Why does Armstrong provoke such strong pro/anti feelings ?
- Thread starter limerickman
- Start date
This is a great message that you've posted here and I am happy that you got on so famously with your cycling hero.
These days the so-called sportsmen and women take the view of their supporters for granted.
Obviously in this instance Armstrong & Co took time to consider you and your enthuasiasm.
Blonde or not - it's great that they took time to be friendly and open.
I do have to disagree with one part of your post : Indurain is a gentleman and is well, well regarded within our sport.
I can tell you from personal experience that the man is exactly the same on/off the bike.
Nothing in his behaviour or words could possibly be lost in translation, I would suggest.
The man was a winner through and through but he always kept his own counsel and he always paid respect to the sport and his competitors : a lesson which Armstrong would do well to heed.
The idea that the Armstrong image broadcast outside the U.S. is an entire misrepresentation, and very possibly a malicious and false one is the only scenario I can conceive that might explain the comments I see here. Armstrong is continually greatful to his team, supportive of his competition and truly loves the sport.
Did we all see the pat on the back he delivered to Sylvain
Chavanel as he passed him on Luz Ardiden? Was that represented as anything other than an apology for needing to steal the win away from him? Did we see Armstrong refuse to take the 3rd place finish from Ullrich on Luz Ardiden in 2001, despite the fact that Ullrich tried to attack? Did we all see Ullrich reach his hand back and offer it to Lance in a silent "thank you" as they crossed the line? Did we all see Armstrong attempting to offer a stage win to his team mate, Roberto Heras, even plotting a strategy to deliver that win to Heras in 2002? (Unfortunately, Beloki came back strong, forcing Lance to take the win himself.)
These are not the actions of the person I see described so often here. It even occurs to me that if Indurain, who is globally recognized as a pure gentleman, were to see a winner acting in a manner devoid of humility and honor, he might not be so quick to have taught lance about low gears and high cadence on the climbs. Perhaps they wouldn't be such close friends. The same goes for Merckx. In my opinion, Lance is being sabotaged by the european media and the public is swallowing everything the media chooses to feed them.
It's such a shame that Armstrong is seen as arrogant, disrepectful and selfish when he has done so much to attempt to prove that this is not what or who he is.
The media has the power to shape anyone they want in any manner they want and that is a power which they often weild with no sense of responsibility.
We get the same TV pictures but we have different commentators who put a different slant on what they see...
No-one can argue with the facts - the pat on Sylvain Chavanel's back, and many other displays of team-work and sportsmanship that he has shown throughout his career. It's just that some people prefer to assess his personality based purely on his off-the-bike conduct, which hasn't always shown him in the best light.
Of course, his off-the-bike conduct counts some way towards any assessment of his personality but it's worth looking at the whole picture. Alicem's personal anecdotal experience shows another side that we don't always get to see and it's always great to hear those sorts of stories - thanks alicem!
Therein lies the answer to the question posed in the subject line of this thread. Polarised media opinion. Most of us don't know the man personally so we can only go by what we're told and the way he is portrayed means we have to take sides.
Hello,
Regarding Lance Armstrong, the main problem for me is the reaction of the none cycling press to him after his miraculous recovery from cancer.
Specifically he is the only cyclist they have heard of or are interested in. This means that when , or if he wins his 6th Tour de France he will be hailed as the greatest cyclist of all time. Now he is certainly already great, but whatever he does now could he ever be called the greatest?
Could you ever compare him to Merkyx who while winning his 5 tours was also riding lots of other races and seriosly trying to win them, not just using them as training for something`more important`. Would he also ever consider riding the Giro and the Tour in the same season?. I doubt it.
The rest of us know that the cycling season does not begin and end in July.
Limpet
Regarding Lance Armstrong, the main problem for me is the reaction of the none cycling press to him after his miraculous recovery from cancer.
Specifically he is the only cyclist they have heard of or are interested in. This means that when , or if he wins his 6th Tour de France he will be hailed as the greatest cyclist of all time. Now he is certainly already great, but whatever he does now could he ever be called the greatest?
Could you ever compare him to Merkyx who while winning his 5 tours was also riding lots of other races and seriosly trying to win them, not just using them as training for something`more important`. Would he also ever consider riding the Giro and the Tour in the same season?. I doubt it.
The rest of us know that the cycling season does not begin and end in July.
Limpet
Humm, this is a really fascinating board. What food for thought on all counts, it really has got me questioning even more as we run up to the hopefully groundbreaking 6 in a row.
Something else that I thought of was/is the language barrier too and misrepresentations of the British, French and Americans personality wise. The Brits and French apparantly hate each other and so many friends cracked jokes about how hard the French would make life for me but except for one incidence I found every person, be it at the laundrettes; pharmacy, restaurants, stopping to ask for directions, to the Police themselves were all SO kind and helpful. Is this because I speak French although not as well as Spanish and was making the effort? Plenty of times I swaped verbs around by accident but people patiently waited and helped. Have Armstrongs' apparant reluctance to speak much (although if it were me I think I would speak even less if I had been 'hounded' at the beginning in particular), let alone in French created this barrier?
Anecdotal wise since some have found my original post interesting/amusing/whatever/or that maybe it makes me giggle to recall such a great holiday... I do have a couple more that may be of interest and certainly in my opinion really shows the true spirit and community feel of the Tour. My ex and I had no food or water and were 5 km from the stage finish along the TTT route in 01. I started off walking only to be picked up by one of the caravan publicitaire cars and told to hop in. They passed me over to a Policeman who took me shopping (I swear to God this is so not made up!) and then drove me back to where we were alongside our newly made German friends much to their alarm until they realised I hadn't been arrested! He was just SO happy to help, amazing!
Another was a dreadful day weather wise and it rained like nothing I have experienced before and we had to drive for 8 hours to get to Pontarlier. Exhausted and soaked to the bone despite all the weatherproof gear we finally found a McDonalds and HAD to get a hot drink. We were lost and it was almost 10pm and I spotted 2 T.S.C crew so went and asked for advice on how to get to the hotel. They only finished their meal and said they would lead us to the hotel. All well and good except the roads were soaked and they were going rather fast for a motorbike in such conditions and the lights changed so my ex had to slide the bike over or crash into their car as he was riding too close to them for the conditions. We slid and it wasn't pleasant. They both raced over as I came to and were SO sweet and helpful despite it not being their fault at all. No one was hurt badlybut I was in shock so they popped me in their car as my ex rode behind safely this time to the hotel. People with such hearts of gold, and yes, I meant it honestly when I said, 'Allez Jaja' before they left!!!!
----I won't go on about getting in accidentally to the 'press only enclosure' and was desperatly trying to get out and got a telling off and had to explain that I was already trying to leave for goodness sake!!!
Sorry for changing the thread in parts but to me it is all so interlinked, and that is why the TDF is just an epic race which creates such passion and debate but also a forum for expression like here.
Alice ***
Something else that I thought of was/is the language barrier too and misrepresentations of the British, French and Americans personality wise. The Brits and French apparantly hate each other and so many friends cracked jokes about how hard the French would make life for me but except for one incidence I found every person, be it at the laundrettes; pharmacy, restaurants, stopping to ask for directions, to the Police themselves were all SO kind and helpful. Is this because I speak French although not as well as Spanish and was making the effort? Plenty of times I swaped verbs around by accident but people patiently waited and helped. Have Armstrongs' apparant reluctance to speak much (although if it were me I think I would speak even less if I had been 'hounded' at the beginning in particular), let alone in French created this barrier?
Anecdotal wise since some have found my original post interesting/amusing/whatever/or that maybe it makes me giggle to recall such a great holiday... I do have a couple more that may be of interest and certainly in my opinion really shows the true spirit and community feel of the Tour. My ex and I had no food or water and were 5 km from the stage finish along the TTT route in 01. I started off walking only to be picked up by one of the caravan publicitaire cars and told to hop in. They passed me over to a Policeman who took me shopping (I swear to God this is so not made up!) and then drove me back to where we were alongside our newly made German friends much to their alarm until they realised I hadn't been arrested! He was just SO happy to help, amazing!
Another was a dreadful day weather wise and it rained like nothing I have experienced before and we had to drive for 8 hours to get to Pontarlier. Exhausted and soaked to the bone despite all the weatherproof gear we finally found a McDonalds and HAD to get a hot drink. We were lost and it was almost 10pm and I spotted 2 T.S.C crew so went and asked for advice on how to get to the hotel. They only finished their meal and said they would lead us to the hotel. All well and good except the roads were soaked and they were going rather fast for a motorbike in such conditions and the lights changed so my ex had to slide the bike over or crash into their car as he was riding too close to them for the conditions. We slid and it wasn't pleasant. They both raced over as I came to and were SO sweet and helpful despite it not being their fault at all. No one was hurt badlybut I was in shock so they popped me in their car as my ex rode behind safely this time to the hotel. People with such hearts of gold, and yes, I meant it honestly when I said, 'Allez Jaja' before they left!!!!
----I won't go on about getting in accidentally to the 'press only enclosure' and was desperatly trying to get out and got a telling off and had to explain that I was already trying to leave for goodness sake!!!
Sorry for changing the thread in parts but to me it is all so interlinked, and that is why the TDF is just an epic race which creates such passion and debate but also a forum for expression like here.
Alice ***
I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression with my comments about Lance. My problem is with the people who judge cyclists by Tour de France success only, particularly the low end general press who have only latched onto Lance since his remarkable recovery from cancer.
Are they aware that he was World road race champion and a very good classics racer before his illness?
Personally I have a great deal of admiration for the man and there aren`t many that I take the liberty of referring to by their first name, as opposed to Ulrich, Pantani, Miller etc.
All in all if I have a problem it`s that I tend not to like to see the same person , or team, win over and over again regardless of the sport, particularly I would like to see the French do a little better this year , after all it`s been a while.
By the way I`m a Brit , for my sins.
Limpet
I think they do know of Lance's prior achievements but have dismissed many of his Tour De France accomplishments as he returned a very different rider compared to pre cancer so suspicion arose. His total loss of fitness and muscle due to the debilitating effects of treating stage 3 cancer and then coming back lighter than that bulkier frame he once had. Even Lance says how he would just attack and often bonk as he went too early wheras now he has to focus on those 3 weeks instead of 'just' 1 day or retiring early when with Motorolo in the TDF but he was ill if I remember rightly yet didn't know it then. Also he speaks of how his peddaling technique changed too, or rather how he really learnt to pedal more effectivley compared to before.~Limerick, am I right in thinking Indurian helped him with that? To many it is just unthinkable that he has managed to live let alone win 5 in a row as there was no way he could have done that pre cancer being the rider he once was.
Hey, and what's all this about being a Brit for your sins?! I'm standing tall on that issue..lol..
Alicexx
Hey, and what's all this about being a Brit for your sins?! I'm standing tall on that issue..lol..
Alicexx
Beastt, I respect your views but the way you paint it, is that there's some vast European conspiracy to defame, do-down
Armstrong !
Do you really think that the European media have singled him out for a bit of rough treatment ?
I think that you're reaching here.
I can't say that I know Armstrong but he has matured from the hot heat that he was in the early 1990's.
But come on, the man isn't a saint either (no man is a saint).
For all the maturity that he has shown recently, the same
small mindedness brews away under the surface (his comments about Alp D'Huez, his remarks about Pantani, his remarks about Ullrich).
His attitude is exactly like Bernard Hinault's !
Hold up here my friend.
Armstrong is no where near the greatest cyclist ever.
His palmares is too weak to be even considered as being in the
the top 5 of all time.
Please, please can you (and the rest of the Armstrong is Greatest
apologists) got to www.cyclinghalloffame.com and read what's there - you will see exactly where your hero is amongst the all time greats.
And no he won't cycle a Giro or a Vuelta in the same year as trying to cycle a TDF, because he equates (wrongly) that by winning a TDF represents a successful season.
He does not have the ability to win two major tours in a season (sorry, I'll rephrase that, he doesn't have the belief in his own ability to risk trying to win two major tours in the one season).
The alleged friendship between Indurain and Armstrong : the publicity for this friendship seems to be only coming from one
side and that's Armstrong side !
I've never read/heard Miguel refer to Armstrong in a personal capacity.
WhaT I can tell you is that Miguel and Sean Kelly and Eddy Merckx have travelled to USA to take part if that Roses race,
that Armstrong organises to raise funds for charity.
According to his book, Merckx visited him in hospital when he was ill.
But no, I've never heard Miguel refer to Armstrong as a friend.
So I guess we've got to take Armstrong's word for it that he and Miguel are friends.
The only person that I've ever heard Miguel refer to - of the current cyclists - in friendly terms was Jan.
In Dublin in 1998, I met Miguel and he spoke very warmly of Jan.
Originally posted by limpet
Thanks for that
Limpet
Limpet : your words
This means that when , or if he wins his 6th Tour de France he will be hailed as the greatest cyclist of all time. Now he is certainly already great, but whatever he does now could he ever be called the greatest? " end quote.
My reply to you was that he cannot be considered the greatest cyclist ever unless and until he adds more titles to his palmares
I suggest that you (and Mr.Straw and the rest of his advocates )look at www.cyclinghallofame to see just where he ranks in the
alltime list.
