white LED front light, with standby for hub dynamo?

[bugbear]

Is there such a thing at a sane price?

As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp

Should be around 20-25 quid.

Does it (yet) exist in the market?

If not, what's the best presently available?

BugBear

 

[Peter Clinch]

bugbear wrote:
> Is there such a thing at a sane price?

Given you subsequently suggest...

> Should be around 20-25 quid.

.... I guess that'll be a "no". But having said that you'd be looking at
a conventional bulb and no standlight for a good quality dynamo lamp at
that price range. The limiting electronics won't cost nearly as much as
is being charged for them (batteries can assume a fairly contsant and
stable current, dynamos can't), but they are something you want.

> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>
> If not, what's the best presently available?

The new B&M IQ Fly Plus looks to be pretty good and is £40, probably a
fair bit less in Germany.

Pete,
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[renum]

bugbear wrote:
> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>
> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>
> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>
> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>
> If not, what's the best presently available?
>


There are a few LED dynamo lights with standlight available, have a look
at www.bumm.de which probably make the more popular (and expensive)
ones. The current high end (=brightest) dynamo light is the Lumotec IQ
Fly, but that will cost you around 40-55 quid for the hub dynamo
senso/standlight version, and add to that a rear light, which you will
need, or the magic blue smoke will escape from your front led light.
You'll usually find the best prices for these things ordered from
germany, ebay or otherwise, or if you can find them in stock in the uk
at places like:
http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP4015.aspx

 

[Dave Larrington]

In news:[email protected],
renum <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> There are a few LED dynamo lights with standlight available, have a
> look at www.bumm.de which probably make the more popular (and
> expensive) ones. The current high end (=brightest) dynamo light is
> the Lumotec IQ Fly, but that will cost you around 40-55 quid for the
> hub dynamo senso/standlight version, and add to that a rear light,
> which you will need, or the magic blue smoke will escape from your
> front led light.

I've been using a B&M LED front light without a rear for a couple of years
and the magic smoke is still safely wrapped up inside.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Putting just the right amount of gin in your goldfish bowl makes
the fishies' eyes bulge and causes them to swim in a very
amusing manner.

 

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-12-14, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
> that price range. The limiting electronics won't cost nearly as much as
> is being charged for them (batteries can assume a fairly contsant and
> stable current, dynamos can't), but they are something you want.

For an LED, the limiting electronics are likely the same whether you
have a battery powered or dynamo powered light. High power LEDs aren't
current limited by a simple resistor (like a small indicator LED),
because this would waste masses of power in the resistor. Instead, even
battery powered LED illuminators have a switch mode regulator. The
generic LED switch mode regulator takes a pretty wide input voltage, and
smoothed DC output from a dynamo will suitably drive many of these. The
regulators themselves are actually pretty cheap.

So for a standlight, all that's needed is a battery and a method to
switch to battery power when the dynamo voltage falls below a certain
threshold.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

 

[bugbear]

Dylan Smith wrote:
> On 2007-12-14, Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> that price range. The limiting electronics won't cost nearly as much as
>> is being charged for them (batteries can assume a fairly contsant and
>> stable current, dynamos can't), but they are something you want.
>
> For an LED, the limiting electronics are likely the same whether you
> have a battery powered or dynamo powered light. High power LEDs aren't
> current limited by a simple resistor (like a small indicator LED),
> because this would waste masses of power in the resistor. Instead, even
> battery powered LED illuminators have a switch mode regulator. The
> generic LED switch mode regulator takes a pretty wide input voltage, and
> smoothed DC output from a dynamo will suitably drive many of these. The
> regulators themselves are actually pretty cheap.

With the growing mass production of LED lighting,
I was expecting this to happen; the regulators
should become a cheap commodity item.

> So for a standlight, all that's needed is a battery and a method to
> switch to battery power when the dynamo voltage falls below a certain
> threshold.

I was sort-of hoping for a biggish capacitor,
giving a short (but useful) stand time, perhaps
driving only 2 out of 5 LED's (in a 5 led lamp).

Although I suppose the life of a battery used
only for "stand" would be VERY long.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

renum wrote:
> bugbear wrote:
>> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>>
>> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
>> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
>> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
>> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>>
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>>
>> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>>
>> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>>
>> If not, what's the best presently available?
>>
>
>
> There are a few LED dynamo lights with standlight available, have a look
> at www.bumm.de which probably make the more popular (and expensive)
> ones. The current high end (=brightest) dynamo light is the Lumotec IQ
> Fly

Bizarrely, I'm not too worried about "maximum" light,
just "enough". My current 6V, 3W halogen provides easily
enough for comfortable and confident riding.

My priorities now are convenience and bulb life,
and a stand light.

My "thought" was that with the lower power consumption
of equivalent LUX led to my existing light, stand
might be easily done.

BugBear

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Dave Larrington wrote:
>> hub dynamo senso/standlight version, and add to that a rear light,
>> which you will need, or the magic blue smoke will escape from your
>> front led light.
>
>I've been using a B&M LED front light without a rear for a couple of years
>and the magic smoke is still safely wrapped up inside.

Apparently there was a problem with an early batch of DLumotecs where part
of the circuitry inside could overheat and unsolder itself, leaving the
light working but more likely to fail in future because the protection
wasn't there.
http://lists.topica.com/lists/bikecurrent/read/message.html?mid=812887054&sort=d&start=12372

(It also stopped a secondary halogen light in series working properly,
though I don't understand the details, which is how I found out about the
problem. The B&M importer swapped it for one which doesn't rattle and
does work with a secondary light. I'm using it without a rear light, but
I'm using a 2.4w hub dynamo, not a 3W (because it was cheap in LBS closing
sale - £55, built into a wheel, with light).)

 

[Peter Clinch]

bugbear wrote:
>
> Although I suppose the life of a battery used
> only for "stand" would be VERY long.

It's a bit manual compared to doing it "properly", but on he Brom (w/out
standlight) a have a small cheap and nasty 1 LED flasher on the bars,
mounted just next to the grip where I can thumb it into action when I
stop. Seems to do the business.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-12-14, bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
> With the growing mass production of LED lighting,
> I was expecting this to happen; the regulators
> should become a cheap commodity item.

The actual chips themselves are less than a pound from Farnell in
quantities of 1 (you also need a couple of discrete components, an
inductor, schottky diode and sense resistor, but these aren't
expensive).

> I was sort-of hoping for a biggish capacitor,
> giving a short (but useful) stand time, perhaps
> driving only 2 out of 5 LED's (in a 5 led lamp).

It'd have to be a pretty enormous capacitor: at low voltages, you don't
get many joules per farad of charge. A 10 farad supercapacitor at 6v
would only store 180 joules, and with a 3 watt light that's only 60
seconds worth assuming 100% efficiency (also, capacitor voltages fall
as soon as you start to take charge off them, unlike a battery which
tends to retain its rated voltage until significantly discharged).
Also, supercapacitors tend to be very low voltage rated (2.5 volts)
so you'd need a collection of them.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

 

[bugbear]

Dylan Smith wrote:
> On 2007-12-14, bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
>> With the growing mass production of LED lighting,
>> I was expecting this to happen; the regulators
>> should become a cheap commodity item.
>
> The actual chips themselves are less than a pound from Farnell in
> quantities of 1 (you also need a couple of discrete components, an
> inductor, schottky diode and sense resistor, but these aren't
> expensive).
>
>> I was sort-of hoping for a biggish capacitor,
>> giving a short (but useful) stand time, perhaps
>> driving only 2 out of 5 LED's (in a 5 led lamp).
>
> It'd have to be a pretty enormous capacitor: at low voltages, you don't
> get many joules per farad of charge. A 10 farad supercapacitor at 6v
> would only store 180 joules, and with a 3 watt light that's only 60
> seconds worth assuming 100% efficiency

hmm. Given the purpose of a "stand light", dropping down
from 3 watts (which should be MANY lux) for travelling
to 1 watt (which is enough to be seen) raises that
to 180 seconds, or 3 minutes, which sounds
quite interesting.

> (also, capacitor voltages fall
> as soon as you start to take charge off them, unlike a battery which
> tends to retain its rated voltage until significantly discharged).
> Also, supercapacitors tend to be very low voltage rated (2.5 volts)
> so you'd need a collection of them.

Well, I was sort-of-supposing the intervention of
a highly efficient regulator/voltage converter chip,
which may-or-may not exist

BugBear

 

[Alan Braggins]

In article <[email protected]>, Dylan Smith wrote:
>
>> I was sort-of hoping for a biggish capacitor,
>> giving a short (but useful) stand time, perhaps
>> driving only 2 out of 5 LED's (in a 5 led lamp).
>
>It'd have to be a pretty enormous capacitor: at low voltages, you don't
>get many joules per farad of charge. A 10 farad supercapacitor at 6v
>would only store 180 joules, and with a 3 watt light that's only 60
>seconds worth assuming 100% efficiency (also, capacitor voltages fall
>as soon as you start to take charge off them, unlike a battery which
>tends to retain its rated voltage until significantly discharged).
>Also, supercapacitors tend to be very low voltage rated (2.5 volts)
>so you'd need a collection of them.

Modern supercapacitors are surprisingly small, physically. Look inside
a B+M dynamo light with standlight and I doubt you'll find a battery.
Obviously, they don't drive the light at the full 3W in standlight mode.
And you can get considerably more than 10F ones:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=589-1014-ND
is something you might plausibly use in a bike light, though the 5000F isn't:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=ESHSP-5000C0-002R7-ND

 

[Craig Wallace]

bugbear wrote:
> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>
> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>
> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>
> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>
> If not, what's the best presently available?
>
> BugBear

I do agree that the IQ Fly is rather good, but if you want something
cheaper, you can get the Basta Pilot Steady LED with standlight for £25
from SJS Cycles:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-...h-On-Off-switch--Standlight-version-12585.htm

I've never used one, so no idea if its any good, or how bright it is.

 

[TerryJ]

> > Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>
> > As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
> > white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
> > with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
> > suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:

For much less than 10gbp you can get basic led lights, then you will
have not only standlights but also a backup light for when the main
system fails.Nothing always works.

TerryJ
>

 

[Zog The Undeniable]

bugbear wrote:
> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>
> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>
> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>
> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>
> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>
> If not, what's the best presently available?

The *best* is probably the latest version of the Supernova E3, a mere
£130 or so if you order direct from the German manufacturers.

 

[bugbear]

Zog The Undeniable wrote:
> bugbear wrote:
>> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>>
>> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
>> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
>> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
>> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>>
>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>>
>> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>>
>> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>>
>> If not, what's the best presently available?
>
> The *best* is probably the latest version of the Supernova E3, a mere
> £130 or so if you order direct from the German manufacturers.

If value for money is a factor in quality assesment,
that ain't the best.

BugBear (Waxing philosophoical)

 

[bugbear]

TerryJ wrote:
>>> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>>> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
>>> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
>>> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
>>> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>
> For much less than 10gbp you can get basic led lights, then you will
> have not only standlights but also a backup light for when the main
> system fails.Nothing always works.

True enough, but I have finite handle bar space...

BugBear

 

[Tosspot]

bugbear wrote:
> renum wrote:
>> bugbear wrote:
>>> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>>>
>>> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
>>> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
>>> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
>>> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>>>
>>> http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp
>>>
>>> Should be around 20-25 quid.
>>>
>>> Does it (yet) exist in the market?
>>>
>>> If not, what's the best presently available?
>>>
>>
>>
>> There are a few LED dynamo lights with standlight available, have a
>> look at www.bumm.de which probably make the more popular (and
>> expensive) ones. The current high end (=brightest) dynamo light is the
>> Lumotec IQ Fly
>
> Bizarrely, I'm not too worried about "maximum" light,
> just "enough". My current 6V, 3W halogen provides easily
> enough for comfortable and confident riding.
>
> My priorities now are convenience and bulb life,
> and a stand light.
>
> My "thought" was that with the lower power consumption
> of equivalent LUX led to my existing light, stand
> might be easily done.

Haven't looked, but I ride the 'normal' LED B+M Senso Plus jobby, and
while noticeably dimmer than the halogen equivalent, still gives
serviceable (just) light for unlit forest tracks.

 

[Tosspot]

bugbear wrote:
> TerryJ wrote:
>>>> Is there such a thing at a sane price?
>>>> As I understand matters (and looking at commercial
>>>> white LED torch prices) an LED front light,
>>>> with a Capacitor to maintain light at junctions,
>>>> suitable for wiring to (e.g.) one of these:
>>
>> For much less than 10gbp you can get basic led lights, then you will
>> have not only standlights but also a backup light for when the main
>> system fails.Nothing always works.
>
> True enough, but I have finite handle bar space...

Well stop being pikey and buy bigger handlebars!