who made this frame????

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by ccrider, Apr 1, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello,
    I picked up this frame last year and I plan on building it up with old-school Campy NR/SR. I'm just wondering if any of you out there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I bought it from didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it from didn't know much either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them up at the link below:

    http://ccrider.nebraska.edu/mybikes/red63cm/red63cm.html

    I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built 'road/light touring' bike. The stars on the inside of the fork would lead one to immediately guess Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's more of a custom job. Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of lugsets, right?

    Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the maker/origin of this frameset I'd really appreciate it! thanks!

    Conrad
     
    Tags:


  2. I think it is about impossible to name it. There are brazed-on attachments for fenders and/or a
    rack. So, it appears to be a touring, more than a racing, frame. What intrigues me is the absense of
    the manufacturer's label and the presence of the Campagnolo logo in the steering area: I have never
    seen such a thing. I suspect the frame has been repainted and the decals that appear are not the
    original ones.

    As as a side remark. Over here one can find (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for
    little money: nobody wants them, in practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of
    that area for

    Well, should I plunge into business?

    Sergio Pisa
     
  3. Szymszy

    Szymszy Guest

    > As as a side remark. Over here one can find

    where?

    > (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
    > practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

    where???

    Simon

    mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl
     
  4. Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in way back when. I don't recall
    the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe
    they were built by more than one place during the time in which they were imported.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  5. "ccrider" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Hello, I picked up this frame last year and I plan on building it up with old-school Campy NR/SR.
    > I'm just wondering if any of you out there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I bought it
    > from didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it from didn't know much
    > either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them up at the link below:
    >
    > http://ccrider.nebraska.edu/mybikes/red63cm/red63cm.html
    >
    > I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built 'road/light touring' bike. The stars
    > on the inside of the fork would lead one to immediately guess Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's
    > more of a custom job. Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of
    > lugsets, right?
    >
    > Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the maker/origin of this frameset I'd
    > really appreciate it! thanks!
    >
    > Conrad

    I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is the same, yours has been
    repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986 Performance catalog and was called the "Performance Blue
    Ridge". It sold for $350. The catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in
    Italy to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder was given.
     
  6. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    I'm with Sergio that this bike is "of a type" and impossible to definitively
    ID.Campagnolo showed steerers in the catalog until about 1975. They were not all that unusual
    in the era.

    If you think you can buy low and sell high there's a bright future for you in the industry. In
    reality though, one often gets waves of compliments on trade-in and vintage machines but few serious
    offers. I recently overpaid for a Super Record reduced 1981 bike with hardly any miles. After a year
    I sold the kit for half what I paid and got a few dollars for the frameset leaving a small net loss.
    The cost of money over a year is a factor too. "Beautiful" and "Saleable" are not necessarily the
    same thing. . .

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971 "Sergio SERVADIO"
    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > I think it is about impossible to name it. There are brazed-on attachments for fenders and/or a
    > rack. So, it appears to be a touring, more than a racing, frame. What intrigues me is the absense
    > of the manufacturer's label and the presence of the Campagnolo logo in the steering area: I have
    > never seen such a thing. I suspect the frame has been repainted and the decals that appear are not
    > the original ones.
    >
    > As as a side remark. Over here one can find (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames
    > for little money: nobody wants them, in practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue
    > Colnago of that area for

    >
    > Well, should I plunge into business?
    >
    > Sergio Pisa
     
  7. Ajames54™

    Ajames54™ Guest

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:59:43 +0200, "szymszy" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >> As as a side remark. Over here one can find
    >
    >where?
    >
    >> (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
    >> practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

    >
    >where???
    >
    >Simon
    >
    >mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl
    >

    FOUR Xs'?

    is that more than 1000 euros?

    sounds a bit high ..
     
  8. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "Waldo Hinshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "ccrider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hello, I picked up this frame last year and I plan on building it up with old-school Campy
    > > NR/SR. I'm just wondering if any of you out there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I
    > > bought it from didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it from didn't
    > > know much either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them up at the link below:
    > >
    > > http://ccrider.nebraska.edu/mybikes/red63cm/red63cm.html
    > >
    > > I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built
    'road/light
    > > touring' bike. The stars on the inside of the fork would lead one to immediately guess
    > > Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's more of a custom
    job.
    > > Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of lugsets, right?
    > >
    > > Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the
    maker/origin
    > > of this frameset I'd really appreciate it! thanks!
    > >
    > > Conrad
    >
    > I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is
    the
    > same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986
    Performance
    > catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350.
    The
    > catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in
    Italy
    > to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder
    was
    > given.

    I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put it vintage-wise in the very
    late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out --
    but by the late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable routing under the
    BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get
    one for $350 anymore. I should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
    63cm. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  9. Harris

    Harris Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in way back when. I don't
    > recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but otherwise it looks like what I remember. I
    > believe they were built by more than one place during the time in which they were imported.

    I think you're right, Mike. I have an '84 PAB frame and it is almost identical to this. PAB had
    three models at the time: Road Racer, Touring, and Light Touring.

    I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
    bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

    I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
    stays and a more laid back geometry.

    Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
    headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
    had chromed forks.

    Art Harris
     
  10. "Harris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:pCGia.34126$A%[email protected]...
    > Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in
    way
    > > back when. I don't recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement,
    but
    > > otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe they were built by
    more
    > > than one place during the time in which they were imported.
    >
    > I think you're right, Mike. I have an '84 PAB frame and it is almost identical to this. PAB had
    > three models at the time: Road Racer, Touring, and Light Touring.
    >
    > I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
    > bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.
    >
    > I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
    > stays and a more laid back geometry.
    >
    > Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
    > headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
    > had chromed forks.
    >
    > Art Harris

    Correct. The frame Performance sold had chrome seat stays, chain stays, and forks. But every other
    detail looks identical (except for the decals, of course). BTW, mine is a 65 cm frame and has the
    "BMZ" on the BB. They must have come from the same builder. Performance sold two versions with
    slightly different geometry, one for racing and the other for sport touring.

    I just noticed that the Performance catalog from 1986 also offered four other framsets all of which
    look similar. But the one with the same paint job, lugs, etc. as that of the OP (as far as I can
    tell from the catalog picture) is a De Rosa Professional frameset. It looks like it has "De Rosa"
    (with the "O" encircling a heart) embossed on the flat part of the top of the seat stays.
     
  11. On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, ajames54=99 wrote:
    > On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 13:59:43 +0200, "szymszy" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >> As as a side remark. Over here one can find
    > >where?
    > >> (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or frames for little money: nobody wants them, in
    > >> practise. An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for

    > >where??? Simon mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl
    > FOUR Xs'? is that more than 1000 euros? sounds a bit high ..

    1000 euros would be way too much.=20

    Any large bike shop in Italy should have a good selection. Where do I shop mainly? In the Pisa-Lucca
    area, in Italy.

    This afternoon I took a cyclist from Santa Barbara (California) on a quick bike-related tour and I
    think he almost fainted.=20

    If serious about it, write in private.

    Sergio Pisa=20
     
  12. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    >
    > I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is
    the
    > same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986
    Performance
    > catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350.
    The
    > catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in
    Italy
    > to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder
    was
    > given.

    I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put it vintage-wise in the very
    late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out --
    but by the late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable routing under the
    BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get
    one for $350 anymore. I should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
    63cm. -- Jay Beattie. [/B][/QUOTE]


    Jay,
    thanks for the info (and everyone else's too!). I also was thinking vintage-wise this frame is too archaic for 1986. So, I'd say at the very latest it's a 80'-83 vintage frame. I think all road/touring bikes had braze on downtube shifter bosses by then, right? And like you pointed out, the super long campy rear dropouts weren't used as much by mid 80's. Either way, it's a sweet looking frame and in great shape. i just need to find some vintage long reach brakes to put on it.

    Conrad
     
  13. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
    bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.

    I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
    stays and a more laid back geometry.

    Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
    headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
    had chromed forks.

    Art Harris [/B][/QUOTE]


    Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. :)

    Conrad
     
  14. Almost Fast

    Almost Fast Guest

    Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=biemmezeta

    ccrider <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
    > bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.
    >
    > I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
    > stays and a more laid back geometry.
    >
    > Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
    > headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
    > had chromed forks.
    >
    > Art Harris
    >
    >
    > Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. :)
    >
    > Conrad
     
  15. Art Harris

    Art Harris Guest

    ccrider wrote:>
    > Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. :)

    Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!

    At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on the three models. If you
    e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail mail you a copy.

    I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and tangs are identical to yours.
    Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are
    some good photos of it at:

    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/olafbrandt/lst?.dir=/Alps+Tour+2001

    The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set show the bike pretty well.

    Also: http://www.sbraweb.org/photos/2001/jobst/

    Good luck on your project.

    Art Harris
     
  16. Harris

    Harris Guest

  17. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    ccrider wrote:>
    > Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if you are interested. :)

    Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!

    At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on the three models. If you
    e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail mail you a copy.

    I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and tangs are identical to yours.
    Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are
    some good photos of it at:

    http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/olafbrandt/lst?.dir=/Alps+Tour+2001

    The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set show the bike pretty well.

    Also: http://www.sbraweb.org/photos/2001/jobst/

    Good luck on your project.

    Art Harris


    Art,
    I can't pull up your email. but here is my snail mail addr:

    Conrad Castaneda
    618 S. 27th #2
    Lincoln, NE 68510


    photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours would be great!!!! I really appreciate it! Thanks,

    Conrad
     
  18. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    This sounds like a good tip. To anybody out there who actually owns a Biemmezeta, can you check and let us know if 'BMZ' appears on the bb shell of your frame? It would sure help those of us who have these 'mystery' / palo alto imported frames to find out who really made them.
    thanks



    Originally posted by Almost Fast
    Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=biemmezeta

    ccrider <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets, but does have brazed on DT
    > bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.
    >
    > I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP tubing, and had longer
    > stays and a more laid back geometry.
    >
    > Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a "Palo Alto"
    > headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very similar frame, but I think their's
    > had chromed forks.
    >
    > Art Harris
     
  19. Harris

    Harris Guest

    ccrider <[email protected]> wrote:

    > photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours would be great!!!! I really
    > appreciate it! Thanks,

    > Conrad

    I just mailed you a copy of the brochure. One interesting thing in the specs is that the Touring
    model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent
    with what you've got. Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in the
    Light Touring model).

    The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the smaller sizes).

    The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory was wrong about the
    photos. But it's got lots of details about the materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is
    postmarked May 2, 1984.

    Art Harris
     
  20. ccrider

    ccrider New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just mailed you a copy of the brochure. One interesting thing in the specs is that the Touring
    model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent
    with what you've got. Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in the
    Light Touring model).

    The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the smaller sizes).

    The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory was wrong about the
    photos. But it's got lots of details about the materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is
    postmarked May 2, 1984.

    Art Harris

    - - - - - -

    Art,
    I got the copy of the brochure today! THANKS!!!

    Conrad
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...