Why do people ride recumbents

[Chris French]

In message <[email protected]>, W K <[email protected]> writes
>
>"andyp" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I've read the whole thread and found it very interesting. Noone yet has talked about going up
>> hill on a bent. Is it easier, harder or the same as
>a
>> wedgie?. I have never ridden a bent but always thought that not being able to stand on the pedals
>> when the going gets tough to be a problem.
>
>I don't know the answer to that personally, but to me its a non problem.
>
My only experience of a 'bent is a some years ago when I took a Peer Gynt (LWB touring 'bent) for a
day's tour around mid Wales (so plenty of hills...)

While I did notice that some muscles in my legs were used more/differently than on an upright, I
can't say that I found it any harder, or noticed that it was particularly slower. I certainly didn't
find it any harder.

I'm not a fast rider, esp. on tour, and on hills tend to be a sit down and twiddle type so I was
happy to sit back and twiddle.

And of course going down the other side.................
--
Chris French, Leeds

 

[Sky Fly]

"Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Sky Fly wrote:
> > Shouldn't this be "...the bike is inherently *less* stable"?
>
> When you start to fall to one side, the closer you are to upright the easier it is to correct your
> balance. The higher you are, the longer it takes for your angle to move away from perpendicular as
> you start to fall, so you have longer to correct your balance.

But Danny, this only works if your COG is high relative to the breadth of your base. What if you
have a pretty broad base so that you would have to tilt *way* out before your COG started to act to
turn you over?

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

 

[Danny Colyer]

Sky Fly wrote:
> But Danny, this only works if your COG is high relative to the breadth of your base. What if you
> have a pretty broad base so that you would have to tilt *way* out before your COG started to act
> to turn you over?

That's why a recumbent trike falls over much less easily than a recumbent bike, even though the
trike is often lower ;-)

--
Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
Thomas Paine

 

[Sky Fly]

"Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Sky Fly wrote:
> > But Danny, this only works if your COG is high relative to the breadth of your base. What if you
> > have a pretty broad base so that you would have to tilt *way* out before your COG started to act
> > to turn you over?
>
> That's why a recumbent trike falls over much less easily than a recumbent bike, even though the
> trike is often lower ;-)

But then, this means I *am* right when I say that having a low COG gives you more stability than a
high COG *if* the base breadth is the same, yes?

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

 

[W K]

"Sky Fly" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Sky Fly wrote:
> > > But Danny, this only works if your COG is high relative to the breadth of your base. What if
> > > you have a pretty broad base so that you would have to tilt *way* out before your COG started
> > > to act to turn you over?
> >
> > That's why a recumbent trike falls over much less easily than a recumbent bike, even though the
> > trike is often lower ;-)
>
> But then, this means I *am* right when I say that having a low COG gives you more stability than a
> high COG *if* the base breadth is the same, yes?

Not if your COG is hardly ever over the base. ie - chairs,cars, ornaments tip over when the COG goes
beyond the edge of the base. On a bike, balance is based on mucking about with the steering to place
the COG back over the base - which is near enough zero width anyway. This trick is easier for bikes
where you sit higher and pool queues rather than low bikes or pencils.

Theres a different set of rules in force.

 

[Danny Colyer]

Sky Fly wrote:
> But then, this means I *am* right when I say that having a low COG gives you more stability than a
> high COG *if* the base breadth is the same, yes?

Hmm. That's the sort of commonsense argument where it becomes difficult to explain why it's wrong.

What you say *could* be true, depending on the ratio of COG height:base breadth, and on whether the
balance is static or dynamic.

Even with a really low recumbent bike, the COG height is many times greater than the width of the
base (i.e. the width of tyre in contact with the ground). It is not possible to statically balance
the bike in an upright position. The balance has to be dynamic, i.e. the rider constantly shifts his
weight, usually subconsciously, to one side or the other in order to correct the balance.

With dynamic balance, a low COG means that balance corrections have to be quicker and more precise,
which makes maintaining the balance more challenging. A trike does not require dynamic balance
(except possibly when cornering), and in agreement with your argument a low recumbent trike is more
stable than an upright trike.

--
Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
Thomas Paine

 

[Carol Hague]

Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

> andyp wrote:
>
> > Thanks, I'll have a go one day. I've never seen one in the LBS and do not fancy test riding at
> > bikefix in central London.
>
> I think they have an offroad test area, but ICBW. There's also Future Cycles and West Country
> Recumbents (in Yorkshire, obviously) -

Thanks for the mention Guy - bear in mind that we only do trikes though
- the Dark Side of the Dark Side, as it were

>and during the year there will be a number of rallies and such where you can see and play
>with bents.

Spokesfest in Leicester usually has a "come and try" type event at some point.

Jim McGurn's Company Of Cyclists do various tryout events around the country - their website is at
:- http://www.companyofcyclists.com/

--
Carol Hague Westcountry Recumbents http://www.wrhpv.com Feet first on three wheels.

 

[Clive George]

"Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:36:16 +0000, Colin Blackburn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Don't remind me. I've been warned by her that warns me that I shouldn't even think about it while
> >in the process of buying a house. If she sees as much as one more wheel in the house she'll have
> >my guts, heaven help me if three appear!
>
>
>
> Easy, get e recumbent tandem trike. Then SWMBO can join in the fun. All you need is a
> secondhand one for sale. Ooh look, an email from the tandem club for sale board has just
> fluttered onto my PC.

For a change, I'll forgo my normal 'tandems are really great' spiel (but really, they are!).

Going recumbent for a tandem isn't nearly as much advantage as going recumbent for a single bike -
you've already got a pretty good aero advantage.

On a freewheel test, our GTT only just beat the upright tandem (aero bars on the upright may well
have clinched it, it was that close).

cheers, clive

 

[Tim Hall]

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 16:26:11 -0000, "Eddie Dubourg" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>I think it's Kinetics who have the weird half recumbent tandem - the captain is in a recumbent
>position, the stoker upright - they claim it makes it easier to communicate etc.

Hase Spezialraeder Pino. Made in Germany, sold by Future Cycles and London Recumbents and Kinetics
amongst others. One owned by me.

Captain is upright, stoker recumbent although captain is at the back. Think butcher's delivery bike
with a recumbent seat where the basket would be. Yes, communication is easier, although
aerodynamically it's a bit of nightmare given the very upright ness of the captain. I can duck down
behind the stoker and peer over her shoulder. I can also put my tongue in her ear.

See <http://www.wilde-hobbs.freeserve.co.uk/pictures/p001018.jpg>
for a picture. That's me on the back, Mrs. Hall on the front.

Tim
--
fast and gripping, non pompous, glossy and credible.

 

[Eddie Dubourg]

"Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Easy, get e recumbent tandem trike. Then SWMBO can join in the fun. All you need is a
> > secondhand one for sale. Ooh look, an email from the tandem club for sale board has just
> > fluttered onto my PC.
>
> For a change, I'll forgo my normal 'tandems are really great' spiel (but really, they are!).
>
> Going recumbent for a tandem isn't nearly as much advantage as going recumbent for a single bike -
> you've already got a pretty good aero advantage.

I think it's Kinetics who have the weird half recumbent tandem - the captain is in a recumbent
position, the stoker upright - they claim it makes it easier to communicate etc.

They have some wierd machines in that place.

E

 

[Peter Clinch]

Clive George wrote:

> Going recumbent for a tandem isn't nearly as much advantage as going recumbent for a single bike -
> you've already got a pretty good aero advantage.
>
> On a freewheel test, our GTT only just beat the upright tandem (aero bars on the upright may well
> have clinched it, it was that close).

But is that a bike or trike? On a 'bent trike you'll have greater frontal area because of the
sideways spread and greater rolling resistance from the extra wheel.

Though in any case, SWMBO would get to sit in a comfy chair, in which case never mind the aero...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Michael Macclan]

"Tim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote

I can also put
> my tongue in her ear.
>
> See <http://www.wilde-hobbs.freeserve.co.uk/pictures/p001018.jpg>
> for a picture. That's me on the back, Mrs. Hall on the front.
>

It must be a bit difficult putting your tongue in her ear when she's wearing that helmet. Is this a
special ear protection helmet? Or is it just the picture?

 

[Tony Raven]

Tim Hall <[email protected]> wrote:

> I can also put my tongue in her ear.
>

I presume that's after you've bitten your tongue off with those clenched teeth.

Tony

http://www.raven-family.com

"The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" George
Bernard Shaw.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Eddie Dubourg wrote:

> I think it's Kinetics who have the weird half recumbent tandem - the captain is in a recumbent
> position, the stoker upright - they claim it makes it easier to communicate etc.

Hase Pino, IIRC. I've not seen one on the shop, but Ben's a Hase dealer and can get them in. I think
it's the other way round, though, the stoker's out front with the captain behind on the saddle.

> They have some wierd machines in that place.

One man's weird is another's "comfortable and practical"... The diamond frame cycle is truly
wondrous in its versatility, but if you only need a subset of that versatility, or versatility in
different places, there are often alternatives that can make a lot more sense.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Clive George]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Clive George wrote:
>
> > Going recumbent for a tandem isn't nearly as much advantage as going recumbent for a single bike
> > - you've already got a pretty good aero advantage.
> >
> > On a freewheel test, our GTT only just beat the upright tandem (aero
bars on
> > the upright may well have clinched it, it was that close).
>
> But is that a bike or trike? On a 'bent trike you'll have greater frontal area because of the
> sideways spread and greater rolling resistance from the extra wheel.

GTT = greenspeed tandem trike (though it's not an acronym).

> Though in any case, SWMBO would get to sit in a comfy chair, in which case never mind the aero...

Mine didn't like the fact it was slow as pants, and the scenery was far worse (on an upright at
least you can see over the walls) - mmm, yet more grotty verge to stare at.

cheers, clive

 

[Alan Braggins]

"Eddie Dubourg" <[email protected]> writes:
> "Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Going recumbent for a tandem isn't nearly as much advantage as going recumbent for a single bike
> > - you've already got a pretty good aero advantage.
>
> I think it's Kinetics who have the weird half recumbent tandem - the captain is in a recumbent
> position, the stoker upright - they claim it makes it easier to communicate etc.

There's the Pino, which has an upright captain and a recumbent stoker in front of him/her (using the
definition that the captain is the person who is steering).

No idea if Kinetics have one, I tried one (with no stoker) at a try-out day in Cambridge
(http://www.camcycle.org.uk/events/bikeweek/)

(Ok, the first link Google gives me for "Pino tandem" is
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/pino_specs.html so I guess Kinetics do have them.)

 

[Eddie Dubourg]

"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > They have some wierd machines in that place.
>
> One man's weird is another's "comfortable and practical"... The diamond frame cycle is truly
> wondrous in its versatility, but if you only need a subset of that versatility, or versatility in
> different places, there are often alternatives that can make a lot more sense.
>
Weird is a peculiarly irregular word.

In this case weird meant "incredible marvels that my limited budget cannot currently afford - but
one day one of them /will/ be mine"

E