Why I like George....

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Tim Mullin, Apr 11, 2004.

  1. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    .....better than Lance.

    After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
    the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of
    what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.

    Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
    The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
    simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
    great champion in my book.
     
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  2. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > ....better than Lance.
    >
    > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
    > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of
    > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.
    >
    > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
    > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
    > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of

    a
    > great champion in my book.


    Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
    heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
    he'd done something boneheaded.

    As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
    ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
    think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

    I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
    forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich is
    the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
    gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
    do it without them.

    I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
    hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
    heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
    special person to do a thing like that!

    But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
    attributing things the media said to Lance himself.

    Bob C.
     
  3. Randy Walton

    Randy Walton Guest

    Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
    guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
    his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.

    That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > ....better than Lance.
    > >
    > > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after

    making
    > > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of
    > > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than

    you.
    > >
    > > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger

    knock.
    > > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    > > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain

    and
    > > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark

    of
    > a
    > > great champion in my book.

    >
    > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
    > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
    > he'd done something boneheaded.
    >
    > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where

    Lance
    > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
    > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.
    >
    > I don't think graciousness comes naturally to Lance. It always seems
    > forced. But I think he says the right thing. He's always saying Ullrich

    is
    > the better rider ... though Lance has beaten him repeatedly. He always
    > gives credit to the strength of his team and acknowledges that he couldn't
    > do it without them.
    >
    > I like George, too. You wanna talk gracious ... he called me in the
    > hospital after I got hit by a car. He didn't know me from Adam, but he
    > heard about me getting creamed, and he called. It blew me away. What a
    > special person to do a thing like that!
    >
    > But I think you're dissing Lance for stuff he never said and you're
    > attributing things the media said to Lance himself.
    >
    > Bob C.
    >
    >
     
  4. Sonarrat

    Sonarrat Guest

    in article [email protected]_s03, Randy Walton at
    [email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:

    > Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a classy
    > guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best. Perhaps
    > his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.
    >
    > That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!


    IMO Hincapie is many things:

    - one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
    - quiet, gracious and humane
    - tough and determined
    - a killer-good domestique

    ....He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked to
    me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
    started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the wrong
    breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.

    Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
    times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he should
    be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough. The
    key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
    racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do things
    normally he'd have more success, I think.

    -Sonarrat.
     
  5. > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
    > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
    > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of

    a
    > great champion in my book.


    With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the brake rub
    one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny looks.
     
  6. Randy Walton

    Randy Walton Guest

    Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

    "Sonarrat" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BC9F2E19.2E91%[email protected]
    > in article [email protected]_s03, Randy Walton at
    > [email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:
    >
    > > Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a

    classy
    > > guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his best.

    Perhaps
    > > his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep rooting for him.
    > >
    > > That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

    >
    > IMO Hincapie is many things:
    >
    > - one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
    > - quiet, gracious and humane
    > - tough and determined
    > - a killer-good domestique
    >
    > ...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It looked

    to
    > me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the attack he
    > started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too much in the

    wrong
    > breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join the right one.
    >
    > Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and other
    > times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out when he

    should
    > be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to get low enough.

    The
    > key thing is that he tends to consistently choose the wrong one... his
    > racing behavior always seems a bit unusual. If he learned how to do

    things
    > normally he'd have more success, I think.
    >
    > -Sonarrat.
    >
     
  7. > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with him...

    Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
    50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
    back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
    riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
    the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
    where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  8. trg

    trg Guest

    If George and a team mate or two with him, he wouldn't have had to expend
    all that energy watching and covering evry serious break. Maybe he wouldn't
    have run out of gas or rely on luck to be in the right break at the end.
    When I saw Boonen take off without Museeuw, I had the feeling that it was
    intended to draw as many suckers as possible.

    The rider who impressed me the most was PVP. Impressive effort. Too bad he
    ran out of road.


    Sonarrat wrote:
    > in article [email protected]_s03, Randy Walton at
    > [email protected] wrote on 4/11/04 4:54 PM:
    >
    >> Thanks for sharing that comment! George always has struck me as a
    >> classy guy from humble beginnings who quietly goes out and does his
    >> best. Perhaps his best is not as good as it should be but I'll keep
    >> rooting for him.
    >>
    >> That's a great story about him calling you. Nice!

    >
    > IMO Hincapie is many things:
    >
    > - one of the most handsome guys in the peloton
    > - quiet, gracious and humane
    > - tough and determined
    > - a killer-good domestique
    >
    > ...He's just not there yet, in terms of winning the classics. It
    > looked to me like he lost RvV because he didn't commit himself to the
    > attack he started, and he lost Paris-Roubaix because he invested too
    > much in the wrong breakaway, then didn't have anything left to join
    > the right one.
    >
    > Sometimes he's not willing enough to take charge when he should, and
    > other times he's too eager to assert himself and burns himself out
    > when he should be reserving himself and waiting for the km markers to
    > get low enough. The key thing is that he tends to consistently
    > choose the wrong one... his racing behavior always seems a bit
    > unusual. If he learned how to do things normally he'd have more
    > success, I think.
    >
    > -Sonarrat.
     
  9. trg

    trg Guest

    Callistus Valerius wrote:
    > With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
    > brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
    > looks.


    But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...
     
  10. Randy Walton

    Randy Walton Guest

    Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
    there. This caption says it all...
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=raceday/dsc_0091


    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with

    him...
    >
    > Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
    > 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few

    years
    > back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
    > riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some)

    was
    > the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
    > where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
     
  11. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the first
    > 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video a few years
    > back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF, including
    > riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road, and then some) was
    > the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio, wondering
    > where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.


    I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
    where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
    Backstedt was able to finish it off.

    Really, there is no reason to believe that having teammates there would
    have made the difference for a guy that doesn't yet appear to have that
    special quality to win on a weekend.

    Being alone makes it harder, for sure. Backstedt had to read the race
    exactly right with no room for error. He might miss it 9 times out of 10,
    but he got it right on Sunday and he made it count. We are still waiting
    for George.

    Bob Schwartz
    [email protected]
     
  12. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
    > Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
    > first 50km of the race...


    He probably would've finished about 8th.
     
  13. TM

    TM Guest

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Mike Jacoubowsky <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,

    wondering
    > > where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.

    >
    > I like George too. But this stuff rings particularly hollow after a race
    > where guys like Hammond and Backstedt did just fine with no teammates and
    > Backstedt was able to finish it off.


    One could reasonably wonder what would have happened had he not tried to
    ride away from t-mobile and lotto just as easily as if he had more teamates!

    >

    We are still waiting
    > for George.


    He's a good man and should get his big sunday just like mickelson finally
    did.

    > Bob Schwartz
    > [email protected]
     
  14. Tim Mullin <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ....better than Lance.
    >
    > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
    > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of
    > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.
    >
    > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
    > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
    > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
    > great champion in my book.


    I also like George.

    Tha may come as a surprise, given how hard I have been on him in this
    newsgroup. But really, when I do that, it's not as much him I'm
    making fun of as the people who think that he is the American Museeuw.

    As I was out riding yesterday I was thinking how unexpectedly cool it
    would be if I got on the computer and found out he'd won. Then I
    reminded myself that wouldn't happen. And it didn't.

    -RJ
     
  15. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
    > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ... admitting
    > he'd done something boneheaded.
    >
    > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where Lance
    > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But I
    > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.


    You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
    poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
    reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
    boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
    In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
    something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
    the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
    it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.
     
  16. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid? When I
    > > heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing ...

    admitting
    > > he'd done something boneheaded.
    > >
    > > As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me where

    Lance
    > > ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The media said it. But

    I
    > > think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

    >
    > You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
    > poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
    > reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
    > boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
    > In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
    > something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
    > the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
    > it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.



    When Gino Bartali lost a few minutes to Robic and Coppi in the first
    mountain stage of the Tour of '49 because of serious stomach troubles, a
    journalist said to him: "But it wasn't your own fault, you were sick".
    Bartali answered: "Of course it was my own fault. When a rider gets sick, it
    means his preparation wasn't good enough".

    Benjo Maso
     
  17. Tim Mullin <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ....better than Lance.
    >
    > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after making
    > the break with Museeuw. No bullshit excuses, just an honest admission of
    > what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just faster than you.


    George is very dedicated classic's and domestique rider. George
    conducts himeslf in a very professional manner as well. George is the
    type of rider who can win a few stages and the occasional classic. As
    for Paris-Roubaix, something always seems to trip George up for some
    reason.
    >
    > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger knock.
    > The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it seems, this
    > side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit that--plain and
    > simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race? Not the hallmark of a
    > great champion in my book.
     
  18. trg

    trg Guest

    Unless there's an obvious physical advantage, the difference between a five
    time champ and a 5 time runnerup is that the champ thinks he's the best and
    it's his to loose. Maybe it makes us feel better to see a loser play nice,
    but it's hypocritical. I'd rather the guy tells us what he feels and
    believes than the usual sports cliche pap.



    Tim Mullin wrote:
    > "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >> Isn't a hunger knock an admission that you did something stupid?
    >> When I heard him talk about it, I thought that's what he was doing
    >> ... admitting he'd done something boneheaded.
    >>
    >> As for "the other guy warmed up in air conditioning" ... show me
    >> where Lance ever said that. Paul Sherwin and Phil said it. The
    >> media said it. But I think you're putting words into Lance's mouth.

    >
    > You're right on this point, but Armstrong and Carmichael did blame the
    > poor performance on dehydration (see lancearmstrong.com for
    > reference). Hunger knock, as you said, admitting he'd done something
    > boneheaded. The same for dehydration. The same for the rubbing brake.
    > In each case, Lance, in effect, is saying, "He didn't beat me I did
    > something stupid and beat myself." Whether intentional or not, it has
    > the effect of deminishing the winner's accomplishment. It's petty,
    > it's sad, and it says a great deal about Armstrong's character.
     
  19. karlwithak

    karlwithak Guest

    I hear what you are saying about excuses but Eddy the greatest of all
    time had alot of them the few times he got his ass kicked.











    trg" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Callistus Valerius wrote:
    > > With Lance's book of excuses, I couldn't believe he used the
    > > brake rub one. If I used that one on a Fred ride, I'd get funny
    > > looks.

    >
    > But then, you get funny looks just walking down the street...
     
  20. Nev Shea

    Nev Shea Guest

    "Randy Walton" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:Y%[email protected]_s54:

    > Good point. I would have expected Cruz or Van Heeswijk to at least be
    > there. This caption says it all...
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2004/apr04/roubaix04/index.php?id=rac
    > eday/dsc_0091


    Actually, it only tells us about George -- to really say it all, you
    would need similar photos for, say, the first 4 guys who rode into the
    velodrome with comments about their teammates.

    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> > Kinda makes you wonder what someone like Bjarne Riis could do with

    > him...
    >>
    >> Or how he might do if he had a team mate (or two) somewhere past the
    >> first 50km of the race... The most striking thing in that Nike video
    >> a few

    > years
    >> back (the one that focused on Lance's preparation for the TDF,
    >> including riding up that mountain until the snow blocked the road,
    >> and then some)

    > was
    >> the Paris Roubaix coverage, where George is heard on the radio,
    >> wondering where his guys were, asking for a bit of help.



    I didn't see that video. Was it filmed the year George went head first
    into the ditch, and his helper Boonen had to go on and take George's spot
    on the podium? Oh, and I can't recall, but didn't George have teammates
    with him that day when Johann just motored away from them all with about
    30 k to go? I recall Frankie being UP the road then.

    Hey, I like George too and wish him the best of luck, but I think you're
    going overboard in making excuses or trying to stack the deck in his
    favor.

    NS
     
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