Who is the greatest rider of all-time

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Kenny, Nov 23, 2002.

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Who is the greatest rider of all-time

  1. Bernard Hinault

    10 vote(s)
    1.0%
  2. Fausto Coppi

    24 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. Francesco Moser

    28 vote(s)
    2.9%
  4. Eddy Merckx

    2 vote(s)
    0.2%
  5. Gino Bartali

    604 vote(s)
    63.1%
  6. Luison Bobet

    4 vote(s)
    0.4%
  7. Felice Gimondi

    1 vote(s)
    0.1%
  8. Rik Van Looy

    2 vote(s)
    0.2%
  9. Lance Armstrong

    2 vote(s)
    0.2%
  10. Miguel Indurain

    280 vote(s)
    29.3%
  1. Matt Chanoff

    Matt Chanoff New Member

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    Eddie, no contest. In cycling, it doesn't matter who can go faster, like in an hour record. It matters who crosses the line first, and Eddie did more than anyone ever will.

    But if you mean the greatest PERSON to race a bike, I'd vote for Gino Bartali. That right-wing pious Catholic who prayed on his knees every night and was beloved of the fascists - during World War II he used his training rides as cover to carry forged exit visas around Italy in order to save Jews.
     


  2. torreceuti

    torreceuti New Member

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    miguel indurain. and that´s not because i´m spanish!!
     
  3. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    That answer looks a little like this one:

    armstrong.
    If he wants to win, he wins.
    If he wants the opposition to suffer, he makes them suffer.
    He has total control of the peleton. :p

    Also, people talk about the bike that Eddie rode... I hate to burst their bubbles but, everyone else was riding that type of bike too!

    Lance also rides against others who have the same technology (some would say better... damn sponsors). Technology is a moot argument!

    I say Lance!
     
  4. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    Lance my arse. How many total victories does he have? What other major races does he ride/win in a year? Easy to be up for only three weeks. Not like the World Cup champion who rides many races from spring to fall, more then three weeks. Lance just has the TdF figured out. Have 2-3 great stages, good supporting teammates and RACE no other major races before TdF.....


    Memph
     
  5. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    Hey, Hey, Hey, sorry!... just giving my opinion! I'm sure that you realize that Lance would probably ride the other rides if he didn't have a lot of responsibilities to his sponsors... they need him to win that race every year, so he makes it his one and only priority. Think like Tiger Woods only attending certain events... don't you really know that he could win the others if he wanted to? Its a good point, and has been used many times, but if Lance really could throw caution to the wind, and not worry about his longevity (which is crucial to fulfill his responsibility to his sponsors) don't you really think he would do it, and win!!! Its a different world, and its hard to compare! Ask who the best B-Ball player ever was, and.... well... bad example... Jordan of course!
     
  6. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    P.S. Once you've figured the theory of relativity, isn't it hard to go back to addition and subtraction!!!
     
  7. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    That is an excuse for Lance not competing in other races. The rest of the riders have sponsors and they compete. Then again we are talking what ifs. I personally think he is too weak to compete in the other major races. Heck, he can't even win a ITT in the TdF. That would be a show of strength, wouldn't it???

    Jordan was the most exciting, but not the best. Did he ever score 100pts in a game? Have the highest average points per game for a season? Win the most championships (don't forget Celtics run in the 50's)? At least you are comparing Americans in this sport. Oh ya, Jordan's dad died because of his gambling...

    Memph
     
  8. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

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    I still belive Eddie Merckx is the greatest at this time. Armstrong is still in the running as long as he ride in competitionand may surpass Merckx some day. Has anyone read either of his books? It is amazing that he won anything. It seems obvious from his first book that he had a inate talent for cycling before all the hype and technology he has experienced since.
     
  9. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    Wilt Chamberlain was a 7footer playing among a bunch of 6footers dropping the ball in the basket... oh, yeah, he's got skills. Wait, I'm not getting into this. My real point was that everyone's got there own view... I knew the whole Jordan thing would draw that out... it was a joke. Its really not worth arguing over. I give you Merckx before I let you try to get away with the Stilt.
     
  10. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    You are correct, we shall have our own opinion. Jrdon took to long to develop and win championships. Most great athletes win championships in their first few years. Like Patrick Roy (goalie, Montreal Canadiens, rookie season), Joe Montana (QB, SF 49ERS, 2nd season), etc... Jordan took years before he won. Then his whole retirement sham was a jokeand made him look stupid.

    I consider Lemond as good if not better then Armstrong...

    Memph
     
  11. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    There's an argument for Lemond, yes! Though I won't make it! But now you're really getting delusional with your arguments. Yeah, I will listen to the argument(bad though it is) that the great one's win championships!... but now you're giving it urgency!!! Crazy talk!! Try to tell me that Barry Bonds isn't at the top of the list because he didn't win a championship in the first couple of years?!!... Ernie Banks sucked! Walter Payton sucked!! You might as well say Roberto Clemente sucked because he died before he got the chance to show us what he really could do! I'll admit it was talk that helped your argument, though, which is probably why you used it!!... doesn't fit. Jordan did take a team that was a perrenial loser, with stars like Dave Corzine and... well, stars like Dave Corzine says it all!!... turned it into a perrenial winner... and eventually... perrenial champs! What did Scotty Pippen do without Jordan? Paxon? Cliff Livingston? BJ Armstrong?
    Rwaaaa, who did he have?... Damphousse, Keane, Desjardins, LeClair, Carbonnoeau, Odelein, Petrov, Brunet, DiPietro,... terrible team that Roy brought to the top wasn't it(?)!!! Do I need to describe Montana's team?... Yeah, maybe those guys are some of the best guys to play their games, but don't use a stupid argument to support it!
     
  12. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    It is great to have a sports debate with someone who has a few bullets in their gun. You shocked me with your knowledge of hockey. So lets start their.

    Roy was so great that he won with two teams atthe begnning and end of his career. This proves he had lasting talent, not flash in the pan. Even Canada's hockey spokesmen said the Avs would not have won the 1st Cup if it was not for Roy. So then gave the Conn Smyth to Sakic?

    Montana, need we say more. MR. Perfect in the Super Bowl. Three MVP's (should have been 4, but gave it to Rice). Never threw an INT, + 62% completion, never lost, and was awesome under pressure. Sure he doesn't have the stats of some great QBs, like Marino. But for all of Marino's talent and numbers, could he win a Super Bowl? No, he had one appearance and lost. Elway had four appearances and only two victories. So that is why Montana shall be considered by most to be on top of the list of grea QBs. Remember, Montana did not have Rice for his first two Super Bowl victories.

    Bonds (Bro's fave athlete), is a great Baseball player (sorry do not consider high priced guys who get to sit on a bench for an hour during a game and in some games may never have to field a ball athletes). If he was great, he would have a World Series to his name. What good is setting records if you can not help your team and win it all. Sure he has more HR in a season then Big Mac. But who has more World Series titles?

    Athletes can be good, others can be great. But you are not at the top with-out proving you could pull your team to the top and win Championships.

    Now lets not forget big joke Jordan. Sure he has titles and stats. He also had some good players arould him. Basketball is a game where a single player can take over, unlike football. He did this at times, as other greats have in sports (hockey). He won all of his in a short period, not stretched out. Which kinda proves it was the teams make up.

    This is getting long.....

    Memph
     
  13. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    I'm not going to add that quote to this, so I hope this follows yours. The point is that in your argument (and I guess mine too, now) we are talking about team sports, and you have to be able to compare the teams... across sports lines... across time... and factor in luck... for guys to win championships... to be able to consider them the best in there sport! I guess this gets us back to the original point... cyclings best! You say to be considered, your likely candidate for best athlete would need to win early... look at Armstrongs early triathlon years (before he found cycling), his mountain biking years. You say he needs to stretch it out over time... OK, you've got me there, Lance did take some time off to fight cancer (in his prime years), and he shouldn't have done that if he wanted to make your list! Too bad he had to come back and give you a strong rebuttal! Need I say anything to you about raising his team to a new level? You can't come back and say anything about the strength of his team... you just argued against that, nah nah! (that's the strongest argument against him! Heras's the man!) How was Merckx the Man's team?

    Oh, and about Canada's Hockey Spokesman... I think he meant if Roy was not standing in front of the net (no goalie at all)! Forsberg, Sakic, Ozolinsh, Deadmarsh, Young, LaCroix, Ricci, Lemieux, Keane(again), Foote!! Terrible team! Though I agree with the distinguished anonymous Canadien Spokesman(?) that if nobody was in goal, they probably would not have one!!
     
  14. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    Whoops! Last word - won! Let's stop this! I'm sure some are getting ticked off! Opinions, I hate having them!
     
  15. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    Oh, and I never said that the great one's couldn't win championships early (Montana), I just say that it shouldn't be a consideration in considering them the bes of all! Luck and Randomness! OK, I don't want to be the idiot who always tries to get the last word, so hit me hard, and that's it, I swear!!
     
  16. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    No, need to hit you back. You have many great points and opinions are differcult to debate. We shall each find facts to suppot our views.

    A quick note, a # of years ago, I almost got into a fight with Deadmarsh. Over the use of a b-ball court in our home town. Amazing how fast someone backs down when you threaten to break their knees. What did I have to lose compared to him?

    Memph
     
  17. jasonc47

    jasonc47 New Member

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    Thanks for being the good man to end that!

    That's funny about Deadmarsh... Its got to take a strong will from those guys to hold back with all of the crap they must take!
    Chelios gave me the look of death at one of the Wrigley Field souvenir stores when I... being a little over-served at one of this year's play-off games against Atlanta... thought we were pals... and smacked him on the back... a little harder than I probably should have! I'm so happy he had his kids with him... I think my only saving grace! Now, about that best ever... :)
     
  18. bikeguyx4

    bikeguyx4 New Member

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    Merckx was the best, but could he have won five Tours in a row after having cancer and a 40% chance to live?
     
  19. Memphmann

    Memphmann New Member

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    Not fair, cancer treatment was different in those days. More advanced these days....

    Memph
     
  20. jmgradon

    jmgradon New Member

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    I hate to take exception to the Merckx landslide but I think the question needs to be put in perspective. Merckx certainly dominated his contemporaries more than any other racer and he competed in many more events than Lance Armstrong. On the other hand, as in other aerobic sports, training techniques and the general level of athleticism has improved steadily over the years. So I am inclined to vote for Armstrong.
     
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