Which pro athlete do you dislike the most?

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by Pendejo, May 10, 2007.

  1. kdelong

    kdelong Well-Known Member

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    Wow! You really don't like Nascar, do you? Well, let's bury the hatchet and let me take you down to Charlotte, NC for a little bike ride, OK? By the way, did you ever see the movie Deliverence:eek: ?
     


  2. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Support for the troops and dissent for the war are not mutually exclusive. The troops doing their jobs honestly, legally, and with integrity deserve support. It is incumbent upon these troops, though, to recognize illegal orders and not obey them as is required of them.

    A fact of human existence, at least for now, is that armies are needed. Therefore, there is a need for people to do those jobs. It is not the fault of the soldiers that they're used as political tools.

    With that said, I don't value a soldier's life more than I value an innocent civilian's life. In my book they are the same. As such, that the US has failed to take into account all of the innocent Iraqis that have died, that the US has failed to acknowledge that large number is evidence of US hypocrisy. All life is valuable, and the loss of any innocent human life is a tragedy, whether or not that human wore a US flag on his/her shoulder or not.
     
  3. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    I completely agree all human life is equaly valuable. Part of my duties include dealing with human remains, friend of foe they are both treated with the same respect. Illegal orders are just that illegal, to follow them makes you in the wrong it is our job as soldiers to make the moral choices when able.
     
  4. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    I will remind you that opposition to the war is now at 60-75% of Americans, depending on whose poll you look at. That's called a majority, and a very big one...not a minority.

    As of May 6, 2007, CNN has it at 65% Oppose, 34% Favor when asked, "Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war in Iraq?" In fact, opinions have been about 2 to 1 against the war for the past year at least.

    http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

    So we see that your above assertion is either grossly inaccurate, purposefully untrue, or delusional.








     
  5. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    I don't mean to insult your reading ability but as Alienator so nicely pointed out there is a differance between supporting the war and supporting our troops. I was very specific in saying support the troops.
     
  6. janiejones

    janiejones New Member

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    who is CNN asking?
     
  7. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    "N=1,028 adults nationwide." - according to the link I provided. This is standard polling practice. 1,000-1,300 is considered a statistically accurate sample of the population.


     
  8. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    Why don't you explain to us exactly what "supporting the troops" means to you, while in the same breath you're saying you don't support the war?

    #1 - If it takes troops to conduct a war,

    and...

    #2 - you are against that war,

    then...

    ...how can you be "for" the troops that are carrying out the very action that you claim to be against? It's the question I asked earlier that went unanswered: "Please explain how one is supposed to divorce a person from their actions."

    I've already mentioned that I was in the U.S. Army. My Military Occupational Specialty was 96B (Intelligence Analyst), Honorably Discharged, and with several commendations. Of course I am for supporting our troops, but not when they're conducting illegal, unneccesary, unjustified operations that in the case of Iraq rise to the level of war crimes.

    To say that you support the troops but not the war is a cowardly way to hedge your bets, but you and many others (including politicians) cannot have it both ways. You cannot claim some feel-good patriotism by saying "I support the troops...rah!, rah!, rah!" when those "troops" are committing heinous crimes carried out as a matter of ongoing official policy.

    To a certain extent, yes, the military has always been a pawn of those in power. But as I said earlier, at some point there is a responsibility to be taken by those in the military to make a choice. Today's military is volunteer, they're not forced to join. Once they're in, they can also choose not to commit torture and the rampant murder that is happening now in Iraq as we speak.

    People like to spew words like "heroes" and "bravery" as if they're so much candy tossed around at a parade. True heroism and real bravery is refusing to commit Bu$hCo's war crimes.
     
  9. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    Because not every troop is comitting a war crime. Not every troop is a bad person. They are sons, daughters, fathers and sons. The war is happening, it is their duty to fight that war. But they did not choose the war, they are simply doing what they promised to do. Running to canada makes them liars, they, we took an oath when we joined to do this type of thing if the call came and it did. It is very easy to say I wish we weren't in iraq but I support all those that honorable conduct themselves in this less than desireable situation. You mention war crimes constantly. You know not everyone has commited a war crime, the vast majority don't. Most of us follow the rules and as such shouldn't be held accountable for the few bad apples that don't. Even alienator who I honestly expected to be on your side experessed that distaste for the war and support of those fighting it were not mutualy exclusive. I know this is going to come as a surprise to you but after 4 months there I didn't see a single war crime. Not one, noone was tortured, injured, attacked etc. We worked hand in hand with local country nationals and the worst thing I saw were two marriages and a guy who tried to take an illegal soda or two. Yes on the front lines things are much more violent/voletile but I still suspect most conduct themselves honorably and within the rules.
    Speaking of sports, anyone else find it odd that tommy morrison is sudenly HIV negative. I hope it's true but no matter what it's 11 years to late imho.
     
  10. Pendejo

    Pendejo Member

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    Well, now that my own thread has gotten completely off target, I might as well chime in. To me, a country's most valuable resource is the men and women who are willing to put their lives on the line for it. A country that values that resource, that really "supports the troops," only puts those lives at risk when it's the only feasible way to bring a "greater" good, and when it does so it does everything in its power to minimize the danger and its after-effects on those lives.

    My country, the U.S., fails on both those counts. Our country threw 50,000 soldiers into the shredder for nothing in Vietnam, and pretty much abandoned the ones who managed to make it home. The same thing is going on now in Iraq. We won the war we started there, whether or not it was justified. Now the Iraquis are engaged in a guerilla war against the Iraqui "government," as well as numerous civil wars against themselves. Our soldiers are nothing but sitting ducks in the middle of a lethal cesspool.

    It doesn't matter how long we keep troops there, how many more of them die, or how many more billions we pour into that hole. Sooner or later we will have to pull out, and when we do it's all going to hell (as if it weren't there now). There is no good reason at all for allowing more of our soldiers to die there. The government that does so doesn't support our troops--it's the opposite. Our government doesn't value them at all.
     
  11. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    Sorry to so badly hijack the thread. I think at this point nothing is really going to be learned on either side about the war. I will continue to do my job and simply ignore the vocal minority. So back on topic for me for the rest of the thread.
    Unfortunately I have no other athletes I really dislike. I'm surprised barry bonds didn't come up more though.
     
  12. Meek One

    Meek One New Member

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    I ride by areas taken directly out of Deliverence daily.. :eek:

    Thinking I am going to be axe murdered keeps the ole HR up...well that and the roaming Pit Bulls. :mad:
     
  13. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    Just where is that "vocal minority" happening...on Planet Neo Con? :rolleyes: You've already been proven wrong about that, hence your statement goes to show your level of delusion.
     
  14. n2t

    n2t New Member

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    I resubmit that your literacy is in question. Good game cavs vs pistons last night. Little upset by the no call at the end. I'm rather hoping pistons win as cavs will be eaten by either spurs or jazz, however I think jazz pistons is much more exciting than 68-70 scores well see in detroit vs spurs.
     
  15. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    You didn't "submit" or prove anything. Only delusional right-wing jingoism and non-answers.
     
  16. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't think n2t has done anything offensive; however, you have been a bit rabid in your attacks on him. And I think that's a bit out of place. Your comments have been just as full of left-wing jingoism as anyone else's has been full of right-wing jingoism....and just as constructive.
     
  17. Wurm

    Wurm New Member

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    I think not, alienator, so I guess this is where you and I part ways.

    jingoism
    Extreme and emotional nationalism, or chauvinism, often characterized by an aggressive foreign policy, accompanied by an eagerness to wage war.
    n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jingoism


    chau·vin·ism
    zealous and aggressive patriotism or blind enthusiasm for military glory.

    Militant devotion to and glorification of one's country; fanatical patriotism.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chauvinism
     
  18. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    No, it applies exactly to what you are doing and saying: you are conducting a war of words and of little thought, with your own sense of nationalism as your flag and battle cry. That you aren't firing a gun means little. Your just as disruptive and just as much a hurdle to people of differing opinions coming together as warfare is.

    All of this is exemplified by your statement that someone can't oppose war yet support troops, a statement which you cannot support, prove, or otherwise base on anything other than your extreme viewpoint. Your viewpoint is akin to saying that all cops are guilty when one cop beats a prisoner. In fact your viewpoint is coucher exactly the same as those that mistakenly think that all soldiers are heros no matter what. The only difference is you've chosen to take stance diametricly opposed to the other.

    I think your spittle spraying does little to help liberal causes, and your presumption that you know what is in someone's mind when they enlist is farcical at best.

    FWIW, we can't part ways because we never shared them. I, unlike you, have my own thoughts. Some may be similar to those of others, but that doesn't mean we've shared ways. Nope. Sorry. I'm not so easily pigeon-holed as you might like. I also don't believe that all republicans are the same, that all democrats are the same. I don't think that all black, white, or orange people think the same, nor do I think that all soldiers are evil or innocent.
     
  19. foe

    foe New Member

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    ok i fully understand hating racist atheltes......but as for hating some becuase they go around thinking they are better then every1 else.......errr thats becuase they are! like the next person i dont like cocky ass-wipes but i think you have to respect there ability and if thats the way they want to be they are entititled to do so - they are better and thats why they get paid.
     
  20. kdelong

    kdelong Well-Known Member

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    I cannot say I really dislike Ken Griffey Jr of the Reds, but he does rub me the wrong way. He was, and sometimes is still a great ball player. Unfortunately he has become very fragile and spends more time on the DL than in the line-up. If you're going to be hurt more than half the season, maybe it's time to think about doing something else.
     
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