Who has the best waterproof and breathable jacket?

[chris c]

I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness of
it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I don't
want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all

 

[Denis K]

You are possibly right in your conclusion about Gore-Tex, however,
before you completely dismiss materials of this nature you need to
consider one additional thing. Like a lot of people I think the
marketing claims for Gore-Tex fabrics are way overblown. However, it
is still a reasonable fabric for keeping you alive in cold wet
conditions where it would otherwise be impossible for you to get inside
out of the elements. You may not be comfortable but you can stay
alive.

Denis K

 

[OughtFour]

chris c wrote:
> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this
> possible? I just went through the old postings on google and many
> said the gore tex is not worth it.

I am not a connoisseur of gore tex, but I have one of these jackets and it
is probably my favorite piece of clothing, period. It is made of REI's
gore-tex clone. These fabrics do require extra care, and I understand that
they don't last forever, but I can't imagine doing without it.

I wear a light wicking layer underneath, which takes care of moisture. I
don't exactly seek out heavy rain, and I suppose in a real monsoon the
jacket would not be able to breath, but the times I have been caught in
storms this get-up has worked perfectly (not so protection for head and
feet). Not comfortable for much over 60 degrees F., though.

I'd get one that is just a shell (you can layer) with plenty of vents and
zips to regulate internal temp and moisture, and design features like
adjustable cuffs and zipper guards to prevent water infiltration.

I think this stuff is great. Does anyone have a better alternative?

 

[Pat in TX]

"chris c" <>I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this
possible? I
> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness
> of
> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I
> don't
> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all

I have the last year's Pearl Izumi waterproof jacket and took it on a tour
to Ireland. Out of 11 days riding, we got rained on 3 days (hard rain, too).
As I had been told that I would get wet on the inside from sweating, I
unzipped the pit zips quite a bit. The jacket was great! It's not Gore-Tex,
but it worked like it is supposed to and the rain did not come in through
the open pit zips, either. Another thing that was good about it is that it
was a terrific windbreaker. The only drawback I have for their jacket is the
lack of pockets. What is it about Pearl Izumi and pockets anyway? I have
their Zephrr jacket and it doesn't have pockets, either. I am talking about
their 2005 jacket. I understand they have changed it slightly for 2006, so I
don't have any feedback on that one. I used a shower cap over my h*lm*t and
that worked great, too.

Pat in TX
>
>

 

[Fritz M]

chris c wrote:
> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE!

Anything waterproof is only minimally breathable. For heavy or cold
wet, I use a waterproof shell. For light rain or snow, I use an REI
breathable poly jacket with DWR (durable water repellant) coating on
it.

If it's hot and raining, I just get wet -- it's not like I'll melt or
anything.

RFM

 

[[email protected]]

Fritz M wrote:
> chris c wrote:
> > I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE!
>

If you look waterproof & vented you'll get the effect you want.

ShowersPass, Burley, #1, back vents, pit vents is what does it.
The above also have two way zippers.
The PI Instinct is pretty good, pit vents & small back vent, open
cuffs.
One way zipper.

Scott

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:00:07 +0000, chris c wrote:

> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible?
> I just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore
> tex is not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the
> warmthness of it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a
> bad rain. I don't want to be soaked inside though because obviously we
> are cycling. Does anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I
> don't mind spending around $150 if the product is made well. I have
> always liked P Izumi's clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain
> jacket? thanks all

No waterproof/breathable fabric is breathable enough for athletic cycling.
If you're riding briskly, there will always be condensation inside. So
it's a compromise between dampness from the inside, and being merely damp
or completely soaked from the outside. In light rain, mist, fog, etc., a
normal windbreaker can be drier because it breathes better. But in a real
downpour you need a truly waterproof fabric to prevent being soaked from
the outside. This can make you cold, perhaps dangerously so.

When you need absolute waterproofness, get a jacket that ventilates well
-- with double zippers, pit zips, back vents, sleeves that open or push
up, etc. Waterproof/breathable fabric cannot do the job by itself.
However, the best designed rain jackets are usually made from
waterproof/breathable fabric anyway. Another consideration is
packability. Will the rolled-up jacket fit in your seatbag or jersey
pocket?

Showers Pass jackets are well regarded. Some of my friends have them and
they're very nice. The Patagonia one I have is almost as good, but
was much cheaper on sale. Burley probably makes the best hardcore rain
gear, but it doesn't pack as well. The clear plastic jackets racers
wear are fine if they have enough vents. Some do, some don't. But you
can get them for $15, or less.

Matt O.

 

[chris c]

I forgot to mention , I will be doing mostly 20 mile rides (to work ) and
that is one way. I will try to ride as cold as possible. I did 40's last
year, but we moved now.

"chris c" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Hz%[email protected]...
> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness
of
> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I
don't
> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all
>
>

 

[Fritz M]

chris c wrote:
> . I did 40's last year, but we moved now.

Much below freezing and you don't have to worry about wet so much

In fact, I prefer 15 degrees F over riding in 30-40 degrees F when
there's precipitation because it's so much drier.

RFM

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

chris c wrote:
> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness of
> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I don't
> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all

This is claimed to allow dry cycling in any weather:
<http://www.leitra.dk/>.

--
Tom Sherman

 

[dgk]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:05:28 -0600, "Pat in TX" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"chris c" <>I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this
>possible? I
>> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
>> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness
>> of
>> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I
>> don't
>> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
>> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
>> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
>> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all
>
>I have the last year's Pearl Izumi waterproof jacket and took it on a tour
>to Ireland. Out of 11 days riding, we got rained on 3 days (hard rain, too).
>As I had been told that I would get wet on the inside from sweating, I
>unzipped the pit zips quite a bit. The jacket was great! It's not Gore-Tex,
>but it worked like it is supposed to and the rain did not come in through
>the open pit zips, either. Another thing that was good about it is that it
>was a terrific windbreaker. The only drawback I have for their jacket is the
>lack of pockets. What is it about Pearl Izumi and pockets anyway? I have
>their Zephrr jacket and it doesn't have pockets, either. I am talking about
>their 2005 jacket. I understand they have changed it slightly for 2006, so I
>don't have any feedback on that one. I used a shower cap over my h*lm*t and
>that worked great, too.
>
>Pat in TX
>>
>>
>

I have a Cannondale windbreaker and I love it but there are no pockets
where you would put your hands. There is one in the back and one sort
of over the heart - both zippered. It is getting pretty dirty and
nothing seems to get it clean.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> chris c wrote:
>> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
>> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
>> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness of
>> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I don't
>> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
>> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
>> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
>> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all
>
> This is claimed to allow dry cycling in any weather:
> <http://www.leitra.dk/>.

My cycling rain poncho (+ knee-high gaiters + helmet cover + fenders
w/ mudflaps + toeclip covers made from strips of inner tube) is easier
to push through the basement door. It's cheaper, too. And it doesn't
necessitate my bike having too many wheels.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[[email protected]]

Yeah, I have a Patagonia Specter. Awesome. I just got a postcard from
them; they will be having a sale next week. Go to:
patagonia.com/store/specials/?dealp Maybe they will have a rain jacket
on sale.

Fritz M wrote:
> chris c wrote:
> > . I did 40's last year, but we moved now.
>
> Much below freezing and you don't have to worry about wet so much
>
> In fact, I prefer 15 degrees F over riding in 30-40 degrees F when
> there's precipitation because it's so much drier.
>
> RFM

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > This is claimed to allow dry cycling in any weather:
> > <http://www.leitra.dk/>.
>
> My cycling rain poncho (+ knee-high gaiters + helmet cover + fenders
> w/ mudflaps + toeclip covers made from strips of inner tube) is easier
> to push through the basement door. It's cheaper, too. And it doesn't
> necessitate my bike having too many wheels.

Point of order: if it has three (3) wheels, it is a tricycle (trike)
and not a bicycle (bike).

The Leitra provides the additional advantages of much lower wind-chill
and balance on icy surfaces (which are less important to people such as
Tom Keats who live in a moderate climate that in general lacks harsh
winter conditions).

--
Tom Sherman

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> writes:

> Point of order: if it has three (3) wheels, it is a tricycle (trike)
> and not a bicycle (bike).

Okay, it's a trike. Although it looks more like a mini-sub.
How the heck is a rider supposed to see around in that thing?
I'd die of frustration, not being able to stand on the pedals
to get occasional extended sight lines.

Whatever it is, it's too fat, unless one has a hangar (boathouse?)
to store it in. And then there's the matter of where and how to
park it at destinations. I suppose it could be fun, perplexing
the parking meter cops with it.

> The Leitra provides the additional advantages of much lower wind-chill
> and balance on icy surfaces (which are less important to people such as
> Tom Keats who live in a moderate climate that in general lacks harsh
> winter conditions).

Well, I am quite intimately acquainted with rain, and have had
plenty of opportunity to learn how to effectively deal with it.


cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

 

[[email protected]]

Denis K Padtek writes:

> You are possibly right in your conclusion about Gore-Tex, however,
> before you completely dismiss materials of this nature you need to
> consider one additional thing. Like a lot of people I think the
> marketing claims for Gore-Tex fabrics are way overblown. However,
> it is still a reasonable fabric for keeping you alive in cold wet
> conditions where it would otherwise be impossible for you to get
> inside out of the elements. You may not be comfortable but you can
> stay alive.

All the breathe-ability and vents that gushes about in bicycle
clothing is a lot of hot air from my experience. I used Gore-Tex once
and found that the laminate got wet on the outside from rain and
became air impervious cloth while the inside got wet from condensation
and was likewise impervious to both moist and dry air. Having toured
the Alps for many years starting in 1959, I soon learned that it can
snow any day of the year, and it often does.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos.html

For all around utility, a water proof parka (that means with hood) that
can be cinched down to cover the mouth and leave nose and eyes exposed
is a must. That parka should dry as soon as the rain or snow stops
and that rules out Gore-Tex. My Gore-Tex parka was often still wet
the next morning because its outer and inner cloth was wet the night
before. Only the inner laminate is water resistant.

In rain, while climbing on a warm day, the zipper can be left open
most of the way, especially if there is a wind from behind, that often
occurs from warm air rising in summer. To me Gore-Tex is an expensive
myth, unsuitable for active athletic activities.

Get a medium weight water proof parka from a mountaineering store.
Bicycle shops do not sell these. The heavier material will not flap
in the wind on cold descents, flapping that essentially removes the
parka because forced convection of flapping negates any dead air
insulation that clothing presents when still. I often hear bicyclists
flapping downhill in cold weather and I wonder whether they gave the
clothing any independent thought other than listening to the promotion
for the jacket.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:50:01 +0000, jobst.brandt wrote:

> Denis K Padtek writes:
>
>> You are possibly right in your conclusion about Gore-Tex, however,
>> before you completely dismiss materials of this nature you need to
>> consider one additional thing. Like a lot of people I think the
>> marketing claims for Gore-Tex fabrics are way overblown. However, it
>> is still a reasonable fabric for keeping you alive in cold wet
>> conditions where it would otherwise be impossible for you to get inside
>> out of the elements. You may not be comfortable but you can stay
>> alive.
>
> All the breathe-ability and vents that gushes about in bicycle clothing
> is a lot of hot air from my experience. I used Gore-Tex once and found
> that the laminate got wet on the outside from rain and became air
> impervious cloth while the inside got wet from condensation and was
> likewise impervious to both moist and dry air. Having toured the Alps
> for many years starting in 1959, I soon learned that it can snow any day
> of the year, and it often does.
>
> http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos.html
>
> For all around utility, a water proof parka (that means with hood) that
> can be cinched down to cover the mouth and leave nose and eyes exposed
> is a must. That parka should dry as soon as the rain or snow stops and
> that rules out Gore-Tex. My Gore-Tex parka was often still wet the next
> morning because its outer and inner cloth was wet the night before.
> Only the inner laminate is water resistant.
>
> In rain, while climbing on a warm day, the zipper can be left open most
> of the way, especially if there is a wind from behind, that often occurs
> from warm air rising in summer. To me Gore-Tex is an expensive myth,
> unsuitable for active athletic activities.

You must have had an older garment or one with lousy water repellency.
The Goretex-type jacket I use for riding sheds water like the proverbial
duck's back. It also passes enough moisture to form frost on the back
while riding hard on clear, cold days.

It's not perfect, but it's definitely more comfortable than completely
non-permeable rainwear.

If this were not true, generations of mountaineers would not have adopted
waterproof breathable fabrics. Same goes for the military, who have
tested this stuff extensively.

However I do agree that waterproof-breathables are oversold.
Unfortunately the best designed garments must also feature the fanciest
fabrics, to justify their high prices.

> Get a medium weight water proof parka from a mountaineering store.
> Bicycle shops do not sell these. The heavier material will not flap in
> the wind on cold descents, flapping that essentially removes the parka
> because forced convection of flapping negates any dead air insulation
> that clothing presents when still. I often hear bicyclists flapping
> downhill in cold weather and I wonder whether they gave the clothing any
> independent thought other than listening to the promotion for the
> jacket.

This I agree with, and it's why I prefer my waterproof breathable jacket
on cold days. It's both slimmer cut and of stiffer fabric.

I wish I could find a really slim fitting regular windbreaker.

Matt O.

 

[Pat in TX]

>
> All the breathe-ability and vents that gushes about in bicycle
> clothing is a lot of hot air from my experience. I used Gore-Tex once
> and found that the laminate got wet on the outside from rain and
> became air impervious cloth while the inside got wet from condensation
> and was likewise impervious to both moist and dry air.
<snip>
> Jobst Brandt

This conversation was also done last year right before my trip to Ireland in
September. I was worried about buying a jacket because of your posts and
your negative views on fabrics. However, I bought the Pearl Izumi Instinct
jacket and went on my trip. One one day, I started out from Corofin toward
Lahinch in a "soft day" atmosphere. By the time I got to Lahinch, it was
pouring down rain and the wind on the coast was so loud that I could barely
hear! I couldn't see the Cliffs of Moher that day, so I turned south to
Ennis. This entire day was spent in a pouring rain with drops dripping off
of my nose and the ends of my eyebrows. How did the jacket perform?
Splendidly! I rode with the pit zips almost entirely unzipped and did not
get wet on the inside from condensation nor did the open pit zips let rain
come in on the sides. It kept me warm and dry and the rain stayed on the
outside of the jacket beaded up in little droplets.

Two days later, I was riding from Limerick Junction to see the Rock of
Cashel. The day consisted of 3 hours riding in the pouring rain. I was dry
and not wet from condensation at the end of the day unless you count my
feet! I had covered them with Pearl Izumi's waterproof shoe covers and my
feet were wet from my sweating. But at least they were warm. I used a
shower cap on my h*&lmet and it kept my head warm.

Moral of the story: Don't worry about all of the naysayers about water proof
jackets! Just go ahead and buy one and go riding! This jacket was not
Gore-Tex, but Pearl Izumi's version of water proof, and it worked exactly as
it was supposed to. If it is not as breathable as Gore-Tex, then Gore-Tex
must be pretty good these days. I just wish I had Gore-Tex pants because my
legs got wet and the pants were plastered to my skin. I have since gone out
and purchased some Gore-Tex pants by GoLite.

Pat in TX

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:00:07 +0000, chris c wrote:

> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
> not worth it. You will get wet inside.

I have had great luck with a Gore-Tex jacket. Certainly more breathable
than anything else that really will keep the rain off, and it does keep
the rain off.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

 

[Peter Cole]

chris c wrote:
> I am looking for something waterproof and BREATHABLE! Is this possible? I
> just went through the old postings on google and many said the gore tex is
> not worth it. You will get wet inside. I don't care about the warmthness of
> it. I can layer. I want something for getting caught in a bad rain. I don't
> want to be soaked inside though because obviously we are cycling. Does
> anyone make a good rain jacket that is breathable? I don't mind spending
> around $150 if the product is made well. I have always liked P Izumi's
> clothing. Do they make a good breathable rain jacket? thanks all

There are basically 3 types of waterproof materials: membrane (Goretex),
DWR (durable water repellent) treated fabric, and coated material. The
first 2 types "breathe", that is they pass water vapor. The membrane
material is always bonded to conventional fabric, which is usually DWR
treated.

The reality of waterproof materials is the more waterproof, the less
breathable. Fabric breathability is one way to get rid of vapor, the
other is venting. Fabric breathability can't keep up with the vapor
produced by heavy exercise, and breathability declines with wetting of
inner or outer surfaces, dirt, ice, sweat, etc.

I think that for long-duration and light activity (hiking, sailing,
relaxed cycling) membrane stuff is the way to go. At the other extreme,
short-duration and high activity, you might as well wear a $10 plastic
jacket. DWR gives reasonable performance for the price, and you can
treat plain microfiber jackets with DWR compounds yourself. One of the
problems with DWR and cycling (or any other high activity) garment is
that the necessary frequent launderings remove and/or degrade the DWR
coatings, sometimes quite rapidly. Since membrane materials also rely on
a DWR surface treatment this is also an issue with them.

I stopped wearing microfiber cycling jackets a few years ago. I just
decided they don't breathe well enough for the kind of riding I do. DWR
lowers the breathability further, and since I find I have to wash
jackets every time I ride, the DWR is long gone when I need it. For
long tours, I re-treat a rain jacket & take it along. For short rainy
rides, I use a membrane vest & let my arms get wet -- that's my compromise.