Why I like George....



(concatenated your two messages)


> Actually that's even worse. Sonarrat hasn't been a troll that I've
> noticed and usually had something to say that you would want to
> read. Pot shots at Lance are a bit "in" aren't they? I'm actually
> not a great Lance fan because he's too mechanical for my tastes. But
> a winner is a winner and someone telling us that he'd rather a bunch
> of also-rans won is pretty unreal. Let's face it, there were plenty
> of the "Anyone but Merckx" crowd during Eddy's day.


I'm not trolling, because I believe what I say; I don't think "a winner
is a winner," no matter how you look at it. In particular, from the
spectator's point of view, we're just in it for the entertainment and
catharsis. That's what spectator sports are about. If you're in it to
be an analyst, well, you ought to be making money off of it.

Catharsis comes from uncertainty, revelation... now the '03 Vuelta was
incredibly exciting, because on the one hand, you had Isidro Nozal
putting a minute and a half into David Millar, and on the other, you had
Alejandro Valverde scaring the living hell out of everyone. Then
finally, Roberto Heras turned the race sideways and though it was
anticlimactic because the underdog didn't win, it was incredible to
watch Heras flying up that mountain.

There was plenty of catharsis in the '03 Tour, too, but Lance only
contributed to it himself in terms of almost losing. (This was true
whether you are a fan of his or not, by the way.)

> My appologies to Sonarrat if I misunderstood his postings. But the
> anti-Lance talk does get as boring as Brian Lafferty's "Every pro is a
> doper".


That's my point!!!!! Once his career ends, hopefully, the Lance talk
will, too! And hopefully nobody else will win it 5 times for a long
while to come, because variety keeps the sport interesting.

-Sonarrat.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Other Jeff Jones <[email protected]> wrote:

> Jeff Jones wrote:


> > I'm sure we can come up with some better
> > demarcation than this though. I had no problem with Sonarrat.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Jeff (the other other Jeff Jones)

>
> I'm sure that we can come to some kind of an agreement. Perhaps I can
> switch back to Sonarrat, and you can see if you can get me an internship
> over the summer. I don't eat much. (Only half joking.)
>
> Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since you don't
> agree, I'll change back after sending this message.


Well, you could by "OJJ", but then I'd eventually ask you how the search
for the real killers is going.

--
tanx,
Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Other Jeff Jones) wrote:

> Here are some examples of ideal situations:
>
> Joseba Beloki DNS, Sylvain Chavanel takes up the mantle and wins.


Maybe in a couple-three years for Chavanel.

> Iban Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia 1-2 in Paris, or vice versa.


The first choice would be fine with me.

> Christophe Moreau finally comes out of his shell.


And...?

> Bobby Julich finally lives up to his potential.


He may have already done that in '98 (though he is riding pretty well
this year).

> Levi Leipheimer redeems.


S&H Green Stamps.

> Tyler Hamilton puts in a thrilling solo attack into Paris and beats
> Ullrich on the last day.


And the whole peloton beats him to a pulp for attacking on the last day.

> Roberto Heras beats his former team leader into the ground, with the
> help of Christian Vandevelde and Isidro Nozal.


You are talking about the Tour, right? (Though I'd be thrilled to see
Heras do really well at the Tour...)

How about adding Basso in this somewhere?

>
> Here are some examples of bad outcomes:
>
> Lance Armstrong breaks the record and we all suffer through one more
> year of Krispy Kreme trolls on rec.bicycles.racing.
> Jan Ullrich comes back from crashing his drunk ass into a bike rack
> and repeats his 1997 victory, having won nothing else the entire
> season.


--
tanx,
Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Here are some examples of ideal situations:
> >
> > Joseba Beloki DNS, Sylvain Chavanel takes up the mantle and wins.

> Maybe in a couple-three years for Chavanel.


Sure. It would be a nice surprise, though, and the French would be
thrilled. So would I.

> > Iban Mayo and Haimar Zubeldia 1-2 in Paris, or vice versa.

> The first choice would be fine with me.


Zubeldia has been alarmingly off form so far this season, though, so
Mayo may be a more realistic pick.

> > Christophe Moreau finally comes out of his shell.

> And...?


And Lance punctures on the shell. ;)

> > Bobby Julich finally lives up to his potential.

> He may have already done that in '98 (though he is riding pretty well
> this year).


Could be.

> > Tyler Hamilton puts in a thrilling solo attack into Paris and beats
> > Ullrich on the last day.

> And the whole peloton beats him to a pulp for attacking on the last day.


And that's not exciting? ;)

> > Roberto Heras beats his former team leader into the ground, with the
> > help of Christian Vandevelde and Isidro Nozal.

> You are talking about the Tour, right? (Though I'd be thrilled to see
> Heras do really well at the Tour...)


Yes. How often have you seen Heras pacing Armstrong, and he has to go up
to Heras and tell him to slow down?

> How about adding Basso in this somewhere?


Why not? He's good enough. Or how about Vinokourov vs. Ullrich - one of
them says the wrong thing and they get turned against each other? Or
maybe Dario Frigo will make something happen? Or maybe Gilberto Simoni
manages to do the double?

My point is, there are a lot of better things that could happen than
Armstrong's 6th.

-Sonarrat.
 
John Everett <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their race results,
> like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their interview technique that
> truly defines them.


Dude, there is a difference between winning a whole lot and being a great
champion. It's a subjective thing, to be sure, and I believe an athlete's
character is part of the equation. By your way of thinking Mike Tyson is in
the same league as Muhammad Ali. That's ****ed up....
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Other Jeff Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Jeff Jones wrote:

>
> > > I'm sure we can come up with some better
> > > demarcation than this though. I had no problem with Sonarrat.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Jeff (the other other Jeff Jones)

> >
> > I'm sure that we can come to some kind of an agreement. Perhaps I can
> > switch back to Sonarrat, and you can see if you can get me an internship
> > over the summer. I don't eat much. (Only half joking.)
> >
> > Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since you don't
> > agree, I'll change back after sending this message.

>
> Well, you could by "OJJ", but then I'd eventually ask you how the search
> for the real killers is going.


We could both use our middle initials...

He could put Ph.D. after his name, and I could put Mus.D... (but that's
still 10 years off.)

Or he could adopt me, and then I'd be Jeff Jones, Jr...

Or I could just post as Jeff Jones and let the poor newbies figure out
who is who the hard way.

(;

-Sonarrat.
 
peterwright <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> A winner never admits they were beaten by a better man - that would be
> facing the fact that someone out there is better than you. A winner
> who loses just got unlucky on the day...there is no one better.


You have got to stop reading those Tony Robbins books.
 
Tim Mullin wrote:
> ....better than Lance.
>
> After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after
> making the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest
> admission of what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just
> faster than you.
>
> Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger
> knock. The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it
> seems, this side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit
> that--plain and simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race?
> Not the hallmark of a great champion in my book.


Yeah, the other George is showing how to give full props to your opponent.
The other George made no mistakes, he did everything anyone could possibly
do. Not only does he himself refuse to examine whether any mistakes were
made, he doesn't want anyone else to examine it either.

QUESTION: You've looked back before 9-11 for what mistakes might have
been made. After 9-11, what would your biggest mistake be, would you say,
and what lessons have learned from it?
BUSH: I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I
could plan for it.

John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he could've done
it better this way or that way. You know, I just -- I'm sure something
will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all
the pressure of trying to come up with answer, but it hadn't yet.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tim Mullin wrote:
> > ....better than Lance.
> >
> > After today's PR, Hincape admits he just didn't have the legs after
> > making the break with Museeuw. No ******** excuses, just an honest
> > admission of what every cyclist knows--some days the other guy is just
> > faster than you.
> >
> > Lance, on the other hand, always seems to have an excuse. A hunger
> > knock. The other guy warmed up in air conditioning. Everything, it
> > seems, this side of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Why can't he admit
> > that--plain and simple--on that day the other guy rode a better race?
> > Not the hallmark of a great champion in my book.

>
> Yeah, the other George is showing how to give full props to your opponent.
> The other George made no mistakes, he did everything anyone could possibly
> do. Not only does he himself refuse to examine whether any mistakes were
> made, he doesn't want anyone else to examine it either.
>
> QUESTION: You've looked back before 9-11 for what mistakes might have
> been made. After 9-11, what would your biggest mistake be, would you say,
> and what lessons have learned from it?
> BUSH: I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I
> could plan for it.
>
> John, I'm sure historians will look back and say, gosh, he could've done
> it better this way or that way. You know, I just -- I'm sure something
> will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all
> the pressure of trying to come up with answer, but it hadn't yet.


The other Condi doesn't have that problem:
http://www.threetwoone.org/uggabugga/2004/rice-babble.gif

--
tanx,
Howard

Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Jeff Jones wrote:
>
> "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > what is jeff a doctor of?
> >

> chem (please, spare the jokes). It was actually a combined
> theoretical/physical degree on modelling coal combustion. Brown coal looks
> great in a miniskirt. I spent a lot of time reading Cyclingnews instead of
> doing experiments. I had no idea it how it would influence my career :)


yay for boring experiments!
just being silly, but i hope you know what i mean.

i remember when i was at school, i realized i would never make it past
the undergraduate level when i was reading about some smartie and it
said something like "along with pursuing a doctorate in theoretical and
physical chemistry, jeff also is a competitive amateur cyclist, enjoys
photography, and has recently written a detailed history of the cobbled
climbs in belgium in his spare time..."
(ok, i so made stuff up, but i'm sure it would have read something
like that :)

heather
 
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:13:25 GMT, Tim Mullin <[email protected]>
wrote:

>John Everett <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Well of course! Great champions are not defined by their race results,
>> like winning five TdFs in a row. It's their interview technique that
>> truly defines them.

>
>Dude, there is a difference between winning a whole lot and being a great
>champion. It's a subjective thing, to be sure, and I believe an athlete's
>character is part of the equation. By your way of thinking Mike Tyson is in
>the same league as Muhammad Ali. That's ****ed up....


Comparing their respective records, personalities aside, it's clear
Ali was a greater champion than Tyson. That's my way of thinking.


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
 
John Everett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Comparing their respective records, personalities aside, it's clear
> Ali was a greater champion than Tyson. That's my way of thinking.


Huh? Ali went 56-5, winning 91% of this fights. Tyson's record stands
at 50-4, which is--if I figured this right--92%. That not very clear
thinking at all. Hell, by your reasoning, Wladimir Klitschko, who has
never a champion as a pro, but with a 42-3 record is better than both
of them. WTF?
 
Ewoud Dronkert wrote:


> He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the original JJ
> should finally start calling himself Dr. Jones..?


Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?
 
"Other Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since you don't
> agree, I'll change back after sending this message.
>

I don't really mind - it's your name too after all! It'll create endless
confusion in this newsgroup, if that's at all possible :)

As for work, I could certainly use another one of me around here sometimes
so I can slope off down to the pub.

Jeff
p.s. in no way associated with the actor
p.p.s. I could put "failed A. Mus." after my name
 
On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:37:42 +1200, Stewart Fleming wrote:
>> He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the original JJ
>> should finally start calling himself Dr. Jones..?

>
> Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?


Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard ****?
 
"Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:37:42 +1200, Stewart Fleming wrote:
> >> He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the original JJ
> >> should finally start calling himself Dr. Jones..?

> >
> > Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

>
> Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard ****?


Hehe. Friends used to quote Dr. Belloq at me during races.
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...


> > On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:37:42 +1200, Stewart Fleming wrote:


> > >> He really is called Jeff Jones (aka Sonarrat). Maybe the original JJ
> > >> should finally start calling himself Dr. Jones..?
> > > Nullarbor Jones and the Road to Hell?

> > Flandria Jones and the Riders of the Lard ****?

> Hehe. Friends used to quote Dr. Belloq at me during races.


Better than quoting Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

-Sonarrat.
 
"Jeff Jones" <jeff@cyclingnews-punt-com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Other Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...


> > Nah, I just thought it would be funny to do this. Since you don't
> > agree, I'll change back after sending this message.


> I don't really mind - it's your name too after all! It'll create endless
> confusion in this newsgroup, if that's at all possible :)


Sonarrat is fine, even if it is a name from my fantasy life rather
than from my human existence. (Benjo should know what I'm talking
about.)

> As for work, I could certainly use another one of me around here sometimes
> so I can slope off down to the pub.


I have no problem with that. BTW, I also took four years of French
and I still speak it fairly easily, though my vocabulary needs work.

> Jeff
> p.s. in no way associated with the actor


Studied acting in London, played King Leopold II in Amadeus, played
Principal Rooney in Ferris, then was charged as a child molester tied
to Paul Reubens. What a waste. There was also a rather obscure
electronic composer with the same name...

> p.p.s. I could put "failed A. Mus." after my name


A. Mus? You mean community college?

-Sonarrat.,