Why do people beat their heads against the wall at DPF?



jimmypop

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Feb 20, 2008
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... still? Gluttons for punishment. There's no discussion on that site, and Steve the Magical Aged Sprinter is still a twit.

Landis and Armstrong are back? The latter is even a columnist at Velonews. Proof that cycling fans, like fans of most niche sports, are willing to excuse the obvious in the name of supporting the sport as a whole. Truly a cult.

Competitive cycling really has done a full 180; the sport has rounded the corner from absurdity back to normality, and no one even blinked. So now, a big "**** You" to not only the participants and organizers, but to the fans as well.
 
jimmypop said:
... still? Gluttons for punishment. There's no discussion on that site, and Steve the Magical Aged Sprinter is still a twit.

Landis and Armstrong are back? The latter is even a columnist at Velonews. Proof that cycling fans, like fans of most niche sports, are willing to excuse the obvious in the name of supporting the sport as a whole. Truly a cult.

Competitive cycling really has done a full 180; the sport has rounded the corner from absurdity back to normality, and no one even blinked. So now, a big "**** You" to not only the participants and organizers, but to the fans as well.
I didn't like to see a blameless man have his name dragged through the mud. If that means arguing with the likes of Bobke, so be it.
 
Don't know. So went over to check it out and it is the same thing, nothing has changed. The moderation is still completely biased and will never change, yet people keep on complaining about it. Why? The use of logic won't change a thing, it hasn't in the past and it won't now.
 
earth_dweller said:
Don't know. So went over to check it out and it is the same thing, nothing has changed. The moderation is still completely biased and will never change, yet people keep on complaining about it. Why? The use of logic won't change a thing, it hasn't in the past and it won't now.
:eek: :( :D :cool:
 
jimmypop said:
Competitive cycling really has done a full 180; the sport has rounded the corner from absurdity back to normality, and no one even blinked. So now, a big "**** You" to not only the participants and organizers, but to the fans as well.
Word.

I am through with pro cycling. I used to check cyclingnews every day--often several times a day to catch interday updates. I have not visited that site at all in several months. I doubt I will watch any TV coverage this year. Last season was the end for me.

McQuaid refusing to test Giro and 2007 TdF samples for CERA destroyed what little credibility the UCI had with regards to doping. The bio passport turned out to be a joke. They made ten times as many tests as the year before but managed not to catch anyone. Meanwhile the AFLD, with a tiny fraction of the data the UCI had, managed to target and bust 20% of the Tour's stage winners. CSC's TdF performance was every bit as ridiculous as the old Postal team's even though they were supposedly being watched by Damsgaard. And then to top everything off, the biggest fraud in the history of sport is welcomed back with open arms. The UCI even bends the rules to allow him to compete in the TDU. Then when you think it cannot get any worse, l'Equipe has its reporting on doping curtailed, which evidently came about in a deal between the ASO and Armstrong. The UCI and the organizers have clearly signalled that the Wayback Machine has been set to 1997; full on doping is the expected way to win and will be protected--well, it will be protected if the rider is on a team that is part of the good ol' boys network.

Cycling stinks of obvious corruption. It is worse than professional wrestling. At least wrestling admits that it is fake.

As far as DPF, it is pathetic to see the Lance chamois sniffers continue to delude themselves that anything about pro cycling is remotely legitimate. People like ChrisH and bobke present a real conundrum for democracy; how can a democracy function when people that bone ****ing stupid have the vote?
 
jimmypop said:
... still? Gluttons for punishment. There's no discussion on that site, and Steve the Magical Aged Sprinter is still a twit.

Landis and Armstrong are back? The latter is even a columnist at Velonews. Proof that cycling fans, like fans of most niche sports, are willing to excuse the obvious in the name of supporting the sport as a whole. Truly a cult.

Competitive cycling really has done a full 180; the sport has rounded the corner from absurdity back to normality, and no one even blinked. So now, a big "**** You" to not only the participants and organizers, but to the fans as well.
ewww
 
Why do people beat their heads against the wall at DPF?

the same reason, Flyer keeps on doing whatever he is doing.
 
earth_dweller said:
Why do people beat their heads against the wall at DPF?

the same reason, Flyer keeps on doing whatever he is doing.
Everyone at DPF has mental problems like Tom Morris? Makes sense. Two sides of the same crazy coin.
 
Bro Deal said:
McQuaid refusing to test Giro and 2007 TdF samples for CERA destroyed what little credibility the UCI had with regards to doping. The bio passport turned out to be a joke. They made ten times as many tests as the year before but managed not to catch anyone. Meanwhile the AFLD, with a tiny fraction of the data the UCI had, managed to target and bust 20% of the Tour's stage winners.

CSC's TdF performance was every bit as ridiculous as the old Postal team's even though they were supposedly being watched by Damsgaard. And then to top everything off, the biggest fraud in the history of sport is welcomed back with open arms. The UCI even bends the rules to allow him to compete in the TDU. Then when you think it cannot get any worse, l'Equipe has its reporting on doping curtailed, which evidently came about in a deal between the ASO and Armstrong. The UCI and the organizers have clearly signalled that the Wayback Machine has been set to 1997; full on doping is the expected way to win and will be protected--well, it will be protected if the rider is on a team that is part of the good ol' boys network.

Cycling stinks of obvious corruption. It is worse than professional wrestling. At least wrestling admits that it is fake.
This is basically how I feel. Ive said all along that you dont let event organisers have any power and the current UCI must be destroyed/ended/exploded and something new built. Everything has to go back to national federations tied to govt funding where we can exclude/punish entire federations for isolated actions of individual athletes.

IMO no Spanish cyclist should be competing internationally. Not until they can show evidence their society has credibility in adhereing to internationally accepted standards of morality. If you want to see Spanish doping in full force take a look at the Australian Tennis Open currently in action. Verdasco and Nadal are both doped to the absolute eyeballs.

Private ownership of professional cycling teams leads to fake 'internal doping testing' and other such obsurdity. It hinders the sports ability to attract long term sponsorship arrangements with large multinationals and leads to this wankish merry go round of cockheads and spanners coming and going from the sport.

Britain, Australia, France and Germany are on the right track. (I tentatively put Australia in this group.)

Belgium, Italy, Spain and the USA can go and get ****ed. They arent interested in change.

I think the next logically step that can be implemented immediately is an increase from 2 year bans to 5 year bans. Once we start destroying a few athletes lives we will see them start to open up.

No one is going to open their mouths on the back of a 2 year ban. Its not enough.
 
Bro Deal said:
Word.

I am through with pro cycling. I used to check cyclingnews every day--often several times a day to catch interday updates. I have not visited that site at all in several months. I doubt I will watch any TV coverage this year. Last season was the end for me.

McQuaid refusing to test Giro and 2007 TdF samples for CERA destroyed what little credibility the UCI had with regards to doping. The bio passport turned out to be a joke. They made ten times as many tests as the year before but managed not to catch anyone. Meanwhile the AFLD, with a tiny fraction of the data the UCI had, managed to target and bust 20% of the Tour's stage winners. CSC's TdF performance was every bit as ridiculous as the old Postal team's even though they were supposedly being watched by Damsgaard. And then to top everything off, the biggest fraud in the history of sport is welcomed back with open arms. The UCI even bends the rules to allow him to compete in the TDU. Then when you think it cannot get any worse, l'Equipe has its reporting on doping curtailed, which evidently came about in a deal between the ASO and Armstrong. The UCI and the organizers have clearly signalled that the Wayback Machine has been set to 1997; full on doping is the expected way to win and will be protected--well, it will be protected if the rider is on a team that is part of the good ol' boys network.

Cycling stinks of obvious corruption. It is worse than professional wrestling. At least wrestling admits that it is fake.

As far as DPF, it is pathetic to see the Lance chamois sniffers continue to delude themselves that anything about pro cycling is remotely legitimate. People like ChrisH and bobke present a real conundrum for democracy; how can a democracy function when people that bone ****ing stupid have the vote?

Hard to disagree with anything that you've said (above), Bro.

For myself, I have curtailed susbscriptions to various magazines which I used to buy in order to follow the sport more closely.
The reason I curtailed my spend is because the cycling media has been the willing voice piece for a lot of the corruption that you refer to.
That spend embargo entends to refraining from deciding to purchase any replica kit/accessories for the past number of years.

Personally, I think that the only real way the sport may listen to what the majority of followers want, is if the followers of the sport boycott the sports products and boycott the agents (media/product manufacturers etc) of the sport.

I may be wrong, but I do think that a significant number of genuine followers of the sport want to see a clean and uncorrupt sport.
However there are a significant number who will accept doping and corruption.
Granted there are some "supporters" who approve of doping and who will continue to buy the products of the media/accessory manufacturers.
That is their decision.

As for DPF, I have visited that site once.
Looking at it's content and the sort of contributions it has, persuaded me not to join and/or visit that site again.
 
Geoff Vadar said:
This is basically how I feel. Ive said all along that you dont let event organisers have any power and the current UCI must be destroyed/ended/exploded and something new built. Everything has to go back to national federations tied to govt funding where we can exclude/punish entire federations for isolated actions of individual athletes.

IMO no Spanish cyclist should be competing internationally. Not until they can show evidence their society has credibility in adhereing to internationally accepted standards of morality. If you want to see Spanish doping in full force take a look at the Australian Tennis Open currently in action. Verdasco and Nadal are both doped to the absolute eyeballs.

Private ownership of professional cycling teams leads to fake 'internal doping testing' and other such obsurdity. It hinders the sports ability to attract long term sponsorship arrangements with large multinationals and leads to this wankish merry go round of cockheads and spanners coming and going from the sport.

Britain, Australia, France and Germany are on the right track. (I tentatively put Australia in this group.)

Belgium, Italy, Spain and the USA can go and get ****ed. They arent interested in change.

I think the next logically step that can be implemented immediately is an increase from 2 year bans to 5 year bans. Once we start destroying a few athletes lives we will see them start to open up.

No one is going to open their mouths on the back of a 2 year ban. Its not enough.

I would suggest life bans for those found to have doped.
 
limerickman said:
Hard to disagree with anything that you've said (above), Bro.

For myself, I have curtailed susbscriptions to various magazines which I used to buy in order to follow the sport more closely.
The reason I curtailed my spend is because the cycling media has been the willing voice piece for a lot of the corruption that you refer to.

.
I did the same, used to regularly buy a few of the magazines. Then when I was moving house a coupe of years ago I looked through all the magazines and the covers disgusted me. All of the cover "stars" were convicted or highly suspected dopers, and each and every magazine went along with their PR stories. There's one where they followed Basso and Riis in the Dolomites winter training and it's basically just a big PR lie to cover the blood doping he was stepping up to for his year as ET. The Pro Tour level of the sport is a big old lie, just like Bro says. There are some clean riders but LA's return has signalled the regression to the bad old days where the top "stars" of the sport are untouchable dopers and no questions will be asked. LA got rid of Clerc, bribed L'Equipe and the French riders can kiss goodbye to their chances of ever fielding another Tour winner.
The only magazine that asks any difficult question seems to be Cycling Weekly, but who apart from us Brits pays any attention?
 
Rolfrae said:
I did the same, used to regularly buy a few of the magazines. Then when I was moving house a coupe of years ago I looked through all the magazines and the covers disgusted me. All of the cover "stars" were convicted or highly suspected dopers, and each and every magazine went along with their PR stories. There's one where they followed Basso and Riis in the Dolomites winter training and it's basically just a big PR lie to cover the blood doping he was stepping up to for his year as ET. The Pro Tour level of the sport is a big old lie, just like Bro says. There are some clean riders but LA's return has signalled the regression to the bad old days where the top "stars" of the sport are untouchable dopers and no questions will be asked. LA got rid of Clerc, bribed L'Equipe and the French riders can kiss goodbye to their chances of ever fielding another Tour winner.
The only magazine that asks any difficult question seems to be Cycling Weekly, but who apart from us Brits pays any attention?
Agree with all that. I found Armstrong's comments of recent very strange including the below:

"It is interesting to see how certain lands and cultures are against my comeback. But in France things have changed in an important place. [Tour organiser] ASO president Patrice Clerc had to leave. He believed that the Tour alone was the star, not the athletes. But that's not the way it is in sports."
 
whiteboytrash said:
Agree with all that. I found Armstrong's comments of recent very strange including the below:

"It is interesting to see how certain lands and cultures are against my comeback. But in France things have changed in an important place. [Tour organiser] ASO president Patrice Clerc had to leave. He believed that the Tour alone was the star, not the athletes. But that's not the way it is in sports."
That's the exact quote I was thinking of. On a wider level, LA is like a hangover from the days of Cheyney and Bush Jr, where they basically said, if anyone goes against us we'll just bomb them into agreement. LA has undertaken his own piece if regime change to ensure his victory at the Tour. He's taken the "cheese munching surrender monkies" by the throat and told them who's boss. Cycling has been left behind. Whilst the world has turned onto Obama's change rhetoric, the UCI has shown its middle finger (or is it a Texan bull horns salute?).
 
Rolfrae said:
I did the same, used to regularly buy a few of the magazines. Then when I was moving house a coupe of years ago I looked through all the magazines and the covers disgusted me. All of the cover "stars" were convicted or highly suspected dopers, and each and every magazine went along with their PR stories. There's one where they followed Basso and Riis in the Dolomites winter training and it's basically just a big PR lie to cover the blood doping he was stepping up to for his year as ET. The Pro Tour level of the sport is a big old lie, just like Bro says. There are some clean riders but LA's return has signalled the regression to the bad old days where the top "stars" of the sport are untouchable dopers and no questions will be asked. LA got rid of Clerc, bribed L'Equipe and the French riders can kiss goodbye to their chances of ever fielding another Tour winner.
The only magazine that asks any difficult question seems to be Cycling Weekly, but who apart from us Brits pays any attention?

I had that same Riis/Basso magazine (2006 CS) and yeah, it was just a PR exercise as you say.

Like you, I have tonnes of copies of old magazines (especially Cycle Sport) and as you say they are festooned with images of riders who have since been found to be less than honest, shall we say.
If you were to tot up the cost of buying all those magazines.......................

I do buy Cycling Weekly from time to time and I do agree that it does take a more stringent line against doping than Cycle Sport (who's 1998 editorial stated that "we have taken an editorial decision to never feature the name or photograph of any riders found to have doped") and Procycling.
Credit where it is due the comic does argue for more stringent punishment for those caught doping.
 
Rolfrae said:
That's the exact quote I was thinking of. On a wider level, LA is like a hangover from the days of Cheyney and Bush Jr, where they basically said, if anyone goes against us we'll just bomb them into agreement. LA has undertaken his own piece if regime change to ensure his victory at the Tour. He's taken the "cheese munching surrender monkies" by the throat and told them who's boss. Cycling has been left behind. Whilst the world has turned onto Obama's change rhetoric, the UCI has shown its middle finger (or is it a Texan bull horns salute?).
LOL ! Very good.

Now problem being the other teams and in particular Saxo Bank will be looking at Astana and thinking "we need to amp up the programme if we want to complete". This will result in SB and Astana riding the entire peleton off their wheels. It will be one boring Tour. However there are those who would love to see Astana ride from Monaco to Paris on the front of the bunch at record speeds. Cadel don't stand a chance.
 
limerickman said:
I had that same Riis/Basso magazine (2006 CS) and yeah, it was just a PR exercise as you say.

Like you, I have tonnes of copies of old magazines (especially Cycle Sport) and as you say they are festooned with images of riders who have since been found to be less than honest, shall we say.
Broomwagon which is the offbeat section appearing at the back of CycleSport used to run a small article on "curse of the cover star".... I think it was 6 months running that each cover star was subsequently busted for doping.... Hamilton, Ullrich, Basso, Mancebo etc. I think they saw the humour and fruitlessness in it all.
 
whiteboytrash said:
LOL ! Very good.

Now problem being the other teams and in particular Saxo Bank will be looking at Astana and thinking "we need to amp up the programme if we want to complete". This will result in SB and Astana riding the entire peleton off their wheels. It will be one boring Tour. However there are those who would love to see Astana ride from Monaco to Paris on the front of the bunch at record speeds. Cadel don't stand a chance.
Back to the full on two-speed peleton. And perhaps that's the only way things will change, peer pressure. If there are enough teams in the 2nd lower speed category then the top speed won't get away with it. That's my optimistic streak showing through! The peleton used to be afraid of LA, he was the patron and no one dared speak out - except Simeoni and look what happened to him. I'm not so sure he'd get the same response these days.
 
limerickman said:
I do buy Cycling Weekly from time to time and I do agree that it does take a more stringent line against doping than Cycle Sport (who's 1998 editorial stated that "we have taken an editorial decision to never feature the name or photograph of any riders found to have doped") and Procycling.
Credit where it is due the comic does argue for more stringent punishment for those caught doping.

Cycling Weekly is very hypocritical though. Some riders like Millar and Ricco get absolutely slammed week after week, yet they run pages and pages of Astana features. The other week there was an editorial complaining about Columbia changing to a yellow kit, because apparently that reminded everyone too much of Ricardo Ricco at Saunier Duval, I mean come on.

They very carefully follow the traditional line that everyone is squeaky clean, until they get officially get caught, and then the rider is the devil incarnate and must have been acting alone without any team assistance.

I flick through it every week at the club, and if my name is in there then I go and buy a copy. At least I know I'm not doping and haven't taken any money to throw a race or anything. I got a whole sentence last week :D
 
rob of the og said:
Cycling Weekly is very hypocritical though. Some riders like Millar and Ricco get absolutely slammed week after week, yet they run pages and pages of Astana features. The other week there was an editorial complaining about Columbia changing to a yellow kit, because apparently that reminded everyone too much of Ricardo Ricco at Saunier Duval, I mean come on.

They very carefully follow the traditional line that everyone is squeaky clean, until they get officially get caught, and then the rider is the devil incarnate and must have been acting alone without any team assistance.

I flick through it every week at the club, and if my name is in there then I go and buy a copy. At least I know I'm not doping and haven't taken any money to throw a race or anything. I got a whole sentence last week :D
A whole sentence? What was it? TBH I'd rather read about riders like yourself than ******** artists like Armstrong.
The problem for Cycling Weekly is they know full well that having LA on the cover will sell more copies than having any other rider, even you Rob. :D
 

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