Why are the views so different?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Francispoon, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have
    held onto the view that my kind of tinnitus comes from poor blood
    circulation in the brain. Against this background, they have gone
    ahead to have do the following for me:
    (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs. other
    forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My tinnitus came to me a
    few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine regimen from calcium channel
    blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE inhibitor. I was off diurectis and back
    to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of today, the ringing is 80-90% gone! I cross my
    fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics thickens the blood, and does not dilate vessels the way
    calcium channel blocker does, according to my ENT doctor. Well, he is the expert.
    (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck that might
    have hindered blood supply to the head.
    (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.

    All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe is what
    has produced my tinnitus.

    On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation as
    *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused to
    look into that direction. And some even suggest that hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat
    tinniuts patients.

    Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I have
    noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.

    FP
     
    Tags:


  2. On 3 Feb 2004 23:35:57 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote
    (in part):

    >ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that my kind
    >of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain.

    >On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation as
    >*one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused to look
    >into that direction.

    >Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently?

    ..................

    Training? In tinnitus? FP, there *is* no training in tinnitus.

    In order to have meaningful and effective training programs in tinnitus, those who would do the
    training would need to have a good understanding of tinnitus. In the grand scheme of things our
    understanding of tinnitus is truly in its infancy. And for it to develop at more than a snail's
    pace, research dollars are needed. Lots of them.

    Problem is: with very few exceptions, tinnitus is just not a high enough priority in anybody's mind
    to capture those dollars - anybody's but the tinnitus sufferer, that is.

    Now, nobody here said that circulation problems is not the cause of your tinnitus. What they said,
    as I recall, is that there have been no studies that have demonstated decreased circulation to cause
    tinnitus - and, more importantly, there have been no studies demonstrating that improving
    circulation resolves it.

    Why is there a difference in views? Well, part of it is geographical bias and part of it is
    philosophical bias. But the truth is that nobody *knows*. Those docs who are telling you it's a
    circulation problem? They're just giving it their best shot - and, likely, buying some time in the
    hopes that as the weeks and months pass, nature will accomplish was medicine has yet to do in any
    *predictable* way - relieve yuor tinnitus.

    smn
     
  3. [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that my kind
    > of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this background, they have
    > gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs. other
    > forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My tinnitus came to me
    > a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine regimen from calcium channel
    > blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE inhibitor. I was off diurectis and
    > back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of today, the ringing is 80-90% gone! I
    > cross my fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics thickens the blood, and does not dilate
    > vessels the way calcium channel blocker does, according to my ENT doctor. Well, he is the
    > expert.
    > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck that
    > might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    >
    > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe is
    > what has produced my tinnitus.
    >
    > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation as
    > *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused to
    > look into that direction. And some even suggest that hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat
    > tinniuts patients.
    >
    > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I have
    > noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    >
    > FP

    The training is different, Francis.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    --
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
     
  4. Tonyjeffs

    Tonyjeffs Guest

    [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that my kind
    > of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this background, they have
    > gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs. other
    > forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My tinnitus came to me
    > a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine regimen from calcium channel
    > blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE inhibitor. I was off diurectis and
    > back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of today, the ringing is 80-90% gone! I
    > cross my fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics thickens the blood, and does not dilate
    > vessels the way calcium channel blocker does, according to my ENT doctor. Well, he is the
    > expert.
    > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck that
    > might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    >
    > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe is
    > what has produced my tinnitus.
    >
    > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation as
    > *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused to
    > look into that direction. And some even suggest that hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat
    > tinniuts patients.
    >
    > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I have
    > noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    >
    > FP

    In the past there's been a lot of vested interested involved which has shaped the western bias. And
    the ease with which people can carry out dramatic *looking* research with PET and MRI scanners means
    that they invariably seek out and find explanations giving a neuroscientific cause for everything.

    Blood flow is simply unfashionable and not complicated enough for the west.

    I have one of the neuroscience explanations on my website, but personally I think blood flow is
    most likely.

    www.tonyjeffs.com/tinnitus
     
  5. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that my
    > > kind of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this background, they
    > > have gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs.
    > > other forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My tinnitus
    > > came to me a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine regimen from
    > > calcium channel blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE inhibitor. I was off
    > > diurectis and back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of today, the ringing is 80-
    > > 90% gone! I cross my fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics thickens the blood, and does
    > > not dilate vessels the way calcium channel blocker does, according to my ENT doctor. Well, he
    > > is the expert.
    > > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck that
    > > might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    > >
    > > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe is
    > > what has produced my tinnitus.
    > >
    > > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation as
    > > *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused to
    > > look into that direction. And some even suggest that hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat
    > > tinniuts patients.
    > >
    > > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I have
    > > noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    > >
    > > FP
    >
    > In the past there's been a lot of vested interested involved which has shaped the western bias.
    > And the ease with which people can carry out dramatic *looking* research with PET and MRI scanners
    > means that they invariably seek out and find explanations giving a neuroscientific cause for
    > everything.
    >
    > Blood flow is simply unfashionable and not complicated enough for the west.
    >
    > I have one of the neuroscience explanations on my website, but personally I think blood flow is
    > most likely.

    I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a very
    clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    (2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    (2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into that
    direction.

    FP
    >
    > www.tonyjeffs.com/tinnitus
     
  6. francispoon wrote:

    > [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that my
    > > > kind of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this background, they
    > > > have gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > > > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs.
    > > > other forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My tinnitus
    > > > came to me a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine regimen from
    > > > calcium channel blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE inhibitor. I was
    > > > off diurectis and back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of today, the ringing
    > > > is 80-90% gone! I cross my fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics thickens the blood, and
    > > > does not dilate vessels the way calcium channel blocker does, according to my ENT doctor.
    > > > Well, he is the expert.
    > > > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > > > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck that
    > > > might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > > > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    > > >
    > > > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe
    > > > is what has produced my tinnitus.
    > > >
    > > > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood circulation
    > > > as *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors have even refused
    > > > to look into that direction. And some even suggest that hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat
    > > > tinniuts patients.
    > > >
    > > > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I have
    > > > noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    > > >
    > > > FP
    > >
    > > In the past there's been a lot of vested interested involved which has shaped the western bias.
    > > And the ease with which people can carry out dramatic *looking* research with PET and MRI
    > > scanners means that they invariably seek out and find explanations giving a neuroscientific
    > > cause for everything.
    > >
    > > Blood flow is simply unfashionable and not complicated enough for the west.
    > >
    > > I have one of the neuroscience explanations on my website, but personally I think blood flow is
    > > most likely.
    >
    > I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    > very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    > (2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > (2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into that
    > direction.
    >
    > FP
    >

    Medicine is an art. There is science to guide us but each person is different.

    God is that powerful. He doesn't need an assembly line.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    --
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
     
  7. On 6 Feb 2004 06:09:20 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:

    >I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    >very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    >(2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    >(2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into that
    > direction.

    .............

    First of all, nobody refused to look in any direction. What I, for instance, said is that there are
    no controlled scientific studies supporting your contention. That doesn't mean your contention is
    incorrect or invalid. All it means is that at this point it has not been supportable scientifically.
    Maybe tomorrow a study supporting it will be done.

    Secondly, there *are* no experts in "alt" - there's just a bunch of folks with their own
    backgrounds, their own biases, and their own brains trying to give it their best shot. My goodness,
    you are a harsh judge of folk just trying to help you.

    smn
     
  8. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > francispoon wrote:
    >
    > > [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message
    > > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that
    > > > > my kind of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this background,
    > > > > they have gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > > > > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain vs.
    > > > > other forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My
    > > > > tinnitus came to me a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine
    > > > > regimen from calcium channel blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE
    > > > > inhibitor. I was off diurectis and back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As of
    > > > > today, the ringing is 80-90% gone! I cross my fingers that it will keep up. Diurectics
    > > > > thickens the blood, and does not dilate vessels the way calcium channel blocker does,
    > > > > according to my ENT doctor. Well, he is the expert.
    > > > > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > > > > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck
    > > > > that might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > > > > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    > > > >
    > > > > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they believe
    > > > > is what has produced my tinnitus.
    > > > >
    > > > > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood
    > > > > circulation as *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors
    > > > > have even refused to look into that direction. And some even suggest that
    > > > > hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat tinniuts patients.
    > > > >
    > > > > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I
    > > > > have noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    > > > >
    > > > > FP
    > > >
    > > > In the past there's been a lot of vested interested involved which has shaped the western
    > > > bias. And the ease with which people can carry out dramatic *looking* research with PET and
    > > > MRI scanners means that they invariably seek out and find explanations giving a
    > > > neuroscientific cause for everything.
    > > >
    > > > Blood flow is simply unfashionable and not complicated enough for the west.
    > > >
    > > > I have one of the neuroscience explanations on my website, but personally I think blood flow
    > > > is most likely.
    > >
    > > I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    > > very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    > > (2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > > (2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into
    > > that direction.
    > >
    > > FP
    > >
    >
    > Medicine is an art.

    The first time I hear this from a ph.d. It was your 'suspicion' that gave me the courage to do away
    with hydrochloridethiazide about 10 days ago. That day when it was taken out, the noise was reduced
    by 70%. HCDZ did not cause my T but exacerbate it, making some 'stedio sound' effect in my head,
    which was quite horrible.

    Once again, praise the Lord and you are the servant of the Lord.

    FP
    ==========================

    There is science to guide us but each person is different.
    >
    > God is that powerful. He doesn't need an assembly line.
    >
    >
    > Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
    >
    > Andrew
    >
    > --
    > Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
     
  9. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 6 Feb 2004 06:09:20 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:
    >
    >
    > >I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    > >very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    > >(2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > >(2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into that
    > > direction.
    >
    > .............
    >
    > First of all, nobody refused to look in any direction. What I, for instance, said is that there
    > are no controlled scientific studies supporting your contention.

    The "controlled" studies in the English speaking world only!!!! But you have not wandered into other
    worlds yet! The herb extract formulae the doctor in China is using on me is named (ZHUSHEYONG
    XUESAITONG). For your information, the English speaking world is just *one* of the many worlds in
    the whole globe!!!

    FP
    ===========================================

    That doesn't mean your contention is
    > incorrect or invalid. All it means is that at this point it has not been supportable
    > scientifically. Maybe tomorrow a study supporting it will be done.
    >
    > Secondly, there *are* no experts in "alt" - there's just a bunch of folks with their own
    > backgrounds, their own biases, and their own brains trying to give it their best shot. My
    > goodness, you are a harsh judge of folk just trying to help you.
    >
    > smn
     
  10. On 6 Feb 2004 17:47:27 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:

    >The "controlled" studies in the English speaking world only!!!! But you have not wandered into
    >other worlds yet! The herb extract formulae the doctor in China is using on me is named (ZHUSHEYONG
    >XUESAITONG). For your information, the English speaking world is just *one* of the many worlds in
    >the whole globe!!!
    >
    >FP

    .............

    Good luck to you, FP.

    smn
     
  11. [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > On 6 Feb 2004 06:09:20 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > >I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    > > >very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    > > >(2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > > >(2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into
    > > > that direction.
    > >
    > > .............
    > >
    > > First of all, nobody refused to look in any direction. What I, for instance, said is that there
    > > are no controlled scientific studies supporting your contention.
    >
    > The "controlled" studies in the English speaking world only!!!! But you have not wandered into
    > other worlds yet! The herb extract formulae the doctor in China is using on me is named
    > (ZHUSHEYONG XUESAITONG). For your information, the English speaking world is just *one* of the
    > many worlds in the whole globe!!!
    >
    > FP

    Your point should be well taken, Francis.

    God did make it all. He is that great :)

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    --
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L21532147
     
  12. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 6 Feb 2004 06:09:20 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:
    >
    >
    > >I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see a
    > >very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide, and
    > >(2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > >(2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into that
    > > direction.
    >
    > .............
    >
    > First of all, nobody refused to look in any direction. What I, for instance, said is that there
    > are no controlled scientific studies supporting your contention.

    Please take a look at this:

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hydrochloride+thiazide+tinnitus&sp=1&ei=UTF-
    8&cop=mss&fr=fp-tab-web-t

    I am not suggesting that hydrochloridethiazide caused my T but when i was on it during that period
    life was like living inside a studio of noises. Now, the noice is on only one side predominantly.
    Also, i was unable to nap without repercussions of more rings. Now, i could afford to ring. I have
    just given you this controlled study. So there has to be at least a _correlational_ relationship. It
    may not be _casual_.

    FP
    =====================================

    That doesn't mean your contention is
    > incorrect or invalid. All it means is that at this point it has not been supportable
    > scientifically. Maybe tomorrow a study supporting it will be done.
    >
    > Secondly, there *are* no experts in "alt" - there's just a bunch of folks with their own
    > backgrounds, their own biases, and their own brains trying to give it their best shot. My
    > goodness, you are a harsh judge of folk just trying to help you.
    >
    > smn
     
  13. On 6 Feb 2004 23:40:36 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:

    >Please take a look at this:
    >
    >http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hydrochloride+thiazide+tinnitus&sp=1&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&fr=fp-
    >tab-web-t
    >
    >I am not suggesting that hydrochloridethiazide caused my T but when i was on it during that period
    >life was like living inside a studio of noises. Now, the noice is on only one side predominantly.
    >Also, i was unable to nap without repercussions of more rings. Now, i could afford to ring. I have
    >just given you this controlled study. So there has to be at least a _correlational_ relationship.
    >It may not be _casual_.
    >
    >FP

    ..................

    I am pleased that you are apparently finding the silence you have been seeking.

    All the best -

    smn
     
  14. Tonyjeffs

    Tonyjeffs Guest

    [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...

    > >
    > > First of all, nobody refused to look in any direction. What I, for instance, said is that there
    > > are no controlled scientific studies supporting your contention.
    >

    There are no controlled studies supporting ANY tinnitus treatment. It is therefore a TRICK to use
    the argument against treatments you don't like.

    Tony
     
  15. francispoon wrote:
    >
    > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > francispoon wrote:
    > >
    > > > [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote in message
    > > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > [email protected] (francispoon) wrote in message
    > > > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > > ALL my doctors in China, including the tradtional herbalists, have held onto the view that
    > > > > > my kind of tinnitus comes from poor blood circulation in the brain. Against this
    > > > > > background, they have gone ahead to have do the following for me:
    > > > > > (1)Examine the use of diurectics and see how it is related to oxygen supply to the brain
    > > > > > vs. other forms of high blood pressure medication such as calcium channel blocker. My
    > > > > > tinnitus came to me a few months ago when i was changing my blood pressure medicine
    > > > > > regimen from calcium channel blocker to a combination which includes diurects and ACE
    > > > > > inhibitor. I was off diurectis and back to calcium channel blocker last Wednesday. As
    > > > > > of today, the ringing is 80-90% gone! I cross my fingers that it will keep up.
    > > > > > Diurectics thickens the blood, and does not dilate vessels the way calcium channel
    > > > > > blocker does, according to my ENT doctor. Well, he is the expert.
    > > > > > (2)Give me needle injection of solutions that enhances blood circulation.
    > > > > > (3)Do CT examination and try to find out if there is any abnormal bone growth in the neck
    > > > > > that might have hindered blood supply to the head.
    > > > > > (4)Examine the secretion of saliva and see if the kidney is functioning properly.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > All of the above is meant to improve the problem of poor blood circulation that they
    > > > > > believe is what has produced my tinnitus.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > On the other hand, the views expressed so far in ALT. are hardly related to blood
    > > > > > circulation as *one of the possible causes* of tinnitus. Some of the participant doctors
    > > > > > have even refused to look into that direction. And some even suggest that
    > > > > > hydrochloridthiazide is used to treat tinniuts patients.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Why is there such a big difference in views? Were they trained differently? By the way, I
    > > > > > have noticed anyone, except Ring Ear, who has mentioned the cause of his tinnitus.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > FP
    > > > >
    > > > > In the past there's been a lot of vested interested involved which has shaped the western
    > > > > bias. And the ease with which people can carry out dramatic *looking* research with PET and
    > > > > MRI scanners means that they invariably seek out and find explanations giving a
    > > > > neuroscientific cause for everything.
    > > > >
    > > > > Blood flow is simply unfashionable and not complicated enough for the west.
    > > > >
    > > > > I have one of the neuroscience explanations on my website, but personally I think blood flow
    > > > > is most likely.
    > > >
    > > > I have been a T sufferer for the past 5 months. There have been 2 events by which i could see
    > > > a very clear cause-and-effect relationship that works:(1)cessation of hydrochloridethiazide,
    > > > and (2)intravenous injection of herb extract which is used to clean blood vessels. And
    > > > (2)is meant to enhance blood flow in the head. The experts in alt even *refuse* to look into
    > > > that direction.
    > > >
    > > > FP
    > > >
    > >
    > > Medicine is an art.
    >
    > The first time I hear this from a ph.d. It was your 'suspicion' that gave me the courage to do
    > away with hydrochloridethiazide about 10 days ago. That day when it was taken out, the noise was
    > reduced by 70%.

    Glad to hear that :)

    > HCDZ did not cause my T but exacerbate it, making some 'stedio sound' effect in my head, which was
    > quite horrible.
    >
    > Once again, praise the Lord and you are the servant of the Lord.
    >
    > FP

    Yes, all praises go to God, Frances.

    Humbly,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-certified Cardiologist
    http:/www.heartmdphd.com/
     
  16. On 7 Feb 2004 01:04:09 -0800, [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote:

    >There are no controlled studies supporting ANY tinnitus treatment.

    ...............

    That statement is untrue.

    ..................

    >It is therefore a TRICK to use the argument against treatments you don't like.

    ....................

    And *that* statement is judgmental. No surprise, given the source.

    I am pleased that you are doing better, FP, and I wish you well.

    smn
     
  17. Tonyjeffs

    Tonyjeffs Guest

    Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 7 Feb 2004 01:04:09 -0800, [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote:
    >
    >
    > >There are no controlled studies supporting ANY tinnitus treatment.
    >
    > ...............
    >
    > That statement is untrue.
    >
    > ..................
    >

    Dissent without any attempt at justification! That's also a TRICK to create the illusion you know
    more than you do.

    Sooo........ "There are no controlled studies supporting ANY tinnitus treatment."

    Tony
     
  18. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >On 7 Feb 2004 01:04:09 -0800, [email protected] (TonyJeffs) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>There are no controlled studies supporting ANY tinnitus treatment.
    >
    >...............
    >
    >That statement is untrue.

    I was curious to see how many controlled studies there are that found support for a tinnitus
    treatment. Searching Pubmed, I found dozens within the past ten years. Some are small, short-term
    studies (such as one on sulpiride); some are pretty familiar to most here already (TRT, xanax,
    cognitive behavioral therapy of various types). The old Xanax study was one of the first controlled
    studies that found reduction in the tinnitus loudness, as opposed to awareness of the tinnitus,
    tinnitus distress, etc. A recent study of amitripyline is another example: http://tinyurl.com/3angx

    Interestingly, there may be one or two regarding blood flow treatments. The abstract of the
    following seems to imply that the tinnitus score improved, but you'd need access to the full text to
    know: http://tinyurl.com/39zsq
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  19. Francispoon

    Francispoon Guest

    Stephen Nagler <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 6 Feb 2004 23:40:36 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Please take a look at this:
    > >
    > >http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=hydrochloride+thiazide+tinnitus&sp=1&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&fr=fp-
    > >tab-web-t
    > >
    > >I am not suggesting that hydrochloridethiazide caused my T but when i was on it during that
    > >period life was like living inside a studio of noises. Now, the noice is on only one side
    > >predominantly. Also, i was unable to nap without repercussions of more rings. Now, i could afford
    > >to ring. I have just given you this controlled study. So there has to be at least a
    > >_correlational_ relationship. It may not be _casual_.
    > >
    > >FP
    >
    > ..................
    >
    > I am pleased that you are apparently finding the silence you have been seeking.

    I am urging *you* to try it regardless of the fact that your T is much longer than mine. After all,
    all it will cost is a small hole on your hand and one on your purse. Even if you did not have T, an
    intravenous injection of good medical solution meant to clean up or smooth out your blood vessels is
    a good thing to do. But if in the process you get a tangible feeling of a casual relationship
    between blood circulation and tinnitus, it would be a big bonus. Perhaps you and i were destined to
    meet each other through the net so that you could have your T 'improved/better treated/cured' by
    going to do some intravenous injection. Do it!

    FP
    >
    > All the best -
    >
    > smn
     
  20. On 8 Feb 2004 02:21:49 -0800, [email protected] (francispoon) wrote:

    >I am urging *you* to try it regardless of the fact that your T is much longer than mine. After all,
    >all it will cost is a small hole on your hand and one on your purse. Even if you did not have T, an
    >intravenous injection of good medical solution meant to clean up or smooth out your blood vessels
    >is a good thing to do. But if in the process you get a tangible feeling of a casual relationship
    >between blood circulation and tinnitus, it would be a big bonus. Perhaps you and i were destined to
    >meet each other through the net so that you could have your T 'improved/better treated/cured' by
    >going to do some intravenous injection. Do it!

    ..............

    Thanks much.

    Good luck to you for continued success with your treatment.

    smn
     
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