitting and dismounting I've
    > found, and are at least as good as anything else in terms of quality.
    > But if you like lots of easy access pockets, not so good. You can get
    > retrofit detachable pockets for them, but IMHO those aren't as easy to
    > use as integral zip fastened pockets on the likes of the Alturas.
    >
    > >>If both back and underseat rack options are available, but only one
    > >>needs to be utilized, which should it be? I think I read somewhere
    > >>that underseat is preferrable in such a case, owing to lower center of
    > >>gravity or some such reason....

    >
    > > There is more physical space on the back of the bicycle, so these
    > > panniers could be larger. However, it is generally desirable to keep
    > > the combined rider/bicycle/cargo center of gravity near the midpoint
    > > between the two (2) tire contact patches on a SWB bicycle, so heavier
    > > items are best carried in the underseat panniers.

    >
    > The SMGT will take full size panniers on the lowrdier racks, but of
    > course "full size" means different things... 20 litre Ortlieb "rear
    > rollers" will fit, at any rate.
    >
    > What Tom says above is true but note the "heavier items" bit. Heavy
    > loads make more sense on the lowriders as they affect handling less
    > (basically, not at all IME), but if it doesn't weigh too much then
    > mounting them behind means the seat tends to keep them out of the wind
    > so your aerodynamics suffer less.
    >
    > Another option for full-on luggage is a recumbent specific pannier like
    > the Radicals, or HPVel's Moonbiker bags (actually made for them by
    > Radical IIRC, though only in Humungous size). Roos uses these on her
    > Fiero for tours and if you've got a big load they work very well,
    > allowing the weight to be set under the rider forward of the rear wheel
    > and being far more aerodynamic than standard panniers. Gotchas are that
    > you need to use them as a pair and they're a PITA to take on and off.
    > For the tour described at
    > http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/tourdunord.htm she just left
    > them on the bike the whole time and unloaded them into the tent for the
    > night, rather than remove the panniers. Fortunately the very long zip
    > access makes this easy to do. You can see pictures of them in action on
    > those tour pages, where you can see that unlike the twin sets on my SMGT
    > the Radicals actually make the bike look cooler when they're mounted!
    >
    > Pete.
    > --
    > Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    > Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    > net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  10. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Thanks again for the advice. Hmm, I wonder why HP's bags cost so much
    > more than the same ones, really, direct from the manufacturer?


    They have a nice logo and you can buy them with the bike is my guess...
    Maybe there are some extra bits done for HPVel, I'm not sure.

    > I'll really only be taking along the day's office attire...I suppose
    > having rear rack bags on either side isn't too much, even for that.


    Why bother with panniers at all? You can get what you need in a
    rack-pack or a seat bag and either will be completely out of the
    airstream behind the seat and/or your head. Ortlieb do a nice
    quick-release rack pack and Radical do seat bags. Either mount and
    dismount very easily.

    > I'm still a bit nervous about just how low the underseat rack hangs!


    I've yet to ground out the luggage, I did catch the propstand while
    riding a daft off-road track behind some sand dunes once, but for the
    most part you can rest assured they're well tested. You have more
    ground clearance than typical pedals on DFs at 6 o'clock.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  11. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Peter Clinch wrote:
    >
    >
    > They have a nice logo and you can buy them with the bike is my guess...
    > Maybe there are some extra bits done for HPVel, I'm not sure.


    That's what I'm wondering -- but no mention is made of any special
    features...as a matter of fact, their description reads almost like a
    cut-n-paste of Radical's own specs! And who wants purple, anyway??
    Something bright should do -- which makes me wonder why there aren't
    any flourescent/neon colors available....

    > Why bother with panniers at all? You can get what you need in a
    > rack-pack or a seat bag and either will be completely out of the
    > airstream behind the seat and/or your head. Ortlieb do a nice
    > quick-release rack pack and Radical do seat bags. Either mount and
    > dismount very easily.


    I didn't want to fold and scrunch up my clothes -- you know, suit and
    tie and so forth; otherwise I could just carry them along in a regular
    backpack!

    > I've yet to ground out the luggage, I did catch the propstand while
    > riding a daft off-road track behind some sand dunes once, but for the
    > most part you can rest assured they're well tested. You have more
    > ground clearance than typical pedals on DFs at 6 o'clock.


    Ah, yes, I'd only just thought of that myself, staring at the DF on the
    wall! I'm scheduled to pick up my SMGTe mid-to-late March, and I'm
    thinking of a million and one things to get in addition.

    BTW, how fast can you go on your SMGT, and for how long? Curious. I
    don't remember the 'bent being any different than an upwrong where
    speed's concerned, though I wasn't at no velodrome, after all. I
    understand there are "issues" or possible issues with hills and keeping
    up with many a wedgie, but I always figured it to be mostly up to the
    rider, as with any other bike. Yet, the local 'bent riders don't seem
    to do more than ~15mph on average! Though they also seem to all be
    middle-aged-and-above chubby types, too.... =)

    > Pete.
    > --
    > Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    > Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    > net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  12. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    [followups trimmed]
    NYC XYZ wrote:

    > That's what I'm wondering -- but no mention is made of any special
    > features...as a matter of fact, their description reads almost like a
    > cut-n-paste of Radical's own specs! And who wants purple, anyway??
    > Something bright should do -- which makes me wonder why there aren't
    > any flourescent/neon colors available...


    Ask Dupont, because they make Cordura and that's what they're made of.
    Like most panniers, in fact, and I can't recall seeing many in fluo.

    > I didn't want to fold and scrunch up my clothes -- you know, suit and
    > tie and so forth; otherwise I could just carry them along in a regular
    > backpack!


    Think about this... if you're not folding your trousers you'll need a
    good yard plus of linear storage. I think you'll have trouble finding
    any panniers that enable you to /not/ fold up your trousers. Folding
    need not equate to "scrunching".

    Also think about how you'll carry your "regular backpack" while sitting
    on a chair with a full backrest...

    > BTW, how fast can you go on your SMGT, and for how long?


    Don't know how fast as I don't have a speedo. I tend not to go
    especially fast, but if I wanted too I'd have a Speedmachine instead
    (tried the new underseat steer version last Saturday, it's a cracker!)
    How long is "until my legs are pumped", which is different from my old
    DF tourer because after 5 hours or so (including breaks) on that I would
    have to stop because of arm and neck discomfort.

    > don't remember the 'bent being any different than an upwrong where
    > speed's concerned, though I wasn't at no velodrome, after all. I
    > understand there are "issues" or possible issues with hills and keeping
    > up with many a wedgie


    The thing about comparisons is not so much that one is faster or slower,
    period, but one is faster than the other in different places. Much like
    a tandem, you'll be slower on climbs relative to a DF solo, but quicker
    coming down, and quicker on the flat into a headwind. If they're
    willing to wait for you at the top of climbs and you're willing to wait
    for them after descents it isn't much of a problem, but you wouldn't fit
    in with a Chain Gang.




    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  13. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    Peter Clinch wrote:
    >
    ><SNIP>
    >
    >
    > Think about this... if you're not folding your trousers you'll need a
    > good yard plus of linear storage. I think you'll have trouble finding
    > any panniers that enable you to /not/ fold up your trousers. Folding
    > need not equate to "scrunching".


    Right you are; I didn't mean it literally, though it's what I wound up
    saying.

    > Also think about how you'll carry your "regular backpack" while sitting
    > on a chair with a full backrest...


    Well, I'd thought I'd just wear it backwards -- or frontwards, I should
    say!

    > Don't know how fast as I don't have a speedo. I tend not to go
    > especially fast, but if I wanted too I'd have a Speedmachine instead
    > (tried the new underseat steer version last Saturday, it's a cracker!)
    > How long is "until my legs are pumped", which is different from my old
    > DF tourer because after 5 hours or so (including breaks) on that I would
    > have to stop because of arm and neck discomfort.


    Hmm. Well, if the SMGTe can average a modest 20 mph, that'll be good
    enough.

    > The thing about comparisons is not so much that one is faster or slower,
    > period, but one is faster than the other in different places. Much like
    > a tandem, you'll be slower on climbs relative to a DF solo, but quicker
    > coming down, and quicker on the flat into a headwind. If they're
    > willing to wait for you at the top of climbs and you're willing to wait
    > for them after descents it isn't much of a problem, but you wouldn't fit
    > in with a Chain Gang.


    Well, as long as I can keep up. I don't mind slower on the hills,
    necessarily -- though I love tackling hills on an upright! -- but I
    plan on doing a lot of these group tours, these centuries and so forth,
    on the SMGTe, and I can't be left behind.

    > --
    > Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    > Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    > Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    > net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  14. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:

    > Right you are; I didn't mean it literally, though it's what I wound up
    > saying.


    If not literally, then a good size rack box riding on the back of a
    suspended bike should give plenty of opportunity for a good fold. Aside
    from anything else, the base will be wider than almost all panniers.

    > Well, I'd thought I'd just wear it backwards -- or frontwards, I should
    > say!


    Possible, but say goodbye to the comfort advantage you've just spent a
    couple of thousand on...

    > Hmm. Well, if the SMGTe can average a modest 20 mph, that'll be good
    > enough.


    That depends on the engine. I don't maintain that sort of speed on
    mine, I don't know if you would or not.

    > Well, as long as I can keep up. I don't mind slower on the hills,
    > necessarily -- though I love tackling hills on an upright! -- but I
    > plan on doing a lot of these group tours, these centuries and so forth,
    > on the SMGTe, and I can't be left behind.


    I've overtaken plenty of wedgies going up hills, but given two basically
    similar engines, one on a light DF tourer and one on a Streetmachine,
    the Streetmachine will probably get left behind. This really shouldn't
    be news at this point...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  15. John Knez

    John Knez Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:
    > Thanks again for the advice. Hmm, I wonder why HP's bags cost so much
    > more than the same ones, really, direct from the manufacturer?
    >
    > I'll really only be taking along the day's office attire...I suppose
    > having rear rack bags on either side isn't too much, even for that.
    > I'm still a bit nervous about just how low the underseat rack hangs! I
    > don't expect to do any touring for years yet, so I'll probably wind up
    > removing that underseat rack for now.
    >
    >


    For commuting with office attire you might want to consider Two Wheel
    Gear's bike garment bag. It goes over the rear rack. See
    http://www.twowheelgear.com/.

    ---
    John Knez
     
  16. NYC XYZ

    NYC XYZ Guest

    John Knez wrote:
    >
    >
    > For commuting with office attire you might want to consider Two Wheel
    > Gear's bike garment bag. It goes over the rear rack. See
    > http://www.twowheelgear.com/.
    >
    > ---
    > John Knez



    Cool, thanks! But then I guess I could just use my own pre-existing,
    non-bike-specific garment bag, only have to "jimmy" it around the
    bike...?
     
  17. John Knez

    John Knez Guest

    NYC XYZ wrote:

    > Cool, thanks! But then I guess I could just use my own pre-existing,
    > non-bike-specific garment bag, only have to "jimmy" it around the
    > bike...?
    >


    You probably could. I haven't seen one of these in person, but I'm
    assuming this bag has some bike specific features that might be nice to
    have. Whether they're nice enough to pay $130 for I couldn't say. I
    guess it depends partly on how easy it is to adapt your current garment
    bag to your rear rack.

    ---
    John Knez
     
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