Why don't mountain bikers get it?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Mike Vandeman, Jun 8, 2003.

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  1. Westie

    Westie Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 10 Jun 2003 11:07:16 -0700, [email protected] (MotorPsycho) wrote:
    >
    > .Passing laws to save the wilderness/environment/wetland/habitat (plug .in your favorite cause
    > here) misses the real issue. . .When one cave man urinates in a stream, there is no problem. When
    > X .billion humans dump their waste in the rivers, it's a problem. . .China has figured out the
    > real problem. We may dislike their .solution, but at least they are addressing the issue. We've
    > still got .our heads burried in the sand. Everywhere you look there are warning .signs, so no one
    > looks anymore. . .It's not the fact that there are bikes in the woods, it's the fact .that there
    > are a lot of bikes in the woods and more every day.
    >
    > BS. Even ONE mountain bike kills animals and plants and drives wildlife
    out of
    > its habitat.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Had a great weekend. Shot two nice Stags Sunday night and didn't even use the mtb bike to drag
    them out. Just popped the 4WD into, um, 4WD and laid waste to a couple of square metres of
    virgin pasture.
    --
    Westie I am working on destroying cow habitat that is off-limits to deer ("bovine habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting nicotine dependence and beer-gut construction.
     


  2. On 20 Jun 2003 14:00:38 -0700, [email protected] (flatlander) wrote:

    .Mike- . .IMHO the major thing you are overlooking in your environmental quest .is that mt. bikers
    play a major role in keeping development and urban .sprawl from invading "natural habitat."

    You've got to be kidding. They have about as much intellectual weight as a flea. "Why don't you want
    this land to be developed?" "Because I want to ride my bikey there."

    Yeah, really persuasive! Not.

    I'll agree that a .single-track trail running through a forest is not pristine. But it .is
    infinitely preferable to having that same stretch of forest paved .over for a mega-mall or
    parking lot.

    Those aren't the only choices, dumdum.

    The fact is that yes, mt. bikes .cause the land they ride on to be altered. However, that land
    then .becomes a part of that biker and the mt. biking community in general. .Most mt. bikers, as
    you have seen, will fight to the death to protect .that part of their community.

    Nonsense. I spent 8 years working on stopping highway construction. NOT ONE mountain biker ever
    showed up at any of those hearings, nor wrote comments. You are LYING, plain and simple.

    A few miles of single-track running .through forest is vastly better that that same strech of
    forest being .leveled and turned into a strip-mall. I think even you can agree to .that. I can
    hear your response now... "but there shouldn't be trails .OR a strip mall." The fact is that in
    order to protect something you .need people who believe in it. If you take all humans out of the
    .forest, than there will be nobody in the future who values it, and .thus none to protect it.

    There are plenty of less selfish people to protect land. Mountain bikers can't.

    Put it this way. Say you get your way and .nobody is allowed to ever go into any wilderness area.
    Look one or .two generations down the road. What motivation will people who have .never experienced
    the wilderness, wildlife, or the peace and sense of .awe that it can inspire, have to keep that
    land protected? None.

    Spoken like a true selfish mountain biker. OTHER people DO work to protect land that they will never
    even see, much less enter.

    .-FlatLander

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  3. On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 03:24:37 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."flatlander" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:[email protected]... .> Mike- .> .> IMHO the major thing you are
    overlooking in your environmental quest .> is that mt. bikers play a major role in keeping
    development and urban .> sprawl from invading "natural habitat." . .Mikey has no "environmental
    quest". Much like the mother that abuses her .children in an effort to get attention for herself,
    Mikey abuses .enviornmental issues in his quest for infamy. . .He is quite mad you know! . .Dashii

    Did you say something?
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  4. On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:26:04 GMT, "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:eek:[email protected]... .> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:59:20 -0700, "Jeff
    Strickland" <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> . .> .> We DO: they are called "roads". I am quite
    familiar with transportation .> .> activists like you who don't have a clue about wildlife issues.
    .> .> .> . .> .Don't have a clue about wildlife issues! Talk about the pot calling the .> .kettle
    black. .> . .> .You are the single most clueless environmetnalist I have ever heard of .... .> .> As
    usual, you conveniently fail to name a single specific. Quote even ONE .false .> statement that I
    have ever made about wildlife! I'm sure that this is the .last .> we will hear of you. . .How about
    the BIG lie below? <G>

    I don't see any lie. Where is it?

    .Dashii . .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure
    habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  5. On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:05:52 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

    . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    .news:eek:[email protected]... .> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:59:20 -0700, "Jeff
    Strickland" <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> . .> .> We DO: they are called "roads". I am quite
    familiar with transportation .> .> activists like you who don't have a clue about wildlife issues.
    .> .> .> . .> .Don't have a clue about wildlife issues! Talk about the pot calling the .> .kettle
    black. .> . .> .You are the single most clueless environmetnalist I have ever heard of .... .> .> As
    usual, you conveniently fail to name a single specific. Quote even ONE .false .> statement that I
    have ever made about wildlife! I'm sure that this is the .last .> we will hear of you. .> === . .I
    have 35 years of experience visiting the areas that you would close to me .in the name of habitat
    protection, and I can say from first hand experience .that in at least one instance the closures
    people like you have won resulted .in an increased burden on the very animals you sought to protect.
    You have .never made a true statement about wildlife, I can't begin to catalog the .false
    statements.

    Then you should have no trouble quoting at least ONE false statement. We are waiting.... :)
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  6. On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:58:06 GMT, "Dante Catoni" <[email protected]> wrote:

    .> .Mike almost everything you eat was alive and killed for your consumption. .So .> .why don't you
    stop eating so that more animals and plants can live? .> .> After you, hypocrite. . .How am I a
    hypocrite?

    Look it up in the dictionary.

    This time try to come up with a big boy answer instead .of calling names with no foundation.
    . .Dante .

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  7. Chip3130

    Chip3130 Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > There are plenty of less selfish people to protect land. Mountain bikers can't.
    >
    > Put it this way. Say you get your way and .nobody is allowed to ever go into any wilderness area.
    > Look one or .two generations down the road. What motivation will people who have .never
    > experienced the wilderness, wildlife, or the peace and sense of .awe that it can inspire, have to
    > keep that land protected? None.

    After following this thread for awhile, I have had to laugh. A couple of things come to mind:

    1) No matter how well meaning Mr. Vandeman is, the fact will remain that his quest to stop
    habitation and use will fail. Why? Because he does not own the land that he wishes to keep from
    everyone else. Never has worked, and never will. We hardly have enough law enforcement personel
    in this country to deal with the rapes, homicides, thefts, and assualts that take place every
    minute. To staff an area hundreds of square miles wide to look for "users of the land," is like
    trying to keep illegal aliens out of the US from Mexico. You can try, but 97% will get through no
    matter what.

    2) Just because you have your Doctorate and have published volumes of text doesn't mean you are
    overly intelligent.

    My .02 cents....
     
  8. Dashi Toshii

    Dashi Toshii Guest

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 20:58:06 GMT, "Dante Catoni" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >
    > .> .Mike almost everything you eat was alive and killed for your
    consumption.
    > .So .> .why don't you stop eating so that more animals and plants can live? .> .> After you,
    > hypocrite. . .How am I a hypocrite?
    >
    > Look it up in the dictionary.

    Mikey only eats road kill and weeds!

    He is quite mad you know!

    Dashii
     
  9. On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 18:19:24 GMT, chip3130 <[email protected]> wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in .news:[email protected]: . .>
    There are plenty of less selfish people to protect land. Mountain .> bikers can't. .> .> Put it this
    way. Say you get your way and .> .nobody is allowed to ever go into any wilderness area. Look one or
    .> .two generations down the road. What motivation will people who have .> .never experienced the
    wilderness, wildlife, or the peace and sense of .> .awe that it can inspire, have to keep that land
    protected? None. . . .After following this thread for awhile, I have had to laugh. A couple of
    .things come to mind: . .1) No matter how well meaning Mr. Vandeman is, the fact will remain that
    .his quest to stop habitation and use will fail. Why? Because he does not .own the land that he
    wishes to keep from everyone else. Never has worked, .and never will. We hardly have enough law
    enforcement personel in this .country to deal with the rapes, homicides, thefts, and assualts that
    take .place every minute. To staff an area hundreds of square miles wide to look .for "users of the
    land," is like trying to keep illegal aliens out of the .US from Mexico. You can try, but 97% will
    get through no matter what.

    Who said anything about "staff"?! Idiot.

    .2) Just because you have your Doctorate and have published volumes of text .doesn't mean you are
    overly intelligent.

    I never said it does. But you can judge by my writing.

    .My .02 cents....

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  10. Chip3130

    Chip3130 Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in

    > To staff an area hundreds of square miles wide to look .for "users of the land," is like trying
    > to keep illegal aliens out of the .US from Mexico. You can try, but 97% will get through no
    > matter what.
    >
    > Who said anything about "staff"?! Idiot.

    Mike, really, how do you propose to stop people from using land? Anti- personel mines or something?
    You will never be able to fill this grandoise idea. I hate to tell you this, but man has walked the
    earth since his inception, and nobody (or grounps of nobodies) will ever stop that.

    > I never said it does. But you can judge by my writing.

    I know you didn't, and yes, we can judege that by your illogical writing. Thus my point. Thanks for
    playing advocate though.
     
  11. Twisties

    Twisties New Member

    Joined:
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    why do u think that you can come onto this site, which is all about cycling, and call one of our members an idiot.

    did you expect everyone to agree with you???

    The computer you are using rite now, is it not running on electricity? Hold on? doesnt most electricity come from burning coal? Yes i am aware of Hydro, Solar, Wind, etc.
    So anyway, what happens when you burn stuff? You get smoke...
    where does the smoke go? up into the atmosphere to join the other gases making the whole in the ozone layer which is above my beloved country.

    So maybe you should start your protest by turning of all the lights off in your house, dont bother using gas ovens etc, its also bad for the environment.

    Why patronise people who are trying to make the world a better place by replacing their car for a bike as their mode of transportation. All this means is they have to leave earlier. they have to deal with other road users yelling at them or trying to scare them while they are in their cars.

    i know that you said mountain bikes, but at least mountain bikes dont need the council to put down concrete paths so that their ride is easier, and wouldnt walking create the same if not more damage to the environment.

    2 bike tyres : 4cm each = 8cm of damage
    2 human feet: 10cm each= 20cm of dmage.


    U r an idiot
     
  12. Twisties says:

    >why do u think that you can come onto this site, which is all about cycling, and call one of our
    >members an idiot.
    >

    Twisties, you're showing your age....... MV has been calling us idiots for years, quite literally,
    and that is the mildest of his descriptions. Do a google search on his postings to this group, if
    you have a couple of days to spare on a high-speed connection.

    Steve
     
  13. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:08:15 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

    [Dashii said:]
    >.He is quite mad you know!

    [to which Mike replied:]
    >Did you say something?

    Thus giving further credence to those who assert that his PhD is as much a figment of his
    imagination as his environmental crusade, and that he never actually graduated kindergarten.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  14. Dashi Toshii

    Dashi Toshii Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:08:15 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > [Dashii said:]
    > >.He is quite mad you know!
    >
    > [to which Mike replied:]
    > >Did you say something?
    >
    > Thus giving further credence to those who assert that his PhD is as much a figment of his
    > imagination as his environmental crusade, and that he never actually graduated kindergarten.
    >
    > Guy

    Actually PhD diploma mills abound on the internet, for a few bucks anyone, even Mickey, can buy
    their "degree"!

    Here is one report on the practice:

    http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/bernadean.html

    Dashii
     
  15. "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:05:52 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >
    > . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > .news:eek:[email protected]... .> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:59:20 -0700, "Jeff
    > Strickland" <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> . .> .> We DO: they are called "roads". I am quite
    > familiar with
    transportation
    > .> .> activists like you who don't have a clue about wildlife issues. .> .> .> . .> .Don't have a
    > clue about wildlife issues! Talk about the pot calling
    the
    > .> .kettle black. .> . .> .You are the single most clueless environmetnalist I have ever heard of
    > .... .> .> As usual, you conveniently fail to name a single specific. Quote even
    ONE
    > .false .> statement that I have ever made about wildlife! I'm sure that this is
    the
    > .last .> we will hear of you. .> === . .I have 35 years of experience visiting the areas that you
    > would close to
    me
    > .in the name of habitat protection, and I can say from first hand
    experience
    > .that in at least one instance the closures people like you have won
    resulted
    > .in an increased burden on the very animals you sought to protect. You
    have
    > .never made a true statement about wildlife, I can't begin to catalog the .false statements.
    >
    > Then you should have no trouble quoting at least ONE false statement. We
    are
    > waiting.... :)

    "All bicycle riders are environemtneal rapests." That, admitteldy, might not be a direct quote, but
    it should suffice as an example of your lies and falsehoods.

    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  16. *Plonk*

    *Plonk* Guest

    I finally understand you. You must be Derek Smart, PhD and all. Don't lie about it either, only Mt.
    Bikers lie.

    *plonk*

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:19:14 GMT, "Dante Catoni" <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >
    > .> BS. Even ONE mountain bike kills animals and plants and drives wildlife .out of .> its habitat.
    > . .Mike almost everything you eat was alive and killed for your consumption.
    So
    > .why don't you stop eating so that more animals and plants can live?
    >
    > After you, hypocrite.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  17. Danny

    Danny Guest

    LMAO... I remember Derek (not so) Smart from the gaming forums years ago.. What a complete
    dickhead.. The first trip in here where I came across Vandeman, that's the first thing I thought..
    but then I thought, naaahhhhh.. gotta be his twin.

    Danny

    "*plonk*" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I finally understand you. You must be Derek Smart, PhD and all. Don't
    lie
    > about it either, only Mt. Bikers lie.
    >
    > *plonk*
    >
    > "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:19:14 GMT, "Dante Catoni" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >
    > > .> BS. Even ONE mountain bike kills animals and plants and drives
    wildlife
    > > .out of .> its habitat. . .Mike almost everything you eat was alive and killed for your
    consumption.
    > So
    > > .why don't you stop eating so that more animals and plants can live?
    > >
    > > After you, hypocrite.
    > > ===
    > > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
    > > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    > >
    > > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  18. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    >
    > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:08:15 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > [Dashii said:]
    > > >.He is quite mad you know!
    > >
    > > [to which Mike replied:]
    > > >Did you say something?
    > >
    > > Thus giving further credence to those who assert that his PhD is as much a figment of his
    > > imagination as his environmental crusade, and that he never actually graduated kindergarten.
    > >
    > > Guy
    >
    > Actually PhD diploma mills abound on the internet, for a few bucks anyone, even Mickey, can buy
    > their "degree"!
    >
    > Here is one report on the practice:
    >
    > http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/bernadean.html
    >
    > Dashii
    >
    >
    >

    I'm pretty sure he went the expensive/time consuming route of getting the most useless and
    irrelevant degree they had kicking around.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  19. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:14:26 -0300, Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'm pretty sure he went the expensive/time consuming route of getting the most useless and
    >irrelevant degree they had kicking around.

    It seems almost appropriate, given that he's a useless irrelevant timewaster :)

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com Advance
    notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
    between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
    the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.
     
  20. The Ogre

    The Ogre Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > I never said it does. But you can judge by my writing.

    Oh yes and many have judged by your writing. In fact in May 1998 you won an award for your inspired
    literary style:

    http://www.lart.com/auk/whiners.html (May 1998 Usenet Kook of the Month and Unabomber Surprise)

    Then just recently your writing got lots of attention from your friends in the sierra club when they
    banned you from holding leadership in the Sierra Club for Breach of Leadership Trust (they even have
    an acronym "BoLT") http://www.sierraclub.org/bod/minutes/2003/me20030307.pdf

    Seeing as how well others have judged you my opinion would just be a footnote.

    -- The Ogre http://ogrehut.net
     
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