Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Doe, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Doe

    Doe Guest

    Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity

    Whole grains improve insulin sensitivity, according to a study appearing in tomorrow’s American
    Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Insulin sensitivity is a measure of the body’s efficiency in
    clearing sugar from the bloodstream. Individuals with better insulin sensitivity have reduced risk
    of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and cancer.

    The Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis Study included 978 middle-aged adults with either normal
    or impaired glucose tolerance. Participants whose diets included the most whole-grain foods--dark
    breads (e.g., whole wheat, rye, pumpernickel), bran or granola cereals, and cooked cereals--had
    significantly better innsulin sensitivity, compared to those who tended to skip these foods.

    This effect of whole grains appears to come mostly from their fiber and magnesium. However,
    evidence suggests that the short-chain fatty acids produced as grains are digested also contribute
    to the effect.

    The study is not yet on Medline. Here is the reference:

    Liese AD, Roach AK, Sparks KC, Marquart L, D’Agostino RB Jr., Mayer-Davis EJ. Whole-grain intake
    and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Am J Clin Nutr
    2003;78:965-71.

    For information about nutrition and health, please visit www.pcrm.org.

    Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore!
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  2. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    [email protected] (doe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity
    >
    > Whole grains improve insulin sensitivity, according to a study appearing in tomorrow?s American
    > Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Insulin sensitivity is a measure of the body?s efficiency in
    > clearing sugar from the bloodstream. Individuals with better insulin sensitivity have reduced risk
    > of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    >
    > The Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis Study included 978 middle-aged adults with either
    > normal or impaired glucose tolerance. Participants whose diets included the most whole-grain
    > foods--dark breads (e.g., whole wheat, rye, pumpernickel), bran or granola cereals, and cooked
    > cereals--had significantly better innsulin sensitivity, compared to those who tended to skip
    > these foods.
    >
    > This effect of whole grains appears to come mostly from their fiber and magnesium. However,
    > evidence suggests that the short-chain fatty acids produced as grains are digested also contribute
    > to the effect.
    >
    > The study is not yet on Medline. Here is the reference:
    >
    > Liese AD, Roach AK, Sparks KC, Marquart L, D?Agostino RB Jr., Mayer-Davis EJ. Whole-grain intake
    > and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Am J Clin Nutr
    > 2003;78:965-71.
    >

    Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?

    In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that they
    aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.

    TC
     
  3. "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (doe) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity
    > >
    > > Whole grains improve insulin sensitivity, according to a study appearing
    in
    > > tomorrow?s American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Insulin sensitivity
    is a
    > > measure of the body?s efficiency in clearing sugar from the bloodstream. Individuals with better
    > > insulin sensitivity have reduced risk of
    diabetes,
    > > heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    > >
    > > The Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis Study included 978
    middle-aged
    > > adults with either normal or impaired glucose tolerance. Participants
    whose
    > > diets included the most whole-grain foods--dark breads (e.g., whole
    wheat, rye,
    > > pumpernickel), bran or granola cereals, and cooked cereals--had
    significantly
    > > better innsulin sensitivity, compared to those who tended to skip these
    foods.
    > >
    > > This effect of whole grains appears to come mostly from their fiber and magnesium. However,
    > > evidence suggests that the short-chain fatty acids
    produced
    > > as grains are digested also contribute to the effect.
    > >
    > > The study is not yet on Medline. Here is the reference:
    > >
    > > Liese AD, Roach AK, Sparks KC, Marquart L, D?Agostino RB Jr.,
    Mayer-Davis EJ.
    > > Whole-grain intake and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Am J
    > > Clin Nutr 2003;78:965-71.
    > >
    >
    > Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    > diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    >
    > In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that
    > they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    >
    > TC

    Have you considered that people who exercise are less inactive than those who are inactive?

    In other words, it's not the exercise that's beneficial, it's that they aren't inactive that makes
    the difference.

    : o )
     
  4. Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    >diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?

    >In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that
    >they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.

    Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()

    "... you have my sympathies" Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
     
  5. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]_s53>...
    > "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > [email protected] (doe) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity
    > > >
    > > > Whole grains improve insulin sensitivity, according to a study appearing
    > in
    > > > tomorrow?s American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Insulin sensitivity
    > is a
    > > > measure of the body?s efficiency in clearing sugar from the bloodstream. Individuals with
    > > > better insulin sensitivity have reduced risk of
    > diabetes,
    > > > heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    > > >
    > > > The Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis Study included 978
    > middle-aged
    > > > adults with either normal or impaired glucose tolerance. Participants
    > whose
    > > > diets included the most whole-grain foods--dark breads (e.g., whole
    > wheat, rye,
    > > > pumpernickel), bran or granola cereals, and cooked cereals--had
    > significantly
    > > > better innsulin sensitivity, compared to those who tended to skip these
    > foods.
    > > >
    > > > This effect of whole grains appears to come mostly from their fiber and magnesium. However,
    > > > evidence suggests that the short-chain fatty acids
    > produced
    > > > as grains are digested also contribute to the effect.
    > > >
    > > > The study is not yet on Medline. Here is the reference:
    > > >
    > > > Liese AD, Roach AK, Sparks KC, Marquart L, D?Agostino RB Jr.,
    > Mayer-Davis EJ.
    > > > Whole-grain intake and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Am J
    > > > Clin Nutr 2003;78:965-71.
    > > >
    > >
    > > Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    > > diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    > >
    > > In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that
    > > they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    > >
    > > TC
    >
    > Have you considered that people who exercise are less inactive than those who are inactive?
    >
    > In other words, it's not the exercise that's beneficial, it's that they aren't inactive that makes
    > the difference.
    >
    > : o )

    Either you missed the greater implication of what I said or you aren't interested and chose to be
    flip about it. The implication is that even wholegrain bread in the diet is not necessary for good
    health. Grains, in general, are a recent and un-necessary item in mans diet in any great amounts. It
    causes more problems than it resolves.

    TC
     
  6. "John 'the Man'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    > Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    >
    > >Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    > >diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    >
    > >In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that
    > >they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    >
    > Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
    >
    > "... you have my sympathies" Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.

    TC's an academic!!!??? Good lord, where?
     
  7. "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]_s53>...
    > > "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > [email protected] (doe) wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity
    > > > >
    > > > > Whole grains improve insulin sensitivity, according to a study
    appearing
    > > in
    > > > > tomorrow?s American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Insulin
    sensitivity
    > > is a
    > > > > measure of the body?s efficiency in clearing sugar from the
    bloodstream.
    > > > > Individuals with better insulin sensitivity have reduced risk of
    > > diabetes,
    > > > > heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    > > > >
    > > > > The Insulin Resistance and Atherosclerosis Study included 978
    > > middle-aged
    > > > > adults with either normal or impaired glucose tolerance.
    Participants
    > > whose
    > > > > diets included the most whole-grain foods--dark breads (e.g., whole
    > > wheat, rye,
    > > > > pumpernickel), bran or granola cereals, and cooked cereals--had
    > > significantly
    > > > > better innsulin sensitivity, compared to those who tended to skip
    these
    > > foods.
    > > > >
    > > > > This effect of whole grains appears to come mostly from their fiber
    and
    > > > > magnesium. However, evidence suggests that the short-chain fatty
    acids
    > > produced
    > > > > as grains are digested also contribute to the effect.
    > > > >
    > > > > The study is not yet on Medline. Here is the reference:
    > > > >
    > > > > Liese AD, Roach AK, Sparks KC, Marquart L, D?Agostino RB Jr.,
    > > Mayer-Davis EJ.
    > > > > Whole-grain intake and insulin sensitivity: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Am
    > > > > J Clin Nutr 2003;78:965-71.
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in
    > > > their diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    > > >
    > > > In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's
    > > > that they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    > > >
    > > > TC
    > >
    > > Have you considered that people who exercise are less inactive than those who are inactive?
    > >
    > > In other words, it's not the exercise that's beneficial, it's that they aren't inactive that
    > > makes the difference.
    > >
    > > : o )
    >
    > Either you missed the greater implication of what I said or you aren't interested and chose to be
    > flip about it. The implication is that even wholegrain bread in the diet is not necessary for good
    > health. Grains, in general, are a recent and un-necessary item in mans diet in any great amounts.
    > It causes more problems than it resolves.
    >
    > TC

    All the above. I know, I know: grains are evil. It's just that whole grains are less evil than
    refined grains. If you want to eat really well, substitute bacon fat for whole grains.

    I have it on the authority of my paleolithic progen- itors that my ancestors ate lots of grains.
    They saw birds eating them and they tried them. They found them too hard a chew; then they
    discovered that if they soaked them in gourds of water, they soft- ened and even sprouted. Soaking
    grains predated cooking meat.

    Grains want us to eat them. When we fool around (harvest and eat) them, we spread and plant them.
    Animal don't want us to eat them. Eating meat causes more problems than it resolves.

    George (Goes with the grain) Cherry
     
  8. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]_s54>...
    > "John 'the Man'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    > > Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    > >
    > > >Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in their
    > > >diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    >
    > > >In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's that
    > > >they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    > >
    > > Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
    > >
    > > "... you have my sympathies" Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
    >
    > TC's an academic!!!??? Good lord, where?

    I do hereby categorically refute and deny any allusion to my being an academic. I have way more
    common sense than any academic.

    TC
     
  9. Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >Grains, in general, are a recent and un-necessary item in mans diet in any great amounts. It causes
    >more problems than it resolves.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    You missed what WE said, TC!

    Just thought that you might want to know. :)
     
  10. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]_s54>... <snip>

    > >
    > > Either you missed the greater implication of what I said or you aren't interested and chose to
    > > be flip about it. The implication is that even wholegrain bread in the diet is not necessary for
    > > good health. Grains, in general, are a recent and un-necessary item in mans diet in any great
    > > amounts. It causes more problems than it resolves.
    > >
    > > TC
    >
    > All the above. I know, I know: grains are evil. It's just that whole grains are less evil than
    > refined grains.

    I agree. Todays grains are evil. Gluten is a real problem for many people, and the more refined the
    grains the more they have an impact on obesity.

    > If you want to eat really well, substitute bacon fat for whole grains.

    Real funny, but I don't know anyone who supports this ridiculous notion.

    >
    > I have it on the authority of my paleolithic progen- itors that my ancestors ate lots of grains.
    > They saw birds eating them and they tried them. They found them too hard a chew; then they
    > discovered that if they soaked them in gourds of water, they soft- ened and even sprouted. Soaking
    > grains predated cooking meat.
    >

    Ancient grains were much, much smaller and there was much fewer numbers of grains per plant than
    their modern day counterparts. Todays grains have been radically changes by human selective breeding
    in the last few thousand years. Comparing paleolithic peoples eating of grains with us and our
    modern day grains is very much comparing apples to oranges. Not a all applicable.

    > Grains want us to eat them.When we fool around (harvest and eat) them, we spread and plant them.

    I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it is
    hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.

    > Animal don't want us to eat them.

    I guess not!

    > Eating meat causes more problems than it resolves.
    >

    Not for the predator species. It resolves a great deal more problems than it causes. Humans are
    primarily predators and carnivorous omnivores. We can survive on all kinds of crap but we will
    only reach optimum health with a good amount of animal protein and fat in the diet and with little
    or no grains.

    TC
     
  11. "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]_s54>...
    > > "John 'the Man'" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    > > > Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    > > >
    > > > >Have you considered that people who eat whole grain breads get much less refined carbs in
    > > > >their diets than those who eat refined white flour breads?
    > >
    > > > >In other words, its not that they eat whole grain bread that is the beneficial thing, it's
    > > > >that they aren't eating refined carbs that makes tha difference.
    > > >
    > > > Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
    > > >
    > > > "... you have my sympathies" Science Officer Ash to Ripley, in the movie ALIEN.
    > >
    > > TC's an academic!!!??? Good lord, where?
    >
    > I do hereby categorically refute and deny any allusion to my being an academic. I have way more
    > common sense than any academic.
    >
    > TC

    I was incredulous that any university (or highschool) would hire a guy who believes bacon fat is
    more healthful than whole oat and barley grains. And you base all this on your carnivorous teeth and
    predator speed?

    GC
     
  12. Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >> TC's an academic!!!??? Good lord, where?

    >I do hereby categorically refute and deny any allusion to my being an academic. I have way more
    >common sense than any academic.

    From this thread you have demonstrated that you don't have a life.

    Just thought that you might want to know. :)
     
  13. "tcomeau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:<[email protected]_s54>...
    > <snip>
    >
    > > >
    > > > Either you missed the greater implication of what I said or you aren't interested and chose to
    > > > be flip about it. The implication is that even wholegrain bread in the diet is not necessary
    > > > for good health. Grains, in general, are a recent and un-necessary item in mans diet in any
    > > > great amounts. It causes more problems than it resolves.
    > > >
    > > > TC
    > >
    > > All the above. I know, I know: grains are evil. It's just that whole grains are less evil than
    > > refined grains.
    >
    > I agree. Todays grains are evil. Gluten is a real problem for many people, and the more refined
    > the grains the more they have an impact on obesity.
    >
    > > If you want to eat really well, substitute bacon fat for whole grains.
    >
    > Real funny, but I don't know anyone who supports this ridiculous notion.
    >
    > >
    > > I have it on the authority of my paleolithic progen- itors that my ancestors ate lots of grains.
    > > They saw birds eating them and they tried them. They found them too hard a chew; then they
    > > discovered that if they soaked them in gourds of water, they soft- ened and even sprouted.
    > > Soaking grains predated cooking meat.
    > >
    >
    > Ancient grains were much, much smaller and there was much fewer numbers of grains per plant than
    > their modern day counterparts. Todays grains have been radically changes by human selective
    > breeding in the last few thousand years. Comparing paleolithic peoples eating of grains with us
    > and our modern day grains is very much comparing apples to oranges. Not a all applicable.
    >
    > > Grains want us to eat them.When we fool around (harvest and eat) them, we spread and plant them.
    >
    > I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it is
    > hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.
    >
    > > Animal don't want us to eat them.
    >
    > I guess not!
    >
    > > Eating meat causes more problems than it resolves.
    > >
    >
    > Not for the predator species. It resolves a great deal more problems than it causes. Humans are
    > primarily predators and carnivorous omnivores. We can survive on all kinds of crap but we will
    > only reach optimum health with a good amount of animal protein and fat in the diet and with little
    > or no grains.
    >
    > TC

    Please post a jpeg of your carnivorous teeth and jaws Factory farming, stockyards, and supermarkets
    are are ways of surviving on all kinds of crap, but you will only reach optimum health with a good
    amount of leaves, roots, grains, legumes, and seeds, as our ancestors did.

    George (Going with the grains) Cherry

    I buy whole organic grains, soak, sprout, and cook them. I eschew all meat, especially the bacon fat
    you love so much. Actually, I'm an ovo-lacto-mollusk veg- atarian. Have you had your bacon fat
    today, TC?

    How come you don't have the configuration of all the other predators? How come the other primates
    don't eat meat?
     
  14. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    "George W. Cherry" wrote:

    > > > Grains want us to eat them.When we fool around (harvest and eat) them, we spread and plant
    > > > them.
    > >
    > > I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it is
    > > hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.

    Since grains are the seed and not the fruit they don't want to be eaten since it destroys them.

    > Please post a jpeg of your carnivorous teeth and jaws Factory farming, stockyards, and
    > supermarkets are are ways of surviving on all kinds of crap, but you will only reach optimum
    > health with a good amount of leaves, roots, grains, legumes, and seeds, as our ancestors did.
    >
    > George (Going with the grains) Cherry
    >
    > I buy whole organic grains, soak, sprout, and cook them.

    Then you're eating seedlings, not starchy grains.

    > How come you don't have the configuration of all the other predators? How come the other primates
    > don't eat meat?

    Some do. Chimps for instance are partial to certain monkeys.

    MattLB
     
  15. Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >> > I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it
    >> > is hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.

    >Since grains are the seed and not the fruit they don't want to be eaten since it destroys them.

    Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()

    Birds eat seeds. They fly great distances. And, deposit the seeds still intact and viable in their
    bird droppings. The seeds grow and promulgate the species.

    Darwinian evolution is about the survival of the species, not the individual.

    Just thought that you might want to know. :)
     
  16. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote
    in > >

    > > Not for the predator species. It resolves a great deal more problems than it causes. Humans are
    > > primarily predators and carnivorous omnivores. We can survive on all kinds of crap but we will
    > > only reach optimum health with a good amount of animal protein and fat in the diet and with
    > > little or no grains.
    > >
    > > TC
    >
    > Please post a jpeg of your carnivorous teeth and jaws Factory farming, stockyards, and
    > supermarkets are are ways of surviving on all kinds of crap, but you will only reach optimum
    > health with a good amount of leaves, roots, grains, legumes, and seeds, as our ancestors did.
    >
    > George (Going with the grains) Cherry
    >
    > I buy whole organic grains, soak, sprout, and cook them. I eschew all meat, especially the bacon
    > fat you love so much. Actually, I'm an ovo-lacto-mollusk veg- atarian. Have you had your bacon fat
    > today, TC?
    >
    > How come you don't have the configuration of all the other predators? How come the other primates
    > don't eat meat?

    Just happened to run across this:

    "Native to the forests of West and Central Africa, chimpanzees are quite social and live in large
    multi-male, multi-female groups. In the wild their diet consists of plants and animals, such as
    small forest antelopes, monkeys, and other small animals."

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031106/deth012_1.html

    Humans are primarily predators. Eyes in front with good depth of field. We use tools, ie. weapons.
    Canine and incisors are used for tearing meat. Short GI tract similar to other predator species.

    Non-predator species that subsist on veg matter have grinding teeth, long GI tracts, in some cases
    multiple stomachs, eyes to the side of the head with great peripheral vision, large ears, etc.

    TC
     
  17. "George W. Cherry" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >How come you don't have the configuration of all the other predators? How come the other primates
    >don't eat meat?

    Where did you get the idea that other primates don't eat meat?! Of course they do.

    --
    Marcio Watanabe
     
  18. "MattLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "George W. Cherry" wrote:
    >
    > > > > Grains want us to eat them.When we fool around (harvest and eat) them, we spread and plant
    > > > > them.
    > > >
    > > > I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it
    > > > is hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.

    Plants don't have methods and strategies. Mother nature doesn't "intend" anything.
    : o ) (Sorry, I know you are speaking
    metaphorically.

    > Since grains are the seed and not the fruit they don't want to be eaten since it destroys them.

    We "planted" some of them with our poop shooters, the same way birds plant some of the seeds
    they swallow.

    > > Please post a jpeg of your carnivorous teeth and jaws Factory farming, stockyards, and
    > > supermarkets are are ways of surviving on all kinds of crap, but you will only reach optimum
    > > health with a good amount of leaves, roots, grains, legumes, and seeds, as our ancestors did.
    > >
    > > George (Going with the grains) Cherry
    > >
    > > I buy whole organic grains, soak, sprout, and cook them.

    > Then you're eating seedlings, not starchy grains.

    Yes, that's why I soak and sprout them. But in handling the seeds, our progenitors dropped and
    scattered some and thereby planted them. Soaked seeds are still seeds, in fact "primed" or
    "forced" seeds.

    > > How come you don't have the configuration of all the other predators?

    I'm still waiting for a .jpeg or .gif of TC's carnivorous fangs and claws and his predator
    configuration.

    > > How come the other primates don't eat meat?

    > Some do. Chimps for instance are partial to certain monkeys.
    >
    > MattLB

    Yes, Jane Goodall was shocked and astonished after many years of field research to discover that one
    chimp and its offspring were cannibals. (Cann- ibalism is rearing its head again in Africa.) But no
    other primate eats NEARLY so much meat as we do nowadays when it's right there between the milk and
    fresh produce in the supermarket.

    George W. Cherry
     
  19. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    John 'the Man' wrote:
    >
    > Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin
    > Sensitivity." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    >
    > >> > I will agree that plants have some interesting methods and strategies for propagation, but it
    > >> > is hardly proof that mother nature intended humans to eat large amounts of grains.
    >
    > >Since grains are the seed and not the fruit they don't want to be eaten since it destroys them.
    >
    > Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
    >
    > Birds eat seeds. They fly great distances. And, deposit the seeds still intact and viable in their
    > bird droppings.

    Think about it. If that were true birds would starve. You're confusing birds eating seeds with birds
    eating berries. When they eat berries, they get the nutrition from the fruit and the tiny seeds do
    pass through undigested.

    > Darwinian evolution is about the survival of the species, not the individual.

    Natural selection always operates at the level of the individual and whether or not they produce
    offspring. Survival of a species depends on survival of a sufficient number of the individuals of
    that species.

    MattLB
     
  20. Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: Whole Grains Improve Insulin Sensitivity."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >> Birds eat seeds. They fly great distances. And, deposit the seeds still intact and viable in
    >> their bird droppings.

    >Think about it. If that were true birds would starve. You're confusing birds eating seeds with
    >birds eating berries. When they eat berries, they get the nutrition from the fruit and the tiny
    >seeds do pass through undigested.

    I suggest that you try thinking about it!

    It takes only one seed to sprout out of thousands eaten by one bird for the species to propagate.

    Darwinian evolution is about the survival of the species, not the individual.

    Just thought that you might want to know. :)
     
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