Who one the 1st president debate?



Bikerman2004 said:
Unfortunately, here it is all television driven. The networks want sound bites. And most viewers here don't have an attention span long enough to listen and make an informed choice. Don't know about the rest of your post. Don't know who that guy is. I'd say Kerry outperformed Bush, based on what I've heard. I was on plane from Houston to Chicago so I missed it. I actually think Bush is more comfortable with the town hall arrangement. I would think the first format would be better for him. It allows for shorter answers.
I think you both made good points when you pointed out how artificial and stilted these debates are. To be fair, there are still quality political debates in the United States, but they're rare; on top of that, this particular situation (the Kerry-Bush race) is a bad-debate perfect storm.

It's the most closely watched, emotionally charged and electorate-polarizing race in ages, so there's an exaggerated sense of high stakes. Presidential races are always high stakes, of course, but this is a new day.

Each succesive election year also sees greater and greater evolutions in the media, and in the information technology we respond to -- polling sciences, internet services, blogs, advocacy sites, fundraising techniques and news delivery methods are all more varied and extreme than they were 4, 8, or 12 years ago.

Throw into the mix a particularly unusual matchup of personalities and styles: could these two guys give off more different auras? It's such a odd missmatch that each side has feverishly over-strategized how to simply appear human next to the other guy. The Bush team has overworked the hell out of preventing the president from coming across as a moron who's too short; the Kerry boys have overworked the hell out of preventing the senator from looking like a wordy jerk with an enormous, wrinkled brow. Every word has been focus-grouped for offensiveness, effectiveness, stickability, toughness and sensitivity.

The lack of real interaction makes it feel like watching two guys play a video game about debating.
 
I think the VEEP debate has a greater probability of looking and feeling more natural, and with a greater exchange of arguments. Both Cheney and Edwards are perceived as intelligent and articulate guys; there's less pressure to ensure that one or the other doesn't appear immensely more intellectual or simple than the other, and less pressure for VEEPs in general to be congenial. I suspect (hope) they'll speak a bit more freely.
 
lokstah said:
I think you both made good points when you pointed out how artificial and stilted these debates are. To be fair, there are still quality political debates in the United States, but they're rare; on top of that, this particular situation (the Kerry-Bush race) is a bad-debate perfect storm.

It's the most closely watched, emotionally charged and electorate-polarizing race in ages, so there's an exaggerated sense of high stakes. Presidential races are always high stakes, of course, but this is a new day.

Each succesive election year also sees greater and greater evolutions in the media, and in the information technology we respond to -- polling sciences, internet services, blogs, advocacy sites, fundraising techniques and news delivery methods are all more varied and extreme than they were 4, 8, or 12 years ago.

Throw into the mix a particularly unusual matchup of personalities and styles: could these two guys give off more different auras? It's such a odd missmatch that each side has feverishly over-strategized how to simply appear human next to the other guy. The Bush team has overworked the hell out of preventing the president from coming across as a moron who's too short; the Kerry boys have overworked the hell out of preventing the senator from looking like a wordy jerk with an enormous, wrinkled brow. Every word has been focus-grouped for offensiveness, effectiveness, stickability, toughness and sensitivity.

The lack of real interaction makes it feel like watching two guys play a video game about debating.
It almost as if they are pre-packaged. Like going to the grocery store to buy something. Which package is more attractive, which is more appealing, regardless of the actual product inside. But that is typical America today.
 
Predictabily, Bush looked like a blithering idiot. Or maybe like a high school snot, snearing at everyone.
 
davidmc said:
True in regards to being an "simple man" not coming off as being overintelligent. Judging by the polls i would agree w/ you that the people who answer the polls & blindly support this president are either wealthy (or at least "well off")or intellectually challenged, not that there's anything wrong w/ that. I'm talking about a person watching the debates who might comment"Hey Martha!!!, did'nt kerry just use a three syllable word? I don't trust him" People seem to feel threatened by a well spoken candidate, as you point out the "simpson syndrome" Another poster pointed out that since when is it improper to have an elected official who's intelligent. I would like to think the country is being better educated but polls would indicate otherwise.
I notice people dodging the issues by saying "this guys character...", instead of outlining thier reasons for choosing one guy over another. I'm giving kerry a chance because i know it would be a statistical impossibility to end up w/ an administration worse than the current one. Thats the beauty of democracy, if the guy's not levelling w/ the people(misleading them)vote 'em out which is what i'm going to do.
Yea, the 'Simpsons' is proof of how satire (intended to enrage people toward change for the better) becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. So many see it and say, "Yea, that's me, SO WHATCHA GONNA DO ABOUT IT?" Instead of introspection and change toward SOME NOTION of self-improvement/ENLIGHTENMENT. Now I know how the 'late J.C.' oftimes felt (deeply thoughtful, and oftimes out of place)! Somebody save us!
 
Bikerman2004 said:
That would be good question. Then Cheney can ask Edwards how much of the the judgements he won he kept and how much went to his clients. Then he can ask how Edwards is going to fix the health care problems. Since it seems he specialized in sueing doctors.
I believe the standard fee is around 35-40% :)
 
lokstah said:
I think the VEEP debate has a greater probability of looking and feeling more natural, and with a greater exchange of arguments. Both Cheney and Edwards are perceived as intelligent and articulate guys; there's less pressure to ensure that one or the other doesn't appear immensely more intellectual or simple than the other, and less pressure for VEEPs in general to be congenial. I suspect (hope) they'll speak a bit more freely.
It's going to be interesting to see Edward's debate the current President (er... i mean Vice President) ;) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565848403/qid=1096947231/sr=11-1
 
ajcoles said:
Predictabily, Bush looked like a blithering idiot. Or maybe like a high school snot, snearing at everyone.
Really? It seems that you describe yourself and your candidate...Bush was probably "sneering" at kerry who is a liar and a cheat...Below is just one of his lies...oh, BTW, you might want to (learn how to spell when calling someone an idiot...)

Kerry recounted how he had (with former Senator Smith (R-NH)) gone down into the bowels of the former KGB under TREBLINKA SQUARE.

Truth... Treblinka was the name of a NAZI EXTERMINATION CAMP

Kerry is so used to making up war stories that he can't tell fact from fiction :p
 
zapper said:
Really? It seems that you describe yourself and your candidate...Bush was probably "sneering" at kerry who is a liar and a cheat...Below is just one of his lies...oh, BTW, you might want to (learn how to spell when calling someone an idiot...)

Kerry recounted how he had (with former Senator Smith (R-NH)) gone down into the bowels of the former KGB under TREBLINKA SQUARE.

Truth... Treblinka was the name of a NAZI EXTERMINATION CAMP

Kerry is so used to making up war stories that he can't tell fact from fiction :p

Name me a politician who doesn't lie? At least none of Kerry's lies have cost any lives. Which is worse lying about your war stories, or lying to start a war? I don't know who is more pathetic, the Bush administration for actually thinking they were fooling anyone or those who continue to buy their line, hook and sinker.
 
zapper said:
Kerry is so used to making up war stories that he can't tell fact from fiction :p
Well, apparently Dubya can't tell the difference between Saddam and Osama. Or al-Qaeda and Iraq. :D
 
pomod said:
Name me a politician who doesn't lie? At least none of Kerry's lies have cost any lives. Which is worse lying about your war stories, or lying to start a war? I don't know who is more pathetic, the Bush administration for actually thinking they were fooling anyone or those who continue to buy their line, hook and sinker.

Now Rumsfeld has admitted that he saw no evidence to link Hussein with Al Qaeda : despite saying that there was evidence to link Al Qaeda to Hussein as
one of the other reasons for going to war (along with the vanishing WMD).
It's always the same with liars - they forget the lie that they told initially.
 
pomod said:
Name me a politician who doesn't lie? At least none of Kerry's lies have cost any lives.
Oh really??Why don't you ask the POW's that were being tortured to his lies elrod...Additionally, how many lives has your boy Kerry put in danger after being absent for 76% of the Senate Intelligence Committee's public hearings during the time he served there. Whoops, wait a minute...he might have actually saved lives by not attending.... :rolleyes:
 
pomod said:
Name me a politician who doesn't lie? At least none of Kerry's lies have cost any lives. Which is worse lying about your war stories, or lying to start a war? I don't know who is more pathetic, the Bush administration for actually thinking they were fooling anyone or those who continue to buy their line, hook and sinker.
Trying to justify one lie as less evil than another is pathetic. If neither can tell the truth then what's the point?
 
zapper said:
Kerry recounted how he had (with former Senator Smith (R-NH)) gone down into the bowels of the former KGB under TREBLINKA SQUARE.

Truth... Treblinka was the name of a NAZI EXTERMINATION CAMP
The former KGB (now FSB) buildings are located at Lubyankaya Square. The main building is a typical grey & brown Stalin-style building. And there is a rumor amongst the people that there is a special prison under one of those buildings. Rather than hound Senator Kerry for possibly confusing "Lubyankaya" with "Treblinka", it would prove to be more interesting to find out if he indeed DID go to Russia to visit the former-KGB complex, as he was apparently attempting to say.
 
pomod said:
Name me a politician who doesn't lie? At least none of Kerry's lies have cost any lives. Which is worse lying about your war stories, or lying to start a war? I don't know who is more pathetic, the Bush administration for actually thinking they were fooling anyone or those who continue to buy their line, hook and sinker.
True, just heard, something like 43%, polled, believe hussein was responsible for 9-11. Who are these "ham n' egger's" who believe this tripe? Maybe they don't read the news as Shrub is prone not to do. :rolleyes:
 
limerickman said:
Now Rumsfeld has admitted that he saw no evidence to link Hussein with Al Qaeda : despite saying that there was evidence to link Al Qaeda to Hussein as
one of the other reasons for going to war (along with the vanishing WMD).
It's always the same with liars - they forget the lie that they told initially.
Does this mean Cheney will be the only 1, left, believing this "fairytale"? :p
 
Danian said:
The former KGB (now FSB) buildings are located at Lubyankaya Square. The main building is a typical grey & brown Stalin-style building. And there is a rumor amongst the people that there is a special prison under one of those buildings. Rather than hound Senator Kerry for possibly confusing "Lubyankaya" with "Treblinka", it would prove to be more interesting to find out if he indeed DID go to Russia to visit the former-KGB complex, as he was apparently attempting to say.
Ah..very refreshing..now there is a call for us all to step back and think about what he actually meant, not what he said...Funny, Kerry made a lot of f%$% ups in the debate this one among them.. I just find it odd, if bush makes a mistake, his words are taken as face value and used against him but when kerry does the same...we need to step back and try to decipher what he really meant to say???? Very amusing :rolleyes:
 
Any questions should be directed to the thread:
George Bush: Former Drunkard, Cocaine-user, War-dodger becomes War President
 
davidmc said:
Does this mean Cheney will be the only 1, left, believing this "fairytale"? :p

You have to be smart to be a good liar and - if proof were ever needed - Rumsfeld certainly isn't smart.

Rumsfeld comments about there being no evidence to link Al Qaeda to Iraq
typifies the double standard, lying, duplicitious, putrid, and incompetent
Bush administration.

Do the right thing on November 2nd - consign this useless, lying goverment to the bin of history.
 
limerickman said:
You have to be smart to be a good liar and - if proof were ever needed - Rumsfeld certainly isn't smart.

Rumsfeld comments about there being no evidence to link Al Qaeda to Iraq
typifies the double standard, lying, duplicitious, putrid, and incompetent
Bush administration.

Do the right thing on November 2nd - consign this useless, lying goverment to the bin of history.
I've already planned it out, i'm going to tell all the pollsters, i see, that "I'm here to vote for the "combat war vetreran". :D
 

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