Who's to blame?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Velo Labs, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Velo Labs

    Velo Labs New Member

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    Should we blame the guy in the front or the guy in the back?
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Three guys overlapping and closing too fast on slowing field riders ahead. In hindsight the Velo Lab rider (the OP?) should have went wide left. Probably forced the guy behind and to his left to go wide, also, but them's the facts of life when it starts to bunch up. Find that hole if it's all ya got. Velo Lab rider got stymied. Guy behind him has to react to prevent getting stymied. That's his problem. He's the driver of his rig and both of them are left of the white line at the point of the collision and fall.

    Matter of fact, all three initial fallers were left of the centerline when the contact and crash occurred. First guy is forced left and Velo Labs leans into the contact guy. Both are losing control after contact and moving farther left as they fell into the third initial faller. Dominoes after that.

    Could have been ugly if vehicles were over taking at the time of the fall. That Prius had just cleared the area when it all went South.

    Fault? Were you racing? If so...racing incident. Swear at each other, shake hands and do it again next week. If it was just a fast training ride (I didn't see any numbers pinned on the flipping riders) everyone gets an ass chewing...for the slowing, braking, failure to hold a line, the usual shit.

    Line judge, Field Referee and Backfield Judge agree. Upon review of the play. No Blame is assigned. Everyone buys their own bandages, ointment of choice and new bike parts. Cost of beer comes out of the winnings on the podium place riders. All the lies told of the epic crash in future drinking sessions will from this day forth be held as The Absolute Truth And Nothing But The Truth.

    And always remember...chicks dig scars.
     
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  3. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    It looked like to me the guy in the back that was passing the front guy leaned right into the front guy, and I hate to say it but it looked intentional, look at the face of that person as he does the deed. Of course the third and fourth guys were innocent victims that could't avoid the crash. Racing? sure, but that looked intentional to me, not sure why someone would do that intentionally. But I could be wrong. If it was intentional then that rider responsible should be banned.
     
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  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Velo Lab rider saw it coming.

    Vietvelo rider was already moving left and crossed the centerline to pass the slowing rider in the green jersey that was in front of him.

    Vietvelo rider had also just been passed by the camera bike and was about to be passed by the Velo Lab rider.

    Velo Lab rider reacted to the contact with a lean in an attempt to stay upright. He leaned to his right, but his only chance to stay up would have been a hard and risky hook to his left. Even that move 'might' have taken down the rider that was over-lapping his wheel just behind and to his left.

    It all goes tits up after that...as it usually does.

    If the centerline or lane rule was in effect at least the first three fallers would have been DQ'd and left to lick their wounds. Hopefully no one was seriously injured in the crash. The one rider ended up against the oncoming lane's curb. NOT GOOD!
     
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  5. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    And this is where inexperienced wannebe racers fail. The one guy that moves slightly to his left does so because he was drafting the guy in front of him, and you can see the effect of that draft because that rider actually stops pedaling, now he's able to make pass so he moves to his right about 6 inches. The guy behind that guy attempting to pass should have seen that he was drafting real close and the pass was going to happen, but he didn't allow it, so he over aggressively, or overly ignorantly (take your pick) tries to pass the passer by body checking him which failed because it took out both riders including a non participant in the passing sequence. I've seen many lean in's, that was more then lean in necessary to try to stay upright, he went as far as to hit the guy in the back, when all he needed to do was lean into the other riders shoulder and arm area. Those types of actions are risky to say the least even with a good lean in not alone smacking him in the back with force.

    The rider not involved in the tussle got the worst of it all, he slammed his hip hard onto the pavement then smacked the curb; the fourth guy I can't really tell how bad his fall was due to the distance by then of the camera. Pretty sure most of them didn't feel real well waking up the next day, not to mention the agony of repairing their bikes.

    I had thought about racing again when I retired, but I had to dismiss it when I had to have fusion done to my lower back, I don't want to crash hard back there that's for sure! By watching that crash if I was one of the 4 riders I probably would have had a real high chance of going to the ER with a major issue with my back. Not something I want to do again...back surgery that is.
     
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  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Watch the TdF, Giro, Vuelta, any Classic or local Cat Pro-1-2 race. Crashes galore.

    Experience has nothing to with it. Speed, proximity and a bunch of guys that would slit their mother's throat for a $5 medal does.

    There's only two types of racers. Those have have crashed and those that are going to crash again.
     
  7. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Experience has a lot to do with it, most percentages of crashes with the lowest level Cat 5 (what we use to call crash 5, not sure if that term is used anymore) and very slowly taper off percentage wise till you get to the pro ranks where crashes occur less frequently...that doesn't mean they never crash, it means crash occurs less frequently. You race, so you know that the crash situation is far worst at Cat 5 then at Cat 1, Cat 5 no one knows how to communicate with others, what to look out for, how to draft, etc, etc, etc. What you said is how I heard once that there are 3 types of racers, those who have crashed, those who will crash, and those who are crashing!

    I got lucky, lucky is the term most people identify with but I think I was blessed, but anyway I never had a crash in race, I had extremely close calls, once it sent me careening across the pavement still upright on the bike and wrestled back control of the bike, that was the one time I thought I knew I was going down, still not sure how I managed to stay upright and continue on my merry way, the guy that hit me went down, and I almost took out someone else as I shot across but we missed each other. I've only had two crashes and each of those were while I was commuting to work, never in training or racing! Another odd thing...I never crashed out when I was doing auto sports (racing) either. If that's not being blessed I don't know what is!!!
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    There were no 5's in my day. Started as a 'B' (ABLA) and then as a 4 (USCF).

    4 crashes were stupid, but no more frequent than my 3 races. Just lower speed and usually involved less riders and less serious injuries than when I moved into (slightly) faster ranks. Most of the 4 shit happened behind me and even when I was racing on the back of things you could smell the squirrels from 6 rows back.

    I will admit to having been knocked to the deck by a guy that thought my rear derailleur was a travel stop, but that was in some retarded citizen class event we all did for the fun of racing it. Must have banged into me three or four times before taking us out...and a couple other dudes. I had no where to go in the field and all I could do was yell at him to back off. Which he did just about as well as Mister 600 Watt's comprehends reality.

    I did a road race a few years ago. 4-mile square circuit with one decent climb and one taxing upgrade drag into the wind.

    4's did something like 5 laps.
    3's did something like 7 laps.
    1-2's did something like 10 laps.

    Other than the distance, the lap times were almost identical and the one crash worth noting in that event was the 1-2's. One guy overcooked a turn and took down a significant number of riders. I'm pretty sure he pulled a rookie mistake and banged a pedal by coming out of the turn too early. At least according to my bud that made it through that mess.

    The reason I tell you this is because I was watching a Tour stage (IIRC it was the Tour) and a French rider (again, IIRC) was off the front on a fast descent that would have carried him to victory at the finish line...except...he banged a pedal and went down. Well experienced. Alone. But, he would have carved his momma a new smile to win that stage. I'll see if I can dig up the video.

    I will say...you'll never see a 4 ride into a stalled moto on the side of l'Ape as the crowds close in, but the pro's fall down with ridiculous predictability.
     
  9. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Didn't find it yet, but here's Julian Aliphillipe wrecking. Caused by a wind gust! Ouch! [​IMG]
     
  10. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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  12. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    CampyBob tells us that everyone crashes as if there weren't reasons for it. On another group there were people like CampyBob and they were all the F-ing experts about things. So the actual Pros and the pro mechanics would not sign-on because CampyBob and his act-alikes would take one entry to tell them they didn't know what they were talking about.

    So I would ask questions and get absolutely ignorant crap from Campy and his act-alikes and later I would get emails from actual pro mechanics explaining why they did things the way they do. They explained that despite the ignorance of Campyblob - TT bikes were using tubeless tires. They have 8% rolling resistance and anyone that didn't take advantage of that was a fool. That the ONLY reason they were using tubulars was because of the speed with which a mechanic could replace the tire and put it back up on the roof rack which has limited storage space for wheels.

    While CampyBob is drooling all over this group with his professional ignorance I actually emailed Continental and they told me that despite stupid claims to the contrary that they are releasing tubeless tires hopefully this spring.

    And despite the loud mouthed ignorance of Campyblob, half of ALL of the present racing tires are designed to be tubeless.

    That the reason that MOST of the professional peloton crash is because of flats and those flats are caused because the fans will break bottles on the road to keep the peloton from catching their favorite riders in a breakaway.

    But instead of knowledge from the horse's mouth because of CampyBlob we get ignorance from the horse's ass.
     
  13. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Hey tommy, go fuck yourself. You're a loser and a liar. Emails from "pro mechanics"! LMFAO!

    Tell us again how you can make 600 Watts for an entire hour. You miserable fucking lying sack of shit. All you know is lies and lying. You're a pathetic excuse for a man.

    C'mon, tommy. Post your palmares. Let's see what you've done with your miserable life and your "roller bearing jockey pulley". Jeezus. What a fucking moron. A "roller bearing" jockey pulley! LMFAO!
     
    #13 CAMPYBOB, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  14. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    MY palmares? You published yours and it was a second place finish in a three man race! You sure must be proud of that to make such a big deal out of it. That you seem to have old junk bicycles isn't particularly bad. I had the luck to be a pretty important electronics engineer so I could afford fairly descent stuff which I built myself from the frame up.

    I hope you don't think you're frightening anyone with your gutter language. That's the sort of thing a hubcap thief has to say.
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Just as I thought. All you ever did was stuff your mouth.

    "Important"...LMFAO! All you ever were and are is a pathetic liar.

    Mr. 600 Watts For An Hour!!!

    Dickhead.
     
  16. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Where in Ohio did you say you lived? There is usually race results posted for the clubs in areas. It ought to be funny to post your real results.
     
  17. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Feel free. Right after you post your 600 Watt FTP test results and find a carbon bike manufatured in Chicago for $990!!!. LMFAO!

    Jeezus! I've never run into another moron on the web as dumb as you. Even Alf runs a distant seond to your idiocy.
     
  18. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I didn't think you wanted the truth to get out.
     
  19. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    The truth? WTF do YOU know about the truth?

    You're the biggest liar ever to post here, Mr. "I can hold 600 Watts for an hour!". LMFAO! "Carbon bikes and helmets are unsafe!" "Only tubeless tires are what racers use!" "Professional bicycle mechanics call me!" LMFAO! You're a fucking idiot! "You can make a cross bike into a road racer just by changing wheels!" Weeee doggies! And the stoopid never stops with this one!

    C'mon tommy. Let's see your FTP test results. And let's see that Chicago-manufactured carbon bicycle frameset. You know...the one that's actually manufactured in Chicago, China! Call Ernesto today! Operators are standing! Bye!

    But wait! There's MOAR! If you order today, Ernesto is throwing in a bowel of noodles with every Montrose ordered! 6 to 8 weeks later your box from China will arrive!

    Holy shit! You're the goddamned dumbest moron on the web.
     
  20. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I've been waiting for someone to ask the obvious question - what do you think the difference is between a fixie and a track bike.
     
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