Why can't american cities ban cars?

[!Jones]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 04:06:10 -0000, in rec.bicycles.tech Chalo
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I know that Dutch bikes can be bought in the 70cm frame size with
>relative ease, when that would be strictly a custom-built frame in the
>USA.

I didn't look real hard. Since I was renting for the afternoon, I
just took what they had on hand... one size fits all, you know how it
goes.

I have developed a liking for the Euro chain guards on commuter
setups.

Jones

 

[Peter Cole]

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Chalo:
>> According to the data at the following link, 3.6% of
>> Dutch men are 6'5" or taller, compared to 0.2% of US men:
>
> Only chair that I've ever really fit in and been comfortable in
> was at my brother-in-laws in Germany - and he had bought the
> kitchen set it was part of from Holland. The thing must've been
> five inches higher and two inches wider than anything similar
> I've ever sat in.

I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.

I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
far enough for me.

 

[Peter Cole]

Greens wrote:
>
> I think cars and the open road are the epitome of what we call "freedom" in
> the USA. Being able to vote is no big thrill.

> Being able to pilot a
> muscle car at any speed* we want down any of the 6 gazillion miles of
> blacktop in the USA - that is FREEDOM.

Key to that is "open road", which is getting rare (except car commercials).

"FREEDOM" in an urban area is a bike.

I've toured the countryside by bike and car -- the bike felt "freer".
The only place cars are better is the highway, but highway driving is
incredibly boring if not outright soul-sucking.

I don't think anybody over 18 even enjoys driving a car any more.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Peter Cole:
>I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
>fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
>
>I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
>far enough for me.

Have you ever thought about raising all the cabinetry in your
house - or at least the sinks and kitchen workspaces?

I've been mulling it over for awhile.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Andrew Price]

On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:41:01 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

[Greece]

>If I could take two bikes, I'd probably opt for my CX bike with slicks
>(it's light enough to be a credible road race bike in a pinch) and a set
>of knobbies tucked away, and I'd build up the most serious 4-6 inch FS
>lightweight trailbike I could lay my hands on, with an eye to tackling
>the vast numbers of goat trails. If I could lay out some good trail
>routes, I think there's a small living to be made as an MTB expedition
>organizer on Syros.

Many thanks for that extremely interesting post. And best of luck if
you do decide to move to Greece permanently.

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 25, 8:01 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Per Peter Cole:
>
> >I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
> >fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
>
> >I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
> >far enough for me.
>
> Have you ever thought about raising all the cabinetry in your
> house - or at least the sinks and kitchen workspaces?
>
> I've been mulling it over for awhile.
> --
> PeteCresswell

I did that and I'm only 6'3".

My wife is normal sized and couldn't reach the top cabinets without a
step stool anyway, and higher counters are just fine for her too so me
not bumping my head nor stooping has not been a sacrifice for anyone.
I wouldn't bother with a retofit, this was part of a renovation. If I
were taller I might consider a retrofit however.

Joseph

 

[[email protected]]

> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:41:01 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote in part:

>4-6 inch FS
>lightweight trailbike

Does not compute.

 

[Peter Cole]

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Peter Cole:
>> I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
>> fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
>>
>> I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
>> far enough for me.
>
> Have you ever thought about raising all the cabinetry in your
> house - or at least the sinks and kitchen workspaces?
>
> I've been mulling it over for awhile.

I've thought about it, but I doubt I'll do it, I cook a lot, but I'm the
only abnormally sized individual in the house. The thing I'd really like
is taller doorways, but I'm so used to ducking now that I'd probably
continue anyway. It's kind of like long cranks, I may really like them,
but it's a costly experiment.

 

[Chalo]

Peter Cole wrote:
>
> PeteCresswell wrote:
> >
> > Per Chalo:
> >>
> >> According to the data at the following link, 3.6% of
> >> Dutch men are 6'5" or taller, compared to 0.2% of US men:
>
> > Only chair that I've ever really fit in and been comfortable in
> > was at my brother-in-laws in Germany - and he had bought the
> > kitchen set it was part of from Holland. The thing must've been
> > five inches higher and two inches wider than anything similar
> > I've ever sat in.
>
> I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
> fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
>
> I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
> far enough for me.

The page does point out that 3 out of every 10,000 Dutch men are 6'10"
or taller.

Chalo

 

[Lou Holtman]

Chalo wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
>> PeteCresswell wrote:
>>> Per Chalo:
>>>> According to the data at the following link, 3.6% of
>>>> Dutch men are 6'5" or taller, compared to 0.2% of US men:
>>> Only chair that I've ever really fit in and been comfortable in
>>> was at my brother-in-laws in Germany - and he had bought the
>>> kitchen set it was part of from Holland. The thing must've been
>>> five inches higher and two inches wider than anything similar
>>> I've ever sat in.
>> I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
>> fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
>>
>> I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
>> far enough for me.
>
> The page does point out that 3 out of every 10,000 Dutch men are 6'10"
> or taller.
>
> Chalo
>


We, the Dutch, are one of the tallest people in the world and we are
still growing, but the (bicycle) industry didn't keep up with that
growth. Tall people have hard time getting suitable products over here.
Recently they raised the norm for the height of the ceilings for new
houses...

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

 

[vey]

Peter Cole wrote:

>
> I don't think anybody over 18 even enjoys driving a car any more.

There are people that say they do. I've never understood that. I've
driven all sorts of things, big and small and it's always been the
utility and convenience not enjoyment, that attracted me.

On my bike, I can zip up to city hall, pay my utility bill, and be back
before most people can find a parking space there. I can drive part of
the way to a bigger city's downtown, park for free and pedal the last
mile to the offices and stores and avoid getting a parking ticket
because I didn't get back to the meter in time to feed it. They are
charging $35 for an overtime parking meter now?! That's robbery!

These are my practical ways of dealing with too many cars.

 

[vey]

!Jones wrote:

> I have developed a liking for the Euro chain guards on commuter
> setups.

'Cause they work. I guess if we want something like that, we have to
fiddle around hack fabricating it ourselves. There is no US manufacturer
making anything much like it.

Clever cycles (formerly clever chimp) has started carrying Dutch bicycles.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:41:01 GMT, Ryan Cousineau wrote in part:
>
> >4-6 inch FS
> >lightweight trailbike
>
> Does not compute.

A "Full Suspension" (suspension at front and rear) mountain bike with
somewhere between 4 and 6 inches of travel at each end, which is more
than pure cross-country racing mountain bikes have, but less than
dedicated "freeride" bikes for tackling big jumps and drops: those bikes
start with 6-8 inches of travel, and the upper limits of travel and
burliness are pretty insane. They're like unmotorized motocross
motorcycles.

The lightweight part suggests a bike aimed at about 30 pounds (If I had
a bunch of money). Air fork, lighter frame (rather than starting with a
"big hit" type frame), and cross-country style parts rather than
freeride parts. XT group instead of Saint, to make the obvious
distinction. "Trailbike" more or less means a bicycle that isn't
dedicated to racing (not light enough) or jumps and drops (not strong
enough), but compromises to maximize fun.

Such a mountain bike would be capable of rolling over almost anything,
and would do it cheerfully. It wouldn't be as fast as a pure race MTB,
but it would be easier to ride on very technical terrain. I couldn't
safely drop big stunts or catch much air, but it would be nicer to
pedal, especially uphill.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

 

[!Jones]

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 19:22:50 -0400, in rec.bicycles.tech vey
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I have developed a liking for the Euro chain guards on commuter
>> setups.
>
>'Cause they work. I guess if we want something like that, we have to
>fiddle around hack fabricating it ourselves. There is no US manufacturer
>making anything much like it.

Yeah, they work in that area for which they were designed. It isn't
that we can't *make* something like that, it's that one wouldn't be
able to sell the product into the US market... and that's a shame,
IMHO. US bicycles are seen as "sporting goods", not as a viable means
of transportation. This is why we have a Secretary of Transportation
making absurd statements on PBS,

Now, *that* ought to be worth a few flame wars. Have fun. I'm going
to bed. Nighty-night!!!

Jones

 

[Michael Press]

In article
<[email protected]>,
"(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Per Peter Cole:
> >I'm 6'10" and of Dutch ancestry. I built a sectional sofa last year that
> >fits me -- everyone else's feet dangle.
> >
> >I liked the stats Chalo posted, but like everything else, they didn't go
> >far enough for me.
>
> Have you ever thought about raising all the cabinetry in your
> house - or at least the sinks and kitchen workspaces?
>
> I've been mulling it over for awhile.

****! I am 5' 8" (1.73 m) and every damn thing in the
house is too low for me. I feel for you.

Kitchen utensils grips are way too short,
unless you buy from professional outfitters.

--
Michael Press

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Michael Press:
>****! I am 5' 8" (1.73 m) and every damn thing in the
>house is too low for me. I feel for you.
>
>Kitchen utensils grips are way too short,
>unless you buy from professional outfitters.

Way back in the fifties - before it was cool for women to be tall
- the newspapers carried a story about a young woman from
somewhere in the USA who was 6'3" tall and went to Sweden to have
her limbs shortened.

I always wondered how her life came out.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Harry Perton]

On 25 sep, 01:33, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:54:38 -0000, in rec.bicycles.tech Chalo
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >The car-free center ofGroningenin the Netherlands is probably the
> >best example of the benefits of restricting car traffic.
>
> So, do you know that town? I took an opportunity to teach at
> RijksuniversiteitGroningen(University ofGroningen) for a semester
> in '99 and we had the time of our lives... I took the wife, of course.
> She asked if I was planning on taking her as I was doing the paperwork
> and I said: "Would you take a cow to a dairy?" or something to that
> effect... not great judgement on my part!!! (I had to put the toilet
> seat down for a whole *month* in penance.) Financially, it wasn't
> real plush; however, we had a dorm room... beautiful town, that. We'd
> rent a tandem on the weekends and my back *still* hurts from the damn
> low frames (I'm 6' 5").
>
> Back then, you were allowed to drive; however, parking cost about
> $1.50 a minute at the meters and the tow trucks were there within 90
> seconds if it expired. A car was considered a luxury beyond the means
> of most citizens... seems like on-campus parking was $700 a month or
> so. Whatever it was, we didn't consider it.

Slightly exaggerated:
http://www.groningen.nl/assets/pdf/parkeer tarieven2007.pdf
>>>
Someone who is settled in Groningen pays 1,70 euro per hour for
parking his or her car on the street in the innercity.

--------------------------------------
http://gelkinghe.web-log.nl

 

[Harry Perton]

On 25 sep, 06:06, Chalo <[email protected]> wrote:
> !Jones wrote:
>
> > I took an opportunity to teach at
> > RijksuniversiteitGroningen(University ofGroningen) for a semester
> > in '99 and we had the time of our lives... I took the wife, of course.
> <snip>
> > ... beautiful town, that. We'd
> > rent a tandem on the weekends and my back *still* hurts from the damn
> > low frames (I'm 6' 5").
>
> Funny that there weren't taller bike options available, since 6'5"
> isn't unusually tall in Friesland (or, I'd expect, in neighboringGroningen.) According to the data at the following link, 3.6% of
> Dutch men are 6'5" or taller, compared to 0.2% of US men:
>
> http://www.tallpages.com/uk/index.php?pag=ukstatist.php
>
> I know that Dutch bikes can be bought in the 70cm frame size with
> relative ease, when that would be strictly a custom-built frame in the
> USA.

The man was talking about a tandem, not an ordinary bicycle

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
Harry Perton <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 25 sep, 01:33, !Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 09:54:38 -0000, in rec.bicycles.tech Chalo
> >
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >The car-free center ofGroningenin the Netherlands is probably the
> > >best example of the benefits of restricting car traffic.
> >
> > So, do you know that town? I took an opportunity to teach at
> > RijksuniversiteitGroningen(University ofGroningen) for a semester
> > in '99 and we had the time of our lives... I took the wife, of course.
> > She asked if I was planning on taking her as I was doing the paperwork
> > and I said: "Would you take a cow to a dairy?" or something to that
> > effect... not great judgement on my part!!! (I had to put the toilet
> > seat down for a whole *month* in penance.) Financially, it wasn't
> > real plush; however, we had a dorm room... beautiful town, that. We'd
> > rent a tandem on the weekends and my back *still* hurts from the damn
> > low frames (I'm 6' 5").
> >
> > Back then, you were allowed to drive; however, parking cost about
> > $1.50 a minute at the meters and the tow trucks were there within 90
> > seconds if it expired. A car was considered a luxury beyond the means
> > of most citizens... seems like on-campus parking was $700 a month or
> > so. Whatever it was, we didn't consider it.
>
> Slightly exaggerated:
> http://www.groningen.nl/assets/pdf/parkeer tarieven2007.pdf
> >>>
> Someone who is settled in Groningen pays 1,70 euro per hour for
> parking his or her car on the street in the innercity.

Slightly exaggerated? E1.70/hour is less than half the going rate for
street parking in the most expensive parts of Vancouver. I'm sure we're
not the most pricey, either.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

 

[still me]

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 05:25:38 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Slightly exaggerated? E1.70/hour is less than half the going rate for
>street parking in the most expensive parts of Vancouver. I'm sure we're
>not the most pricey, either.

Major US cities are higher