who is the biggest war criminal?

[Colorado Ryder]

Rumsfeld is answerable to his boss - yeah that's democracy alright.
When was the last time you told your boss that he was wrong ?

As I say, democracy (one caveat - American Style).

So we are agreed that Bush(who is actually elected by the people)is actually in charge. Brilliant.

 

[limerickman]

If you're uneducated about the US system perhaps you should think before you post. I know you won't because it isn't advantageous to your argument.

I know that cronies, unelected by the people, are appointed by the President to positions of policymaking and power and access to taxpayers money.

If you can show me where Perle, Wolfowitz and Freeh were elected by the people, I will agree with you.

 

[limerickman]

So we are agreed that Bush(who is actually elected by the people)is actually in charge. Brilliant.

.....in charge of appointing his unelected cronies. Yep.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

.....in charge of appointing his unelected cronies. Yep.

The ones that get approved by the US Senate. If you're going to argue then at least have the balls to disclose how the process actually works. It is facetious for you to conveniently leave out details. Wonder why that is?

 

[limerickman]

The ones that get approved by the US Senate. If you're going to argue then at least have the balls to disclose how the process actually works. It is facetious for you to conveniently leave out details. Wonder why that is?

...but not elected by the people.

That is the kernel of this discussion.
You made an accusation about the Iranians and the lack of "democracy".

You contended that unelected Ayotollahs control policy in Iran.

I contend unelected cronies control policy in the USA.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

I know that cronies, unelected by the people, are appointed by the President to positions of policymaking and power and access to taxpayers money.

If you can show me where Perle, Wolfowitz and Freeh were elected by the people, I will agree with you.

You know all that? Who has to approve those appointments? Who approves the budget? Who has to answer to Congressional oversight committees? C'mon now lets not leave out any details.

When Bush was re-elected in 04, the people approved of Bush and those in his cabinet. Otherwise Kerry would have been president.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

...but not elected by the people.

That is the kernel of this discussion.
You made an accusation about the Iranians and the lack of "democracy".

You contended that unelected Ayotollahs control policy in Iran.

I contend unelected cronies control policy in the USA.

Not elected by the people! Just like the PM of Ireland!

No. The kernel of this discussion is how you seem to think that Europe is democratic and the US is not. You can think otherwise if you wish. I'll stick with the US Constitution. Been pretty good for over 200 years. Of course you might as well throw away the Irish Constitution. I hear that new EU constitution does a bang up job. Hear the French and the Dutch went crazy for it.

 

[limerickman]

You know all that? .

Yes, I do.

You know all that? Who has to approve those appointments? Who approves the budget?

Not the electorate.

When Bush was re-elected in 04, the people approved of Bush and those in his cabinet. Otherwise Kerry would have been president.

and Kerry would appointed cronies too.

The US system isn't democratic.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Not the electorate.

Then who does? Don't leave out any details.

 

[limerickman]

Not elected by the people! Just like the PM of Ireland!

The Irish Prime Minister was elected to the Dail.
He was elected in the North Dublin constituency - BY THE PEOPLE.

Who voted for Perle ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rumsfeld ? Which State ?
Who voted for Wolfowitz ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rice ? Which State ?

No. The kernel of this discussion is how you seem to think that Europe is democratic and the US is not. You can think otherwise if you wish. I'll stick with the US Constitution. Been pretty good for over 200 years. Of course you might as well throw away the Irish Constitution. I hear that new EU constitution does a bang up job. Hear the French and the Dutch went crazy for it.

Yep, European democracies are voted for by the people.
Unlike your country.

 

[limerickman]

Then who does? Don't leave out any details.

Who voted for Perle ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rumsfeld ? Which State ?
Who voted for Wolfowitz ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rice ? Which State ?

 

[Colorado Ryder]

The Irish Prime Minister was elected to the Dail.
He was elected in the North Dublin constituency - BY THE PEOPLE.

Who voted for Perle ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rumsfeld ? Which State ?
Who voted for Wolfowitz ? Which State ?
Who voted for Rice ? Which State ?



Yep, European democracies are voted for by the people.
Unlike your country.

I didn't realize that I didn't vote for Senators or Representatives or the President. When the people of the US vote for president they are voting for his judgement. You see he is in charge of the executive branch. The government is so large that he can't run all of of it. He therefore nominates people to oversee areas of the government. The president selects people he views he can trust and best able to handle the job. Which is allowed by the US Constitution, maybe you've heard of it. Its the document that starts with "We the people". Those people are approved or not by the US Senate. These people then have to answer to congressional oversight committees. The cabinet positions are advisory positions to the president. Do they spend taxpayers money? No. The budget which is submitted by the president and approved by the US Congress details what the money can be spent on.
Of course this could not be democratic. But that would make the US Constitution undemocratic.

Who elected the PM to that position? Was it the people or the Dail?

 

[darkboong]

Keep believing in that Iranian democracy. Somebody has to and it might as well be you.

You don't get to choose the meaning of the word Democracy CR. Iran is just as much as a Democracy as the UK or even the US.

My suspicion is that your opinion is based entirely on the output of the US mass-media. The US mass-media has never forgiven the Iranians for overthrowing the US-backed Shah. In fact most of the coverage of Iran that I've seen in the US mass-media has consisted of Opinion pieces framed to present Neo-con/Militant Zionist ravings as fact.

You still haven't revealed your sources for your knowledge about Iranian politics yet.

If you are looking for countries to attack on the basis of being un-democratic and oppressive, I suggest that you look no further than Saudi and Kuwait...

When did the people vote for Khamenei? Yep sounds fair to me too.

Khamenei was elected. Do you mean Khomeini ? Revolutionaries are not elected... The Shah of Iran was not elected either, he was murdering Iranian citizens with the full support of the US. The Shah was chicken feed compared to the US-backed war fought by Saddam. The US were so keen on wiping out an independant Iran that they gave Saddam VX gas and even helped him plan attacks on civillians with it.

A quick google found this :
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/islamic_revolution/islamic_revolution.php

Before you whinge about bias, please take note of their home page. They do state their agenda up front.

It would be nice if the US quit attacking Iran verbally, financially and militarily for the first time in 25 years. It is time that the US got over the ousting of their pet tyrant in Iran. Iran has been through a hell of a time, the people deserve some hope that they and their children can live without fear of attack by the US and it's allies.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

It would be nice if the US quit attacking Iran verbally, financially and militarily for the first time in 25 years. It is time that the US got over the ousting of their pet tyrant in Iran. Iran has been through a hell of a time, the people deserve some hope that they and their children can live without fear of attack by the US and it's allies.

Their people can live without fear when the children of Israel can live without fear of a Hamas attacks. Maybe Iran should first quit financing Hamas. They can then deserve to live with hope.

 

[limerickman]

I didn't realize that I didn't vote for Senators or Representatives or the President. When the people of the US vote for president they are voting for his judgement.

They're voting for the candidates policies.

The government is so large that he can't run all of of it. He therefore nominates people to oversee areas of the government.

He nominates cronies - who were not elected by "we the people".

The president selects people he views he can trust and best able to handle the job.

it's a matter of opinion if any of the unelected incumbents can be trusted or are capable of doing the job, as you say

Its the document that starts with "We the people". Those people are approved or not by the US Senate.

Approved/disapproved - it makes no difference.
They were never elected by "we the people".

These people then have to answer to congressional oversight committees. The cabinet positions are advisory positions to the president. Do they spend taxpayers money? No.

So the Pentagon spends no money ?
How does it operate if it doesn't spend money ?

Rumsfeld's office control the Pentagon - right ?
The Pentagon is funded by the taxpayer - right ?
QED : Rumsfeld, an unelected crony appointed to a position by his good friend Bush, has access to and control of, taxpayers money allocated to the Pentagon.

Who elected the PM to that position? Was it the people or the Dail?

The people.

(Who elected Rumsfeld ?????????????????)

 

[Colorado Ryder]

They're voting for the candidates policies.
He nominates cronies - who were not elected by "we the people".
it's a matter of opinion if any of the unelected incumbents can be trusted or are capable of doing the job, as you say
Approved/disapproved - it makes no difference.
They were never elected by "we the people".
So the Pentagon spends no money ?
How does it operate if it doesn't spend money ?
Rumsfeld's office control the Pentagon - right ?
The Pentagon is funded by the taxpayer - right ?
QED : Rumsfeld, an unelected crony appointed to a position by his good friend Bush, has access to and control of, taxpayers money allocated to the Pentagon.

You really don't get it. We the people vote for president based on who they think will do the best job. If they vote for his policies then they are also voting for his judgement. Which includes his judgement on cabinet positions.
Another thing you don't or won't mention is that cabinet positions are basically advisory. Which means that the president(the guy elected directly by the people)makes the final decision.

You also know nothing of how government budgets work. The money can only be spent on what it was budgeted for. Therefore, Rumsfeld must spend the money on what the president's budget calls for. To spend it on anything must be submitted to Congress for approval. Wonder why you didn't mention that?

So you're saying you got to vote for the guy from Dublin that was made the PM? How is that possible when you live in Limerick? Why don't you just admit the PM is voted for by the Dail. The people of Ireland have no direct election for the PM position. The party with the most seats gets to pick a PM. The people have no drect say in the PM selection. Democracy - European style.

 

[limerickman]

You really don't get it. We the people vote for president based on who they think will do the best job. If they vote for his policies then they are also voting for his judgement. Which includes his judgement on cabinet positions.
Another thing you don't or won't mention is that cabinet positions are basically advisory. Which means that the president(the guy elected directly by the people)makes the final decision.

I didn't dispute that you vote for a President.

I did dispute the fact that unelected people are given positions in power and of policymaking and have access to taxpayers money.

You also know nothing of how government budgets work. The money can only be spent on what it was budgeted for. Therefore, Rumsfeld must spend the money on what the president's budget calls for. To spend it on anything must be submitted to Congress for approval. Wonder why you didn't mention that?

Goverment budgets : I know about them.

Goverment is funded by the taxpayer.
Goverment departments are allocated a budget.
The head of the goverment department (ie an unelected crony) is responsible for expenditure in that department.

So you're saying you got to vote for the guy from Dublin that was made the PM? How is that possible when you live in Limerick?

Did I say I voted in the North Dublin Constituency during the last general election ?
No.

I said that the man who is now Prime Minister was elected by the electorate
in the constituency of North Dublin in the last general election.

Why don't you just admit the PM is voted for by the Dail. The people of Ireland have no direct election for the PM position. The party with the most seats gets to pick a PM. The people have no drect say in the PM selection. Democracy - European style.

The person who is prime minister is elected to the Dail - BY THE PEOPLE.
If he's not elected BY THE PEOPLE, he can't be Prime Minister.

How many votes did Rumsfeld get in your election ?
What state did he run for election in ?

 

[Colorado Ryder]

I didn't dispute that you vote for a President.

I did dispute the fact that unelected people are given positions in power and of policymaking and have access to taxpayers money.





Goverment budgets : I know about them.

Goverment is funded by the taxpayer.
Goverment departments are allocated a budget.
The head of the goverment department (ie an unelected crony) is responsible for expenditure in that department.



Did I say I voted in the North Dublin Constituency during the last general election ?
No.

I said that the man who is now Prime Minister was elected by the electorate
in the constituency of North Dublin in the last general election.



The person who is prime minister is elected to the Dail - BY THE PEOPLE.
If he's not elected BY THE PEOPLE, he can't be Prime Minister.

How many votes did Rumsfeld get in your election ?
What state did he run for election in ?

So in Ireland the PM is elected by the Dail. The people don't vote directly for the PM. That can't happen here. The constitution allows the people to vote directly for the president. In Ireland the PM will be from the party in control of the Dail. In the US the president can be from a different party than the one that controls Congress. Under the European system, your favorite US president, Clinton, would never have been president. That system completely eliminates the opposition from having any chance at positions of meaning.
Democracy - European style!

Government budgets are not just money allocated to the department. The money is specifically earmarked what it can be spent on. Thats how government budgets work in the US. So you see, Rumsfeld can't spend the money how he wants. He has to spend it according to how Congress approved the money to be spent. One of Rumsfeld's jobs is to make sure that is how the money is spent.
On last thing that apparently you can't comprehend. The cabinet does not make policy or laws. They can only advise the president. It is the president who decides policy based input from his cabinet.
How many votes did Rumsfeld get? Apparently you can't comprehend this either. He got the same votes that Bush got. A vote for Bush was a vote for his ENTIRE administration.

 

[darkboong]

Their people can live without fear when the children of Israel can live without fear of a Hamas attacks.

They do pretty much Ryder, well, when compared to the Palestinian children shot in the head and chest by snipers while they sit at their desks. Certainly better than the 4000+ dead Palestinians, let alone the homeless and dispossessed in refugee camps around the world..

Maybe Iran should first quit financing Hamas. They can then deserve to live with hope.

Maybe Israel should stop attacking Iran.

 

[limerickman]

So in Ireland the PM is elected by the Dail. The people don't vote directly for the PM.

Only people ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE can hold political office in the country.

Unlike your country - where cronies are appointed and NOT ELECTED BY WE THE PEOPLE.

. That system completely eliminates the opposition from having any chance at positions of meaning.

positions of meaning ? a.k.a. cronies.

Government budgets are not just money allocated to the department. The money is specifically earmarked what it can be spent on. Thats how government budgets work in the US. So you see, Rumsfeld can't spend the money how he wants. He has to spend it according to how Congress approved the money to be spent. One of Rumsfeld's jobs is to make sure that is how the money is spent.

The unelected crony is appointed by the President to manage and control goverment departments.
Goverment departments funded solely by the taxpayer.

And you claim that these cronies don't have access to taxpayers money ?

Or are these goverment departments funded privately ?
Or are the cronies not in control of those departments ?
Or..........????????????????????????

How many votes did Rumsfeld get? Apparently you can't comprehend this either. He got the same votes that Bush got. A vote for Bush was a vote for his ENTIRE administration.

How many votes did Rumsfeld get?

Rumsfeld got ZERO VOTES FROM "WE THE PEOPLE".

He got the same votes that Bush got.

He got the same number of votes as Bush?????????????????????? ?

I thought that Cheney was on the ballot ?
Where was Rumsfeld's name on the ballot ?
Which state did he run in ?????


I think Rumsfeld is an unaccountable, as an Iranian Ayotollah !