Why does USA even send a Men's OLY road race team?

[OnThaBeach]

The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.

And who did the USA not send - the only American to have a major tour sprint
this year.

And who DNF? The two Americas sent intstead of Fred. If Levi could't or
would't finish he should have stayed home. At least Tyler and Bobby can argue
they were saving themselves for the time trial.

Maybe in four years the OLY road race will be a three-week stage race and the
USA team will do better.

Bryan

 

[A.Lee]

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:25:25 +0000, OnThaBeach wrote:

> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.

Err, no, the breakaway won.
Lack of team tactics allowed the break to stay ahead when they only had 30
seconds lead with 13km to go.
Alan

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
http://www.dvatc.co.uk - Off-road cycling in the North Midlands.

 

[Ken Papai]

"OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.

Nope. Clue back in.

> And who did the USA not send - the only American to have a major tour
sprint
> this year.
>
> And who DNF? The two Americas sent intstead of Fred. If Levi could't or
> would't finish he should have stayed home. At least Tyler and Bobby can
argue
> they were saving themselves for the time trial.

Lots of top guys DNF in the 100+ (F) heat.
Maybe you're thinking of the race 8 or 12 years ago?

-Ken

> Maybe in four years the OLY road race will be a three-week stage race and
the
> USA team will do better.
>
> Bryan
>
>
>

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

"OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
>


Dumbass,

Bettini won in a break.

Thanks,
Hold my

 

[Faster Bordello]

A.Lee wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:25:25 +0000, OnThaBeach wrote:
>
>
>>The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
>
>
> Err, no, the breakaway won.
> Lack of team tactics allowed the break to stay ahead when they only had 30
> seconds lead with 13km to go.
> Alan
>
just loved the USA straegy. No, we'll freelance, we don't have a team
leader.........

 

[Boyd Speerschneider]

Faster Bordello <[email protected]> wrote in news:cfm7rn$642$2
@news.xmission.com:

> just loved the USA straegy. No, we'll freelance, we don't have a team
> leader.........

How would you have done it?

"I'll ride for you because you'll pay me back later when ....errr, oh wait,
no you won't."

"You should ride for me because I'll pay you back later when...errr, oh wait,
no I won't."

 

[Al James]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> "OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
>>
>
> Dumbass,
>
> Bettini won in a break.

Dumbass,

You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected, a
sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. The fact that Bettini won in a weird
two-man break instead of a field sprint or leadout is irrelevant. And he's
saying, since we knew a sprint-capable cyclist was going to win the gold,
why the heck didn't Team USA have someone like Fred Rodriguez on the team?
I gotta agree with the O.P. here. The coaches that made the discretionary
team picks oughta be taken out to the woodshed.

Al

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
Al James <[email protected]> wrote:

> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > "OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
> >>
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > Bettini won in a break.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected, a
> sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. The fact that Bettini won in a weird
> two-man break instead of a field sprint or leadout is irrelevant. And he's
> saying, since we knew a sprint-capable cyclist was going to win the gold,
> why the heck didn't Team USA have someone like Fred Rodriguez on the team?
> I gotta agree with the O.P. here. The coaches that made the discretionary
> team picks oughta be taken out to the woodshed.
>
> Al

There were no discretionary picks. The team was chosen based on meeting
criteria that favored guys who'd done well in stage races. And, after LANCE
chose not to go, the next choice (based on the selection criteria) was Levi
Leipheimer. They really needed to make it so the criteria would give more
riders to choose from, then pick the team based on the course and who's
going good. Fred Rodriguez should have been there. (Would he have won? Hard
to say, but he would have stood a better chance, imo, than the guys who did
go.) The people who decided on the selection criteria oughta be taken out
to the wood chipper.

As for it ending in a "weird two-man break", I don't think it was that
weird. That's the kind of thing Bettini excels at making happen, and then
winning.

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 06:50:36 GMT, Al James <[email protected]> wrote:

>"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> "OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
>>>
>>
>> Dumbass,
>>
>> Bettini won in a break.
>
>Dumbass,
>
>You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected, a
>sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. T

Dumbass, Bettini is much too complete a cyclist to be called a
"sprinter-type".

JT

****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
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[TritonRider]

>From: Howard Kveck [email protected]

There were no discretionary picks. The team was chosen based on meeting
criteria that favored guys who'd done well in stage races. And, after LANCE
chose not to go, the next choice (based on the selection criteria) was Levi
Leipheimer. They really needed to make it so the criteria would give more
riders to choose from, then pick the team based on the course and who's
going good.

Unfortunately when they had some leeway to do that it seems like it was
nothing but politics and ********. It'd be really nice if the people involved
in making selections made them based on who was going to give the best chance
for a win. Seems like the Italians are finally at this point after their
fiascos, but that's because the general public in Italy actually give a ****
and really put the heat on them.
The way we are doing things now might give us **** for results, but the people
at USAC don't have to listen to all the accusations they used to.
Just my **** poor opinion.
Bill C

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"Faster Bordello" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> No, we'll freelance, we don't have a team leader...
^^^^^^

Was that supposed to be a pun?

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

How stupid do you have to be to call a guy who can win hilly classics, win
in breakaways, and win just about any race that doesn't have finish at the
top of a cat II or higher climb a 'sprinter'...?

Miguel Indurain could sprint when he felt like it. Does that mean that he
was a 'sprinter'...?

So F Rod was left off of the team in place of levi? So what? If you think
that he was going to beat betinni yesterday, you're even more of a douchebag
than you let on.


"Al James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > "OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
> >>
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > Bettini won in a break.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected,
a
> sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. The fact that Bettini won in a weird
> two-man break instead of a field sprint or leadout is irrelevant. And he's
> saying, since we knew a sprint-capable cyclist was going to win the gold,
> why the heck didn't Team USA have someone like Fred Rodriguez on the team?
> I gotta agree with the O.P. here. The coaches that made the discretionary
> team picks oughta be taken out to the woodshed.
>
> Al

 

[Al James]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> How stupid do you have to be to call a guy who can win hilly classics,
> win in breakaways, and win just about any race that doesn't have
> finish at the top of a cat II or higher climb a 'sprinter'...?
>
> So F Rod was left off of the team in place of levi? So what? If you
> think that he was going to beat betinni yesterday, you're even more of
> a douchebag than you let on.

OK, OK... I'll wear the 'dumbass' crown for today. I concede Bettini is
not a pure sprinter by any means, but sprinters do win one-day classics,
right? I was willing to give the O.P. some slack in his definition of
"sprinter," I think he/her was using the term loosely to make a larger
point.

No, I'm not saying Fast Freddie woulda beat Bettini. I'm just defending
the O.P. who was saying the USA selection committee's picks were not
optimal for the road coarse in play.


Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> There were no discretionary picks.

Sure there were. I could be mistaken but looking at the automatic
criteria were not Julich, Hincapie and Levi discretionary picks?

Automatic Selection Criteria

1. Winner of Trials (McCartney)
2. Top three finisher in 2003 Worlds in Hamilton (no one qualified here)
3. Top five finisher in a UCI GT (Lance)
4. Top five finisher in a World Cup, 1.HC or 2.HC
5. Top 25 in World Cup standings (no one?)
6. Top 50 in UCI road rankings (Tyler?)

"4. Discretionary Nomination Criteria

If positions remain open after the automatic nominations are exhausted,
additional athletes may be nominated to the team based on USA Cycling
Principles of Discretion (Section II)."

Al

 

[CowPunk]

Another great example of why we shouldn't be sending pros.
They aren't "hungry" for a win. It's just another race
to these guys.

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"CowPunk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Another great example of why we shouldn't be sending pros.
> They aren't "hungry" for a win. It's just another race
> to these guys.

Check the podium quotes.

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

Dude, don't give up that easy, man. Especially 'round here. You'll get a
reputation as a push over and posting will be hell.

"Al James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > How stupid do you have to be to call a guy who can win hilly classics,
> > win in breakaways, and win just about any race that doesn't have
> > finish at the top of a cat II or higher climb a 'sprinter'...?
> >
> > So F Rod was left off of the team in place of levi? So what? If you
> > think that he was going to beat betinni yesterday, you're even more of
> > a douchebag than you let on.
>
> OK, OK... I'll wear the 'dumbass' crown for today. I concede Bettini is
> not a pure sprinter by any means, but sprinters do win one-day classics,
> right? I was willing to give the O.P. some slack in his definition of
> "sprinter," I think he/her was using the term loosely to make a larger
> point.
>
> No, I'm not saying Fast Freddie woulda beat Bettini. I'm just defending
> the O.P. who was saying the USA selection committee's picks were not
> optimal for the road coarse in play.
>
>
> Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > There were no discretionary picks.
>
> Sure there were. I could be mistaken but looking at the automatic
> criteria were not Julich, Hincapie and Levi discretionary picks?
>
> Automatic Selection Criteria
>
> 1. Winner of Trials (McCartney)
> 2. Top three finisher in 2003 Worlds in Hamilton (no one qualified here)
> 3. Top five finisher in a UCI GT (Lance)
> 4. Top five finisher in a World Cup, 1.HC or 2.HC
> 5. Top 25 in World Cup standings (no one?)
> 6. Top 50 in UCI road rankings (Tyler?)
>
> "4. Discretionary Nomination Criteria
>
> If positions remain open after the automatic nominations are exhausted,
> additional athletes may be nominated to the team based on USA Cycling
> Principles of Discretion (Section II)."
>
> Al

 

[Sonarrat]

in article [email protected], Al James at
[email protected] wrote on 8/15/04 10:12 AM:

> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> How stupid do you have to be to call a guy who can win hilly classics,
>> win in breakaways, and win just about any race that doesn't have
>> finish at the top of a cat II or higher climb a 'sprinter'...?
>>
>> So F Rod was left off of the team in place of levi? So what? If you
>> think that he was going to beat betinni yesterday, you're even more of
>> a douchebag than you let on.
>
> OK, OK... I'll wear the 'dumbass' crown for today. I concede Bettini is
> not a pure sprinter by any means, but sprinters do win one-day classics,
> right? I was willing to give the O.P. some slack in his definition of
> "sprinter," I think he/her was using the term loosely to make a larger
> point.
>
> No, I'm not saying Fast Freddie woulda beat Bettini. I'm just defending
> the O.P. who was saying the USA selection committee's picks were not
> optimal for the road coarse in play.
>
>
> Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> There were no discretionary picks.
>
> Sure there were. I could be mistaken but looking at the automatic
> criteria were not Julich, Hincapie and Levi discretionary picks?
>
> Automatic Selection Criteria
>
> 1. Winner of Trials (McCartney)
> 2. Top three finisher in 2003 Worlds in Hamilton (no one qualified here)
> 3. Top five finisher in a UCI GT (Lance)
> 4. Top five finisher in a World Cup, 1.HC or 2.HC

This is the key one. Levi, Tyler, George and Bobby all qualified here.
Here's how:

George Hincapie: 4th in Gent-Wevelgem (1.HC), 5th in Paris-Nice (2.HC)
Tyler Hamilton: 1st in Tour de Romandie (2.HC), 2nd in Dauphiné Libéré
(2.HC)
Bobby Julich: 2nd in Paris-Nice (2.HC), 4th in Vuelta al Pais Vasco (2.HC)
Levi Leipheimer: 5th in Vuelta al Pais Vasco (2.HC)

Freddy has no comparable results, so he was really in a powerless position
when it came to the Olympics. If he had convinced his team to target
Gent-Wevelgem, a race in which he finished 2nd in 2002, then he could
certainly have made the selection.

> 5. Top 25 in World Cup standings (no one?)

Hincapie.

> 6. Top 50 in UCI road rankings (Tyler?)

Doesn't matter because by this point all five have been selected.

> "4. Discretionary Nomination Criteria
>
> If positions remain open after the automatic nominations are exhausted,
> additional athletes may be nominated to the team based on USA Cycling
> Principles of Discretion (Section II)."
>
> Al

 

[Amit]

Al James <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<0JDTc.6526

>
> Dumbass,
>
> You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected, a
> sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. The fact that Bettini won in a weird
> two-man break instead of a field sprint or leadout is irrelevant. And he's
> saying, since we knew a sprint-capable cyclist was going to win the gold,
> why the heck didn't Team USA have someone like Fred Rodriguez on the team?
> I gotta agree with the O.P. here. The coaches that made the discretionary
> team picks oughta be taken out to the woodshed.


All the riders were selected based on criteria which have been spelled out.

(LL was picked on his victory in Catalunya no ?)

Rodriguez didn't make any of the selection criteria the others did.

If you don't like the selection criteria that's a totally separate issue.

 

[Steven L. Sheffield]

On 08/15/2004 11:12 AM, in article
[email protected], "Al James" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> How stupid do you have to be to call a guy who can win hilly classics,
>> win in breakaways, and win just about any race that doesn't have
>> finish at the top of a cat II or higher climb a 'sprinter'...?
>>
>> So F Rod was left off of the team in place of levi? So what? If you
>> think that he was going to beat betinni yesterday, you're even more of
>> a douchebag than you let on.
>
> OK, OK... I'll wear the 'dumbass' crown for today. I concede Bettini is
> not a pure sprinter by any means, but sprinters do win one-day classics,
> right? I was willing to give the O.P. some slack in his definition of
> "sprinter," I think he/her was using the term loosely to make a larger
> point.
>
> No, I'm not saying Fast Freddie woulda beat Bettini. I'm just defending
> the O.P. who was saying the USA selection committee's picks were not
> optimal for the road coarse in play.
>
>
> Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> There were no discretionary picks.
>
> Sure there were. I could be mistaken but looking at the automatic
> criteria were not Julich, Hincapie and Levi discretionary picks?
>
> Automatic Selection Criteria
>
> 1. Winner of Trials (McCartney)
> 2. Top three finisher in 2003 Worlds in Hamilton (no one qualified here)
> 3. Top five finisher in a UCI GT (Lance)

And Tyler Hamilton, by virtue of his 4th place finish in the 2003 Tour de
France.

> 4. Top five finisher in a World Cup, 1.HC or 2.HC


Which covered Bobby (3rd Paris-Nice 2004), George (5th Paris-Nice 2004), and
Levi (5th Pais-Vasco 2004).


> 5. Top 25 in World Cup standings (no one?)
> 6. Top 50 in UCI road rankings (Tyler?)
>
> "4. Discretionary Nomination Criteria
>
> If positions remain open after the automatic nominations are exhausted,
> additional athletes may be nominated to the team based on USA Cycling
> Principles of Discretion (Section II)."
>
> Al

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Al James" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > "OnThaBeach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> The race went as predicted - The sprinters won.
> >>
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > Bettini won in a break.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> You might want to read OnThaBeach's post again. He's saying, as expected,
a
> sprinter-type cyclist won the gold. The fact that Bettini won in a weird
> two-man break instead of a field sprint or leadout is irrelevant. And he's
> saying, since we knew a sprint-capable cyclist was going to win the gold,
> why the heck didn't Team USA have someone like Fred Rodriguez on the team?
> I gotta agree with the O.P. here. The coaches that made the discretionary
> team picks oughta be taken out to the woodshed.

Dumbass, Bettini isn't a "sprinter type", he's a breakaway in the last 20 km
type.