Why I like George....

[Tim Mullin]

.....better than Lance.

After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest admission of
what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
great champion in my book.

 

[psycholist]

"Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ....better than Lance.
>
> After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
> the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest admission of
> what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.
>
> Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
> The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
> side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
> simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of
a
> great champion in my book.

Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
he'd done something boneheaded.

As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich is
the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
do it without them.

I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
special person to do a thing like that!

But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
attributing things the media said to Lance himself.

Bob C.

 

[Randy Walton]

Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.

That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > ....better than Lance.
> >
> > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after
making
> > the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest admission of
> > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than
you.
> >
> > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger
knock.
> > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
> > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain
and
> > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark
of
> a
> > great champion in my book.
>
> Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
> heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
> he'd done something boneheaded.
>
> As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where
Lance
> ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
> think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.
>
> I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
> forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich
is
> the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
> gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
> do it without them.
>
> I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
> hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
> heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
> special person to do a thing like that!
>
> But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
> attributing things the media said to Lance himself.
>
> Bob C.
>
>

 

[Sonarrat]

in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
[email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:

> Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
> guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
> his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.
>
> That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

IMO Hincapie is many things:

- one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
- quiet, gracious and humane
- tough and determined
- a killer-good domestique

....He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked to
me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the wrong
breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.

Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he should
be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough. The
key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do things
normally he'd have more success, I think.

-Sonarrat.

 

[Callistus Valerius]

> Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
> The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
> side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
> simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of
a
> great champion in my book.

With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the brake rub
one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny looks.

 

[Randy Walton]

Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

"Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC9F2E19.2E91%[email protected]...
> in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
> [email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:
>
> > Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a
classy
> > guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best.
Perhaps
> > his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.
> >
> > That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!
>
> IMO Hincapie is many things:
>
> - one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
> - quiet, gracious and humane
> - tough and determined
> - a killer-good domestique
>
> ...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked
to
> me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
> started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the
wrong
> breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.
>
> Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
> times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he
should
> be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough.
The
> key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
> racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do
things
> normally he'd have more success, I think.
>
> -Sonarrat.
>

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

 

[trg]

If George and a team mate or two with him, he wouldn't have had to expend
all that energy watching and covering evry serious break. Maybe he wouldn't
have run out of gas or rely on luck to be in the right break at the end.
When I saw Boonen take off without Museeuw, I had the feeling that it was
intended to draw as many suckers as possible.

The rider who impressed me the most was PVP. Impressive effort. Too bad he
ran out of road.


Sonarrat wrote:
> in article cVkec.113233$gA5.1457560@attbi_s03, Randy Walton at
> [email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:
>
>> Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a
>> classy guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his
>> best. Perhaps his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep
>> rooting for him.
>>
>> That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!
>
> IMO Hincapie is many things:
>
> - one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
> - quiet, gracious and humane
> - tough and determined
> - a killer-good domestique
>
> ...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It
> looked to me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the
> attack he started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too
> much in the wrong breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join
> the right one.
>
> Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and
> other times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out
> when he should be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to
> get low enough. The key thing is that he tends to consistently
> choose the wrong one... his racing behavior always seems a bit
> unusual. If he learned how to do things normally he'd have more
> success, I think.
>
> -Sonarrat.

 

[trg]

Callistus Valerius wrote:
> With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
> brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
> looks.

But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...

 

[Randy Walton]

Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
there. This caption says it all...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=raceday/dsc_0091


"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with
him...
>
> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
> 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few
years
> back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
> riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some)
was
> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
> where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
>

 

[Bob Schwartz]

Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
> 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
> back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
> riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
> where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
Backstedt was able to finish it off.

Really, there is no reason to believe that having teammates there would
have made the difference for a guy that doesn't yet appear to have that
special quality to win on a weekend.

Being alone makes it harder, for sure. Backstedt had to read the race
exactly right with no room for error. He might miss it 9 times out of 10,
but he got it right on Sunday and he made it count. We are still waiting
for George.

Bob Schwartz
[email protected]

 

[Robert Chung]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
> first 50km of the race...

He probably would've finished about 8th.

 

[TM]

"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
> > the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,
wondering
> > where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.
>
> I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
> where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
> Backstedt was able to finish it off.

One could reasonably wonder what would have happened had he not tried to
ride away from t-mobile and lotto just as easily as if he had more teamates!

>
We are still waiting
> for George.

He's a good man and should get his big sunday just like mickelson finally
did.

> Bob Schwartz
> [email protected]

 

[Ronaldo Jeremiah]

Tim Mullin <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> ....better than Lance.
>
> After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
> the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest admission of
> what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.
>
> Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
> The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
> side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
> simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
> great champion in my book.

I also like George.

Tha may come as a surprise, given how hard I have been on him in this
newsgroup. But really, when I do that, it's not as much him I'm
making fun of as the people who think that he is the American Museeuw.

As I was out riding yesterday I was thinking how unexpectedly cool it
would be if I got on the computer and found out he'd won. Then I
reminded myself that wouldn't happen. And it didn't.

-RJ

 

[Tim Mullin]

"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
> heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
> he'd done something boneheaded.
>
> As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
> ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
> think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.

 

[benjo maso]

"Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
> > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ...
admitting
> > he'd done something boneheaded.
> >
> > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where
Lance
> > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But
I
> > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.
>
> You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
> poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
> reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
> boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
> In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
> something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
> the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
> it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.


When Gino Bartali lost a few minutes to Robic and Coppi in the first
mountain stage of the Tour of '49 because of serious stomach troubles, a
journalist said to him: "But it wasn't your own fault, you were sick".
Bartali answered: "Of course it was my own fault. When a rider gets sick, it
means his preparation wasn't good enough".

Benjo Maso

 

[Charles Hizark]

Tim Mullin <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> ....better than Lance.
>
> After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
> the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest admission of
> what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

George is very dedicated classic's and domestique rider. George
conducts himeslf in a very professional manner as well. George is the
type of rider who can win a few stages and the occasional classic. As
for Paris-Roubaix, something always seems to trip George up for some
reason.
>
> Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
> The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
> side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
> simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
> great champion in my book.

 

[trg]

Unless there's an obvious physical advantage, the difference between a five
time champ and a 5 time runnerup is that the champ thinks he's the best and
it's his to loose. Maybe it makes us feel better to see a loser play nice,
but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us what he feels and
believes than the usual sports cliche pap.



Tim Mullin wrote:
> "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid?
>> When I heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing
>> ... admitting he'd done something boneheaded.
>>
>> As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me
>> where Lance ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The
>> media said it. But I think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.
>
> You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
> poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
> reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
> boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
> In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
> something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
> the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
> it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.

 

[karlwithak]

I hear what you are saying about excuses but Eddy the greatest of all
time had alot of them the few times he got his ass kicked.











trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Callistus Valerius wrote:
> > With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
> > brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
> > looks.
>
> But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...

 

[Nev Shea]

"Randy Walton" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:Y%wec.19716$wP1.38863@attbi_s54:

> Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
> there. This caption says it all...
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=rac
> eday/dsc_0091

Actually, it only tells us about George -- to really say it all, you
would need similar photos for, say, the first 4 guys who rode into the
velodrome with comments about their teammates.

> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with
> him...
>>
>> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
>> first 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video
>> a few
> years
>> back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF,
>> including riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road,
>> and then some)
> was
>> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,
>> wondering where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.


I didn't see that video. Was it filmed the year George went head first
into the ditch, and his helper Boonen had to go on and take George's spot
on the podium? Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates
with him that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about
30 k to go? I recall Frankie being UP the road then.

Hey, I like George too and wish him the best of luck, but I think you're
going overboard in making excuses or trying to stack the deck in his
favor.

NS