Which powermeter for climber ?

SolarEnergy said:

Mainly considering Quality/price ratio. Which powermeter would you recommend for a climber?

I love powertap, but is this the best choice, to add a 1 pound gear to a bike, knowing that the rider will participate to events such as Mnt Whiteface, Mnt Whashington etc... ?

Thanks a lot

ergomo has a built in altimeter and the display shows you the actual elevation, the actual climbrate in % and the cummulative climbed feet total of your trip so far- I think that is not a bad tool - for instance in Europe there is currently the Tour Trans Alp - where many of the best riders have the ergomo for this reason.😉

Chhhheeers,

Tom Anhalt said:

Actually...I'm glad you pointed that out since, if anything, it highlights the dangers of making conclusions based on abstracts. I'm assuming you haven't read the entire paper, correct? If not, I can send you a copy.

I didn't even read the entire abstract, just the conclusion :o

Tom Anhalt said:

So...what are we left with? First...the Polar doesn't do so well on trainers. OK, we know that.

All right.

Tom Anhalt said:

"In addition, the S710 appears to have a better accuracy than Powertap, reported to read 8% higher than SRM."

nice uppercut 😄

Tom Anhalt said:

Actually, IMHO the BEST and most reasoned comparison of all the powermeter options is in a chapter of Hunter Allen and Andy Coggan's book "Racing and Training with a Powermeter". If you're planning on diving into buying a powermeter, I HIGHLY recommend getting that book just for that chapter alone.

Ordered it in may, was bo in Canada until I don't know when. But it should be fine now. Actually I finish this, and then order it.

Thanks a lot Tom, it's a pleasure arguing with you 😉

NGART said:

ergomo has a built in altimeter and the display shows you the actual elevation, the actual climbrate in % and the cummulative climbed feet total of your trip so far- I think that is not a bad tool - for instance in Europe there is currently the Tour Trans Alp - where many of the best riders have the ergomo for this reason.😉

Chhhheeers,

I like the idea of real time NP calculation too I must admit.

Thanks

C'mon, where are the iBike-ers in all this? For the weight conscious, that has to be a no-brainer, and I'd expect climbing to be an optimal condition for the device's accuracy. Let's get out of the box a bit here, people. 🙂

frenchyge said:

C'mon, where are the iBike-ers in all this? For the weight conscious, that has to be a no-brainer, and I'd expect climbing to be an optimal condition for the device's accuracy. Let's get out of the box a bit here, people. 🙂

Well...seeing as how nobody has one yet...it'd be hard to recommend, huh?

So far, that device could best be described by the term "Vaporware".

If you want something really light that actually gives reasonable "guesstimate" of power for extended climbing, I've got an old Ciclosport CM416M (a HAC4 w/o heart rate) I'll sell real cheap!

One caveat...the power is reported in 20W increments and recorded at 20 sec intervals...hopefully, that won't be a problem 😉

Tom Anhalt said:

So far, that device could best be described by the term "Vaporware".

Wow... sounds light. Perfect for climbers. 😉

According to the iBike FAQ, the weight advantage is significant enough that you will easily be able to drop users of other powermeters. Watch out, Ullrich and Basso!

6. How much is the weight advantage of the iBike Pro?

The iBike Pro weighs only 58 grams (2 ounces). Though competitive units vary slightly, on average they weigh about 220 grams (one half pound) more than the iBike Pro.

Please, be sure to wave politely as you pass competitors weighted down by old-style power meters.

Tom Anhalt said:

One caveat...the power is reported in 20W increments and recorded at 20 sec intervals...hopefully, that won't be a problem 😉

I have a HAC4 and, since the power data are basically worthless it's a real problem that it is not recorded more frequently. But, it has a cool look, so I don't want to get rid of it.😄

Tom Anhalt said:

...
One caveat...the power is reported in 20W increments and recorded at 20 sec intervals...hopefully, that won't be a problem 😉

Wow, sounds about as accurate as a Polar.

JUST KIDDING! :p

Best PM for a climber? That'd be my PT SL... when it's in Wisconsin for four weeks instead of on my bike. 🙁 The computer and receiver weigh next to nothing.

Landis had his powerTap on for the 1st really significant mountain TdF Stage 11 Tarbes - Val d'Aran / Pla-de-Beret and gained the yellow jersey so that worked out pretty good for him.. they have to keep to the 16kg min UCI legal limit.. so he must have just lightened up on other components...

He probably got scared when the officials announced that they'd be weighing the first 5 finishing bikes, and stopped for a wheel change to put on the PT Pro wheel. :p

Tom Anhalt said:

Here are 2 quotes directly out of the paper:

"In addition, the S710 appears to have a better accuracy than Powertap, reported to read 8% higher than SRM."

"The present results show that the S710 is a highly reliable powermeter. The repeatability of S710 appears better than some other devices (e.g. Kingcycle, Politechnika, Monark) available for recording power output, but similar to the SRM."

If i recall correctly (and hey, i may not), Greg's paper cite's a paper by Carl P to arrive at the quote about the PT being 8% higher than the SRM. I can't recall the title of that paper (something about testing protocols), but essentially, the paper by Carl is incorrect. It wasn't until he sent his SRM to the AIS that they found out that the SRM was wrongly calibrated. The paper showed that data from the SRM and Kingcycle was very similar (KC's are generally out by about 10%).

sorry, if the above seems rambling. on a tight time budget. back to Tour work!

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

If i recall correctly (and hey, i may not), Greg's paper cite's a paper by Carl P to arrive at the quote about the PT being 8% higher than the SRM. I can't recall the title of that paper (something about testing protocols), but essentially, the paper by Carl is incorrect. It wasn't until he sent his SRM to the AIS that they found out that the SRM was wrongly calibrated. The paper showed that data from the SRM and Kingcycle was very similar (KC's are generally out by about 10%).

sorry, if the above seems rambling. on a tight time budget. back to Tour work!

ric

...and that makes me even more suspicious about the calibration of the SRM used in the Polar vs. SRM study as I alluded to earlier:

Quoted post said:

The other part was an uphill "field test". In short, for this the Polar read higher than the SRM by a consistant percentage. That tells me one of 2 things, either the "slope" setting of the SRM was off, or one of the values (chain weight, chain length, or chainstay length) entered into the Polar was incorrect. No info was given in the study about how they mounted the Polar and what values were put into the head. It's very possible that they didn't abide by the later recommendation that the chain be no further from the sensor that 30 mm. Additionally, although the authors state that "Prior to each trial, the SRM crankset was calibrated according to the manufacturer's recommended procedures", I've got a feeling they're just talking about resetting the zero offset. I highly doubt they hung weights and did a multipoint slope check. It's well known that very few SRMs come from the factory with the correct slope setting. I know of many people (coaches) that do a full calibration on any SRM they buy new.

Ric, any insights into the calibration of the SRM used in the Polar vs. SRM study?

doctorSpoc said:

16kg min UCI legal limit.. .

rider included? 😄

I recently switch from the Polar to Powertap SL. It was well worth it. 1.26 second recoding rates vs. 5 seconds is a huge plus. Being able to view average power during your ride and viewing interval info on the fly makes it more useful than the Polar. I finally get accurate 5 and 10 second averages.

SolarEnergy said:

Mainly considering Quality/price ratio. Which powermeter would you recommend for a climber?

I love powertap, but is this the best choice, to add a 1 pound gear to a bike, knowing that the rider will participate to events such as Mnt Whiteface, Mnt Whashington etc... ?

Thanks a lot

Hi there,
check this out:
[font=Arial]Tour Transalp: Team ergomo comes even closer to the top[/font]

[font=Arial] [/font]

[font=Arial][img]ergomo.netTransalp beide jaufenpass.jpgOpen ↗[/img]Although the third stage was the shortest of all with about 90 km the riders had to climb 3100 m altitude difference which was about the same as the stage before. On extremely steep ramps two Alpine passes had to be climbed: The Würzjoch on 1.987 m and in the end the ascent to the Furkelpass on 1.737 m above sea level.[/font]

[font=Arial]Right at the beginning Team ergomo had to deal with the longest ascent of the tour: 35 km always uphill with 1.400 m altitude difference. Christian and Christoph recovered very well and had a very good start into the race. At the top of the pass a group of seven teams formed up and took the lead. Some teams tried to break away but Christian Schrot and Christoph Schwerdt caught up with every rider of the group. Through their ergomo power meter they were always able to control their watt power and their performance and knew what they could dare. That is why they held a constant speed and power between 300 and 350 watts during their climbs and could overtake a lot of competitors. After the first Alpine pass the leading group stayed together for about 60 hilly kilometres. At the last ascent the elimination race began and every team had to look after itself. Team ergomo cope unbelievably well with the steep ramps that had a gradient of up to 19%. A completely exhausted Christian Schrot told after the race: “The ascent to the last pass, the Furkelpass was like hell because we had already climbed many meters of altitude difference before. But Christoph and I had a good orientation with the ergomo and could always have a look on our watt power. The altimeter in the ergomo is very precise and so we always knew what was coming and when we would reach the top of the passes”.[/font]

[font=Arial]The third stage was the strongest of Team ergomo so far. They came 6th and could win plenty of time over some favourite teams from last year. All together they are in 8th position and seem well prepared for stage number four.[/font]

I have read that they made the 7th place total after all stages...
Not bad at all. I thought I share this,
cheers,

How come there are no Ergomos in the TdF? Riders from several teams use SRMs and only one team that is clearly sponsored by CycleOps uses PTs.

Squint said:

How come there are no Ergomos in the TdF? Riders from several teams use SRMs and only one team that is clearly sponsored by CycleOps uses PTs.

Well, if you lined up all the available PMs and said, "Take your choice, they're all free." wouldn't most riders take the SRM? I would.

Squint said:

How come there are no Ergomos in the TdF?

Well, look at the jersey colors. Yuck. 🙁

frenchyge said:

Well, look at the jersey colors. Yuck. 🙁

Hey,
that was a very intelligent statement frenchyge!😕 Nothing to do with the topic I guess.😄