Why Can't Mountain Bikers EVER Tell the TRUTH???!




> .
> .Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
> .
> .(I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
> .construction.)
> .
> .
> .I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood of

5
> .years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire

time.
> .You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I

have
> .been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not fought
> .these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you lost.

You
> .may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the

statement
> .is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
> .
> .Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.
>
> Learn how to read English. The 8 years are previous to my current wildlife
> activism. DUH!!!!! I has been true since I first said it. You liars

wouldn't
> know the truth if it hit you in the face. You have had about 9 years to

learn to
> read, and STILL can't!


For a PhD, you are one stupid son of a *****! You should learn how to write.
Your words say that you have, "spent the previous 8 years ..." doing
something. Your words have been that way for at least 5 years, therefore you
have not spent the last 8 of them doing whatever it is that you claim, if
you were still doing whatever it is that you claim, then your sig line
should read, "... spent the previous 13 years ..." doing whatever it is that
you claim, and you should update it from time to time.

You might have spent 8 years prior doing whatever it is that you claim to
have done, but that is PAST TENSE, you are writing in PRESENT TENSE because
you use the word, previous, which implies that you are using now as the
frame of reference. You are writing as if you have done it for the past 8
years from now, not that you did it for 8 years at some point in the past.

To continue to say that you have been doing it for the past 8 years from now
is just a lie. Nothing more, nothing less. Not only are you a liar, you are
a stupid liar - bordering on very stupid. To be truthful, you should say, "I
have spent 8 years ..." This construction does not imply the start time, and
leaves open the idea that it could have been any 8 years, not just the
previous 8 years. Do you see where your own words say something that you do
not mean to have said?

Idiot.
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 19:32:15 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>

wrote:
>
> .
> ."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .>
> .> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> news:[email protected]...
> .> > On Thu, 20 May 2004 10:52:42 -0500, "Jason" <[email protected]> wrote:
> .> >
> .> > .
> .> > .> ===
> .> > .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> > .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> > .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .> > .>
> .> > .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .> > .
> .> > .LIAR
> .> >
> .> > Where's the lie?
> .>
> .> Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
> .>
> .> (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
> .> construction.)
> .>
> .>
> .> I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood

of 5
> .> years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire

time.
> .> You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I
> .have
> .> been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not

fought
> .> these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you

lost.
> .You
> .> may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the

statement
> .> is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
> .>
> .> Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.
> .>
> .>
> .
> .I did a simple Google search on your idiocy, and found that you have been
> .using the sig line since at least 1998.
>
> So you are smart enough to use Google, but not smart enough to learn to

read.
> That statement was true when I first said it, and is STILL true. Idiot.
>


It is not true, and has not been true for many years. Idiot. The reason it
is not true is because you wrote it in the present tense, but you are using
it in the past tense. It is you that is lacking the ability to read. And
write.
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:33 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
..> .>
..> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
..> .
..> .Liar
..>
..> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
..found the
..> regulations on mountain biking.
..
..No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
..National Parks.

You didn't read carefully. Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt roads,
in some cases shared with SUVs. I think there is only ONE possible singletrack
mountain biking trail in all of the National Park System.

..So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
..mountain biking" is a lie?

No, in general, it is a fact.

..Pete
..
..>
..> .google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:
..> .
..> .Haleakala National Park
..> .Joshua Tree National Park
..> .Zion National Park
..> .Great Smoky Mountains National Park
..> .Arches National Park
..> .
..> .All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are
..others.
..> .One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are
..prohibited
..> .on park trails, with four exceptions."
..> .http://www.cs.utk.edu/~dunigan/mtnbike/rich.html
..> .
..> .Pete
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:34:08 +0100, "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:36:28 +0100, "Tetsuo Shima"
..<[email protected]>
..> wrote:
..>
..> .Hey Mike. You obviously don't have a bike or a car, so how do you get
..> .about?
..>
..> walk, bike, or public transit.
..
..Hmm, bike, funny that. Oh and at a guess, one bus would cause far greater
..enviromental damage than a million bikes would. (How many busses, diesel
..trains, ships and planes are there?) And you're worried about a few knobbly
..tires.

Yes. Several MILLION knobby tires ripping up our parks every week. And NO buses,
diesel trains, ships, or planes on those trails.

..P.S. Cycling on undesignated pavements is illegal. ;)
..
..'nuff said.
..
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 14:53:43 -0400, S Curtiss <[email protected]> wrote:

..
..
..Mike Vandeman wrote:
..
..> On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:15:36 -0400, S Curtiss <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .>
..> .
..> ."clipped for protection of the innocent"
..> .
..> .>
..> .> .> Sorry you've had some tough experiences with mountain bikers. Do you think
..> .> .> there is any place appropriate for mountain biking?
..> .> .>
..> .> .> Of course: on paved roads.
..> .> .
..> .> .Then it isn't mountain biking, it is road biking.
..> .>
..> .> I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where you belong.
..> .>
..> .
..> .Where "I" belong? Actually, I call it "off road cycling". And I "belong" on legal trail
..> .systems, national parks and any area recognized for off road cycling.
..>
..> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
..
..A search of the National Park Service website for "biking" returned 139 matches.

And almost NONE of that refers to legal mountain (trail) biking.

..> Where you think I
..> .belong is irrelevant. Which of these doesn't belong? Mountains, Trees, Animals, Wal-Mart.
..> .
..> .>
..> .> .> That's nonsense. One look at my web site would tell you otherwise. Why do
..> .> .> mountain bikers have such a hard time telling the truth???
..> .> .
..> .> .Really? If not half, then a third is devoted to anti-mt mike propoganda...
..> .> .certainly seems extraordinary in comparison...
..> .>
..> .> ZERO propaganda. Just the truth.
..
..Your truth as you interpret it. Lots of opinion. Propoganda.

BS. Of course, you wouldn't know, being unfamiliar with truth-telling.

..> .Selective "scientific" information to support opinions is propoganda. Presenting opinion
..> .as fact is propoganda. Proclaiming yourself as an authority in an attempt to make your
..> .opinions sound important is propoganda. Claiming absolute "truth" is propoganda.
..>
..> I've never claimed "absolute truth", liar.
..
..Then why is it anyone who disagrees with you is subject to name-calling and ridicule.
.."Absolute" means an unwillingness to listen to, or compromise, with differing ideas. You
..present your opinion as an absolute.

BS. Why compromise, if I am right?

..> .> .> WHAT hostility? I am just telling the truth -- something I guess you aren't used
..> .> .> to. You interpret that as hostility.
..> .> .
..> .> .No... calling people liars, idiots, stupid, killers.... that is hostility.
..> .>
..> .> No, it's just honesty.
..
..Your opinion of someone else's intelligenge or integrity does not imply honesty in any way,
..shape or form.

You are dishonest. That's a FACT.

..> .You may honestly disagree with information or points of view. But calling someone "liar"
..> .and "idiot" is hostile.
..>
..> No, it's just the truth.
..
..but when you get an e-mail from someone, calling you the same names, you post it here as being
..from "another hostile mt biker". So it is hostile when directed at you, and not when you
..direct it at someone else. Mr. "Double Standard" MV strikes again.

It's not the same at all.

..> Simply having different opinions or information from you does not
..> .make someone a liar.
..>
..> Of course. LYING makes you a liar.
..
..No mirrors at home, huh?
..
..>
..>
..> Stating the differing information or point of view does not make
..> .someone an "idiot". Calling them "stupid" for not agreeing with you is not honesty. It is
..> .antagonism.
..>
..> No, it's truth.
..
..again... Your version. Which is so tainted by your opinion it resembles "truth" like a
..Wal-Mart resembles a rain forest.

How would you know?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:53:51 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
..> .
..> .Here is a lie, and a direct quote.
..> .
..> .(I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
..> .construction.)
..> .
..> .
..> .I have been visiting ca.environment for something in the neighborhood of
..5
..> .years, and you have been making the same irrelevent claim the entire
..time.
..> .You could not have spent the past 8 years doing these things, because I
..have
..> .been coming here for the majority of those years, and you have not fought
..> .these issues more than once that I can remember, and that time you lost.
..You
..> .may have fought these issues, but not for 8 years, therefore the
..statement
..> .is a lie, according to your own definition of what a lie is.
..> .
..> .Not only are you a liar, you are an idiot.
..>
..> Learn how to read English. The 8 years are previous to my current wildlife
..> activism. DUH!!!!! I has been true since I first said it. You liars
..wouldn't
..> know the truth if it hit you in the face. You have had about 9 years to
..learn to
..> read, and STILL can't!
..
..For a PhD, you are one stupid son of a *****! You should learn how to write.
..Your words say that you have, "spent the previous 8 years ..." doing
..something. Your words have been that way for at least 5 years, therefore you
..have not spent the last 8 of them doing whatever it is that you claim, if
..you were still doing whatever it is that you claim, then your sig line
..should read, "... spent the previous 13 years ..." doing whatever it is that
..you claim, and you should update it from time to time.

Look, dumdum, "previous" refers to "previous to my current activity", which is
wildlife activism. But thanks for displaying your utter ignorance, once again,
to the entire world.

..You might have spent 8 years prior doing whatever it is that you claim to
..have done, but that is PAST TENSE, you are writing in PRESENT TENSE because
..you use the word, previous, which implies that you are using now as the
..frame of reference. You are writing as if you have done it for the past 8
..years from now, not that you did it for 8 years at some point in the past.
..
..To continue to say that you have been doing it for the past 8 years from now
..is just a lie.

But I didn't say that. I said the "previous" 8 years. DUH!

Nothing more, nothing less. Not only are you a liar, you are
..a stupid liar - bordering on very stupid. To be truthful, you should say, "I
..have spent 8 years ..." This construction does not imply the start time, and
..leaves open the idea that it could have been any 8 years, not just the
..previous 8 years. Do you see where your own words say something that you do
..not mean to have said?
..
..Idiot.
..
..
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> .So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
> .mountain biking" is a lie?
>
> No, in general, it is a fact.


Now THAT'S an oxymoron!

Pete
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:33 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]...
> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
> .>
> .> .
> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
> .> .>
> .> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
> .> .
> .> .Liar
> .>
> .> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
> .found the
> .> regulations on mountain biking.
> .
> .No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
> .National Parks.
>
> You didn't read carefully. Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
> roads,in some cases shared with SUVs. I think there is only ONE possible
> singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park System.



Yah know Doc, he might have you on this one. Really, it is a lie when
you know the truth but insist that the opposite is true. We covered
the "National Parks are closed to Mountain Biking," pretty well in
2000,2001,2002 and 2003. As it has been pointed out to you there are
at least 3 NPS units in California alone, that have "single track."
Then of course there is "the one dedicated single track" in Arizona,
and another unit in New Mexico (open on a limited basis).

Pete F had this snip addressed to you back in 2001
"Visitor Centers offer a free map (494K PDF) of the park's trails,
indicating which trails are designated for bike travel. Point Reyes
permits biking only outside of wilderness areas along emergency
access/dirt fire roads, paved roads and a few single-track trails."

In ~2000 Gt pointed out that REDW had several trails

In 2003, I pointed out that JOTR and SAGU both have trails open to
Mountain biking.

> .So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
> .mountain biking" is a lie?
>
> No, in general, it is a fact.


You poor, poor, little man ... You know you are wrong and you still
try to wiggle out of it. You said "National parks are closed to
mountain biking." You know this isn't the truth, so you try redirect
the argument by saying, "Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
roads,in some cases shared with SUVs." It is as if you are try to say
that it isn't mountian biking unless it is on single track. And
finally you try to redirect the argument by saying "I think there is
only ONE possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the
National Park System," which you also know is not true, since it has
been pointed out to repeatedly that there are several parks that allow
mountain biking on trails.


> .
> .>
> .> .google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:
> .> .
> .> .Haleakala National Park
> .> .Joshua Tree National Park
> .> .Zion National Park
> .> .Great Smoky Mountains National Park
> .> .Arches National Park
> .> .
> .> .All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are
> .others.
> .> .One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are
> .prohibited
> .> .on park trails, with four exceptions."


Just as a side note ... Great Smoky Mountains National Park is GRSM
not GSM.

R
 

> .For a PhD, you are one stupid son of a *****! You should learn how to

write.
> .Your words say that you have, "spent the previous 8 years ..." doing
> .something. Your words have been that way for at least 5 years, therefore

you
> .have not spent the last 8 of them doing whatever it is that you claim, if
> .you were still doing whatever it is that you claim, then your sig line
> .should read, "... spent the previous 13 years ..." doing whatever it is

that
> .you claim, and you should update it from time to time.
>
> Look, dumdum, "previous" refers to "previous to my current activity",

which is
> wildlife activism. But thanks for displaying your utter ignorance, once

again,
> to the entire world.
>

Are you really that stupid, or do you pretend to be that stupid?

I know what you meant to say, but apparently you do not know what you said,
even after it is explained to you.



> .You might have spent 8 years prior doing whatever it is that you claim to
> .have done, but that is PAST TENSE, you are writing in PRESENT TENSE

because
> .you use the word, previous, which implies that you are using now as the
> .frame of reference. You are writing as if you have done it for the past 8
> .years from now, not that you did it for 8 years at some point in the

past.
> .
> .To continue to say that you have been doing it for the past 8 years from

now
> .is just a lie.
>
> But I didn't say that. I said the "previous" 8 years. DUH!
>


Idiot, that is exatly what you said, although it is apparently not what you
wanted to say. When you use "previous" the way you used it, it implies that
the time frame is contiguous to the present time frame, and clearly it is
not or the previous period would become larger as time progressed. I can't
believe it needs to be explained to you.

I have attempted to help you construct a sentence that actually says what
you want your audience to understand, but you are just too ****ing stupid to
recognize it.
 
<snip>

One last thing to say on the topic........ Let the government decide if
your cause is just.

EOD.
 
"Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where

you
> > > belong.
> > >
> > > Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
> > >
> > > Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are

mountain
> > > bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
> > >
> > >

> >
> > Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
> > around................
> >
> > He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the

> likes
> > of you.
> >
> > Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway

too.
> >
> > Marty
> >
> >
> >

> Troll?
>
>


Yeah. That's it.

I don't have the time or the inclination. I just can't imagine why some
people continue to tilt at this (MV) windmill. It's just amazing to me.
 
"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where

> you
> > > > belong.
> > > >
> > > > Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
> > > >
> > > > Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are

> mountain
> > > > bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
> > > around................
> > >
> > > He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the

> > likes
> > > of you.
> > >
> > > Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway

> too.
> > >
> > > Marty
> > >
> > >
> > >

> > Troll?
> >
> >

>
> Yeah. That's it.
>
> I don't have the time or the inclination. I just can't imagine why some
> people continue to tilt at this (MV) windmill. It's just amazing to me.
>
>

I do it for the fun of it, (trust me.) I've mingled with many trolls, most
of them genuinely good people. :)
 
On 28 May 2004 08:41:03 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
..> On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:33 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .
..> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .
..> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
..> .> .>
..> .> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
..> .> .
..> .> .Liar
..> .>
..> .> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
..> .found the
..> .> regulations on mountain biking.
..> .
..> .No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
..> .National Parks.
..>
..> You didn't read carefully. Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
..> roads,in some cases shared with SUVs. I think there is only ONE possible
..> singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park System.
..
..
..Yah know Doc, he might have you on this one. Really, it is a lie when
..you know the truth but insist that the opposite is true. We covered
..the "National Parks are closed to Mountain Biking," pretty well in
..2000,2001,2002 and 2003. As it has been pointed out to you there are
..at least 3 NPS units in California alone, that have "single track."
..Then of course there is "the one dedicated single track" in Arizona,
..and another unit in New Mexico (open on a limited basis).
..
..Pete F had this snip addressed to you back in 2001
.."Visitor Centers offer a free map (494K PDF) of the park's trails,
..indicating which trails are designated for bike travel. Point Reyes
..permits biking only outside of wilderness areas along emergency
..access/dirt fire roads, paved roads and a few single-track trails."
..
..In ~2000 Gt pointed out that REDW had several trails
..
..In 2003, I pointed out that JOTR and SAGU both have trails open to
..Mountain biking.
..
..> .So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
..> .mountain biking" is a lie?
..>
..> No, in general, it is a fact.
..
..You poor, poor, little man ... You know you are wrong and you still
..try to wiggle out of it. You said "National parks are closed to
..mountain biking."

Generally speaking, the National Parks ARE closed to mountain biking. I never
said "ALL National Parks ...", which would have been untrue. Learn to read....

You know this isn't the truth, so you try redirect
..the argument by saying, "Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
..roads,in some cases shared with SUVs." It is as if you are try to say
..that it isn't mountian biking unless it is on single track. And
..finally you try to redirect the argument by saying "I think there is
..only ONE possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the
..National Park System," which you also know is not true, since it has
..been pointed out to repeatedly that there are several parks that allow
..mountain biking on trails.

BS. You forgot that I said "I think ...", which makes it true.

..> .> .google for "national park"+"mountain bike" reveals:
..> .> .
..> .> .Haleakala National Park
..> .> .Joshua Tree National Park
..> .> .Zion National Park
..> .> .Great Smoky Mountains National Park
..> .> .Arches National Park
..> .> .
..> .> .All refer to/allow mountain biking in one form or another. There are
..> .others.
..> .> .One park, GSM, specifically and explicitly states: "Bicycles are
..> .prohibited
..> .> .on park trails, with four exceptions."
..
..Just as a side note ... Great Smoky Mountains National Park is GRSM
..not GSM.
..
..R

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 28 May 2004 14:52:23 -0400, "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..>
..> "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> news:[email protected]...
..> >
..> > "Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> > news:[email protected]...
..> > > > I don't care what you want to call it. Stay on the pavement, where
..you
..> > > belong.
..> > >
..> > > Ok, ok, we'll call them pavement bikes just for you.
..> > >
..> > > Look you tree licking animal shagging hippy, mountain bikes are
..mountain
..> > > bikes because they're, (please note hyphenation,) "OFFROAD"
..> > >
..> > >
..> >
..> > Run out to Walmart. Go to the clue section. Buy several and pass them
..> > around................
..> >
..> > He who must not be named cares not what you think and is immune to the
..> likes
..> > of you.
..> >
..> > Why bother? Of course, like a train wreck, I watch this stuff anyway
..too.
..> >
..> > Marty
..> >
..> >
..> >
..> Troll?
..>
..>
..
..Yeah. That's it.
..
..I don't have the time or the inclination. I just can't imagine why some
..people continue to tilt at this (MV) windmill. It's just amazing to me.

Yeah, mountain bikers are addictive personalities, and have no self-control
whatsoever.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Fri, 28 May 2004 11:17:37 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
..> .For a PhD, you are one stupid son of a *****! You should learn how to
..write.
..> .Your words say that you have, "spent the previous 8 years ..." doing
..> .something. Your words have been that way for at least 5 years, therefore
..you
..> .have not spent the last 8 of them doing whatever it is that you claim, if
..> .you were still doing whatever it is that you claim, then your sig line
..> .should read, "... spent the previous 13 years ..." doing whatever it is
..that
..> .you claim, and you should update it from time to time.
..>
..> Look, dumdum, "previous" refers to "previous to my current activity",
..which is
..> wildlife activism. But thanks for displaying your utter ignorance, once
..again,
..> to the entire world.
..>
..Are you really that stupid, or do you pretend to be that stupid?
..
..I know what you meant to say, but apparently you do not know what you said,
..even after it is explained to you.

Wassa matter, afraid to admit taht you are WRONG? You obviously don't know the
difference between "previous 8 years" and "last 8 years".

..> .You might have spent 8 years prior doing whatever it is that you claim to
..> .have done, but that is PAST TENSE, you are writing in PRESENT TENSE
..because
..> .you use the word, previous, which implies that you are using now as the
..> .frame of reference. You are writing as if you have done it for the past 8
..> .years from now, not that you did it for 8 years at some point in the
..past.
..> .
..> .To continue to say that you have been doing it for the past 8 years from
..now
..> .is just a lie.
..>
..> But I didn't say that. I said the "previous" 8 years. DUH!
..>
..
..Idiot, that is exatly what you said, although it is apparently not what you
..wanted to say. When you use "previous" the way you used it, it implies that
..the time frame is contiguous to the present time frame,

No, it is previous to the just-mentioned time, which is ongoing. Learn to read
English.

and clearly it is
..not or the previous period would become larger as time progressed. I can't
..believe it needs to be explained to you.
..
..I have attempted to help you construct a sentence that actually says what
..you want your audience to understand, but you are just too ****ing stupid to
..recognize it.
..
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Generally speaking, the National Parks ARE closed to mountain biking. I

never
> said "ALL National Parks ...", which would have been untrue. Learn to

read....

Taken that way, your statement "National parks are closed to mountain
biking" is meaningless
One, some, most...who knows. As usual, you have said nothing

But you know what you implied....:) And were called on it.

Pete
In general, the sky is blue.
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 28 May 2004 08:41:03 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote:
>
> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:33 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
> .>
> .> .
> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .> .news:[email protected]...
> .> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
> .> .>
> .> .> .
> .> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
> .> .> .>
> .> .> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
> .> .> .
> .> .> .Liar
> .> .>
> .> .> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
> .> .found the
> .> .> regulations on mountain biking.
> .> .
> .> .No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
> .> .National Parks.
> .>
> .> You didn't read carefully. Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
> .> roads,in some cases shared with SUVs. I think there is only ONE possible
> .> singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park System.
> .
> .
> .Yah know Doc, he might have you on this one. Really, it is a lie when
> .you know the truth but insist that the opposite is true. We covered
> .the "National Parks are closed to Mountain Biking," pretty well in
> .2000,2001,2002 and 2003. As it has been pointed out to you there are
> .at least 3 NPS units in California alone, that have "single track."
> .Then of course there is "the one dedicated single track" in Arizona,
> .and another unit in New Mexico (open on a limited basis).
> .
> .Pete F had this snip addressed to you back in 2001
> ."Visitor Centers offer a free map (494K PDF) of the park's trails,
> .indicating which trails are designated for bike travel. Point Reyes
> .permits biking only outside of wilderness areas along emergency
> .access/dirt fire roads, paved roads and a few single-track trails."
> .
> .In ~2000 Gt pointed out that REDW had several trails
> .
> .In 2003, I pointed out that JOTR and SAGU both have trails open to
> .Mountain biking.
> .
> .> .So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
> .> .mountain biking" is a lie?
> .>
> .> No, in general, it is a fact.
> .
> .You poor, poor, little man ... You know you are wrong and you still
> .try to wiggle out of it. You said "National parks are closed to
> .mountain biking."
>
> Generally speaking, the National Parks ARE closed to mountain biking.


There is no CFR prohibiting the use of mountain bikes in side of
National Parks. There are CFR's limiting the use to specific areas,
but that does not make a Park "closed" to the use of a mountain bike.

> I never
> said "ALL National Parks ...", which would have been untrue. Learn to read....


You said "National parks are closed to mountain biking." That
statement has no modifier. It is an inclusive statement.

> You know this isn't the truth, so you try redirect
> .the argument by saying, "Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
> .roads,in some cases shared with SUVs." It is as if you are try to say
> .that it isn't mountian biking unless it is on single track. And
> .finally you try to redirect the argument by saying "I think there is
> .only ONE possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the
> .National Park System," which you also know is not true, since it has
> .been pointed out to repeatedly that there are several parks that allow
> .mountain biking on trails.
>
> BS. You forgot that I said "I think ...", which makes it true.


It does not make the statement true. Just because you believe it to be
true does not preclude the possibility that you were wrong. Are you so
afraid of being wrong doc?

What makes it a lie is not the fact that you "think" it to be the case
when it is not. What makes it a lie is that the number of trails that
are open to Mountain biking in the National Park system has been
repeatedly pointed out to you, you have even responded to the postings
by GT, Pete F, and others, and yet you say "I think there is only ONE
possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park
System." You are either a liar, or you have a terrible memory.

<snip>

R
 
Marty, if he IS a troll, he's a clueless wannabe. I think he's trying to be
serious. ;)
 
On 28 May 2004 23:04:36 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
..> On 28 May 2004 08:41:03 -0700, [email protected] (Reco Diver) wrote:
..>
..> .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
..> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:55:33 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
..> .>
..> .> .
..> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..> .> .news:[email protected]...
..> .> .> On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:42:10 GMT, "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote:
..> .> .>
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
..> .> .> .>
..> .> .> .> National parks are closed to mountain biking.
..> .> .> .
..> .> .> .Liar
..> .> .>
..> .> .> In general, mational parks are closed to mountain biking. You may have
..> .> .found the
..> .> .> regulations on mountain biking.
..> .> .
..> .> .No. I found specific references to mountain biking being allowed in several
..> .> .National Parks.
..> .>
..> .> You didn't read carefully. Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
..> .> roads,in some cases shared with SUVs. I think there is only ONE possible
..> .> singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park System.
..> .
..> .
..> .Yah know Doc, he might have you on this one. Really, it is a lie when
..> .you know the truth but insist that the opposite is true. We covered
..> .the "National Parks are closed to Mountain Biking," pretty well in
..> .2000,2001,2002 and 2003. As it has been pointed out to you there are
..> .at least 3 NPS units in California alone, that have "single track."
..> .Then of course there is "the one dedicated single track" in Arizona,
..> .and another unit in New Mexico (open on a limited basis).
..> .
..> .Pete F had this snip addressed to you back in 2001
..> ."Visitor Centers offer a free map (494K PDF) of the park's trails,
..> .indicating which trails are designated for bike travel. Point Reyes
..> .permits biking only outside of wilderness areas along emergency
..> .access/dirt fire roads, paved roads and a few single-track trails."
..> .
..> .In ~2000 Gt pointed out that REDW had several trails
..> .
..> .In 2003, I pointed out that JOTR and SAGU both have trails open to
..> .Mountain biking.
..> .
..> .> .So you admit your blanket statement of "National parks are closed to
..> .> .mountain biking" is a lie?
..> .>
..> .> No, in general, it is a fact.
..> .
..> .You poor, poor, little man ... You know you are wrong and you still
..> .try to wiggle out of it. You said "National parks are closed to
..> .mountain biking."
..>
..> Generally speaking, the National Parks ARE closed to mountain biking.
..
..There is no CFR prohibiting the use of mountain bikes in side of
..National Parks. There are CFR's limiting the use to specific areas,
..but that does not make a Park "closed" to the use of a mountain bike.

Can't you read??? I am talking about mountain biking, NOT "use of a mountain
bike". You are free to use your as a chair, if you like. DUH!

..> I never
..> said "ALL National Parks ...", which would have been untrue. Learn to read....
..
..You said "National parks are closed to mountain biking." That
..statement has no modifier. It is an inclusive statement.

Yes. It means the same as "In general, National parks are closed to mountain
biking."

..> You know this isn't the truth, so you try redirect
..> .the argument by saying, "Most of those "trails" are actually just dirt
..> .roads,in some cases shared with SUVs." It is as if you are try to say
..> .that it isn't mountian biking unless it is on single track. And
..> .finally you try to redirect the argument by saying "I think there is
..> .only ONE possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the
..> .National Park System," which you also know is not true, since it has
..> .been pointed out to repeatedly that there are several parks that allow
..> .mountain biking on trails.
..>
..> BS. You forgot that I said "I think ...", which makes it true.
..
..It does not make the statement true. Just because you believe it to be
..true does not preclude the possibility that you were wrong. Are you so
..afraid of being wrong doc?

If I say "I think ...", then it's true as long as I really think that,
REGARDLESS of whether what I think is a fact.

..What makes it a lie is not the fact that you "think" it to be the case
..when it is not. What makes it a lie is that the number of trails that
..are open to Mountain biking in the National Park system has been
..repeatedly pointed out to you, you have even responded to the postings
..by GT, Pete F, and others, and yet you say "I think there is only ONE
..possible singletrack mountain biking trail in all of the National Park
..System." You are either a liar, or you have a terrible memory.

It's still true.

..<snip>
..
..R

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Tetsuo Shima" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Marty, if he IS a troll, he's a clueless wannabe. I think he's trying to

be
> serious. ;)
>
>


Oh.... he's serious. But he also trolls. He knows who he can tweak and plays
them like a fiddle.