Why is road biking so hard?

[Robin Hubert]

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:33:58 -0500, Steve B wrote:
> >
> > > **Why is road biking so hard, and how do I make it easier?**
> >
> > The cheesy answer would be to ride more.
> > >
> > > Granted, I am getting back down to my fighting weight, but I am wondering if I can change my
> > > gearing to make it a little easier. I've got a two-ring set up with a 52 and a 39. It's a nine
> > > speed Ultegra
set
> > > up.
> > >
> > > Can I make the second ring smaller for climbing?
> >
> > Look at the bolts. You can get a 38 to fit. BFD. There are three options:
> >
> > 1) get a wider cassette
> > 2) get a crankset with a smaller bolt circle, so you can use a smaller inner ring
> > 3) Get a triple.
> >
> > A Shimano-type mountain-bike crankset will probably work well. You can leave the granny off and
> > use it as a double. But you would want to get
a
> > bigger big ring. These should be available, but maybe not from Shimano.
> >
> > I don't know whether your Dura-Ace shifter works for triples, but it's easy to see by trying for
> > that second shift.
> >
> > If so, how small
> > > should I make it? WIll this affect my shifting?
> >
> > Not badly. It works better with Campy, since they aren't so fussy as Shimano with the front
> > shifter, but a compatible crankset should work.
> >
> > > I live in Berkeley, so I've got lots of hills and climbs. Up and
down.
> >
> > I used to live there. Great hills for riding. I can't believe that I rode all over there with my
> > old bike: 52/42 crankset, 14-18 cluster. But that was a few (like 30+) years ago.
> >
>
>
> Knees, we don't need no stinkin' knees! Straight block or nothing dammit!
>

A straight block is nice. I've got one (well, close to it) on my commuter with a mtb triple
(26/36/48 x 13-21 7sp). Lotsa range and nice close steps.

Robin Hubert

 

[D.Putnam]

I think a new cassette and derailleur would cost almost the same as a triple crankset. Since the
bike is almost new (?) he could work out some kind of exchange with the shop.

 

[Ronald]

> Since the bike is almost new (?)

It's a used bike.

"D.Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think a new cassette and derailleur would cost almost the same as a
triple
> crankset. Since the bike is almost new (?) he could work out some kind of exchange with the shop.

 

[Ajames54]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:00:41 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Why complicate things for the poor fella? Cadence features on computers are just a distraction and
>no-one needs them. BTW, what's Jobst's hill-climbing cadence? I even wonder if he knows ....
>
Sure forget technique...just throw more money at the issue... so what if it never gets any better...
you sound like the perfect target for all the bike mags...
>
>And how do you "know" what the best cadence is, for anyone but yourself?
>
> Robin Hubert

Gee ...did I say I knew? ... NO? in fact I simply suggested a target and even then I suggested I
might be way off. If you don't care to listen then fine, I don't really give a rats...

 

[Mike S.]

"D.Putnam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> I think a new cassette and derailleur would cost almost the same as a
triple
> crankset. Since the bike is almost new (?) he could work out some kind of exchange with the shop.
>
How do you figure that a $60 cassette, and a $50 rear derailleur is doing to be less expensive than
a new BB ($40) and a new crankset ($110) and possibly a new left shifter ($90)? This doesn't include
the difference in labor.

Mike

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:33:51 +0100, "Robert Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'd recommend to do what I did which was to swap my 53 our for a 50 (since the 53 was rarely
>put to good use) and to use an XT rd with an 11-30 cassette. Now I find I use both chainrings
>about equally and have a lot of room on the lower end for hills. Ebay was really helpful in
>doing this cheaply.
>
>Rob Strickland

I'm not so sure you needed the XT derailleur. I really can't spin out the 12 much anymore and have
mostly 13t small rings. I think if I could turn over the 11, I could turn over something smaller
than a 30 with the 39 to go uphill.

My recent diversion to 46x34 rings and 12/25 cassettes has been nothing but favorable. My usual
53/39 and 13/26 is used almost all the time but on mountainous, long rides, I needed more.

 

[Robin Hubert]

Reminds me of a newspaper comic I saw once ...

"Life is so hard ... it's breathe, breathe, breathe, all the time!"

 

[Paul Kopit]

On 17 Feb 2003 19:33:58 -0800, [email protected] (Steve B) wrote:

>**Why is road biking so hard, and how do I make it easier?**
>
>Granted, I am getting back down to my fighting weight, but I am wondering if I can change my
>gearing to make it a little easier. I've got a two-ring set up with a 52 and a 39. It's a nine
>speed Ultegra set up.
>
>Can I make the second ring smaller for climbing? If so, how small should I make it? WIll this
>affect my shifting? Can I add a third ring? Based on posts, this seems hard and expensive. ANy
>other ideas? Get in shape and lose some pounds?
>
>I live in Berkeley, so I've got lots of hills and climbs. Up and down.

You've already learned something valuable. In the beginning, cycling is hard. You don't become a
cyclist 'til you get a bit past the hard part. I like to use the example of learning to play tennis.
In the beginning, the exercise is picking up balls and it takes a while before you are playing. The
golfing novice works a lot harder to play than an intermediate player.

Suffer a while longer and get stronger and smaller. Stand up and push hard. It doesn't take long
before the same hill is not so difficult.

Later, buy a cogset with larger cogs. Sheldon Brown sells a 13/30 and you can likely use your
existing rear derailleur.

For recreational cycling, don't get tempted to get a drivetrain where you air pedal to get
up grades.

 

[Terry Morse]

D.Putnam wrote:

> I think a new cassette and derailleur would cost almost the same as a triple crankset. Since the
> bike is almost new (?) he could work out some kind of exchange with the shop.

Changing to a triple crankset requires new shifter, bottom bracket, and very likely front and rear
derailleurs. That costs considerably more than a new cassette and (possibly) rear derailleur. For
example, Performance sells a Dura-Ace triple upgrade kit for $700. By contrast, a new cassette and
XT derailleur costs a little over $100.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

 

[Steve B]

Hey,

Thanks for all of the advice. Some great, some really bitter, some really cryptic! (ie next time you
need some milk for nutrition, or a new sweater to keep warm, just make due with what you have. water
or flesh should do the trick if you can just commit to being less of a consumer...)

Seriously though, some good suggestions. A couple of follow up questions and comments:

1) I can't take the bike back to change the gearing because I bought it used. It's a 1999 LeMond. I
did this in an effort to be less of a conspicuous consumer. And I'm unemployed. I did, however,
get a great deal on the bike (I think), $725. Which is why I am not afraid to put a few more
dollars into the set-up.

2) I will definitely commit to getting stronger, but I am definitely no stoic. Capatilism exists
so that people can get what they want. As such, I want to find the perfect solution, because
it exists.

3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom bracket,
a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive? Is there any way to
get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?

4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long term
effects to be wary of?

Again, thanks all! I appreciate the advice of people who have been there and done that.

 

[Terry Morse]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Steve B) wrote:

> Is there any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?

Rivendell has a 48/34 crank for sale:

http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/cranks_bbs_c-rings/12223.html

That probably wouldn't require replacing any other parts.

>
> 4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
> up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
> the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long
> term effects to be wary of?

There are many reasons for knee soreness, but the most common reason probably is underdeveloped leg
muscles in beginner cyclists. If you're fortunate, the soreness will go away as you get stronger. If
it persists, you'll need to look for other causes.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

 

[Mike S.]

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey,
>
> Thanks for all of the advice. Some great, some really bitter, some really cryptic! (ie next time
> you need some milk for nutrition, or a new sweater to keep warm, just make due with what you have.
> water or flesh should do the trick if you can just commit to being less of a consumer...)
>
> Seriously though, some good suggestions. A couple of follow up questions and comments:
>
> 1) I can't take the bike back to change the gearing because I bought it used. It's a 1999 LeMond.
> I did this in an effort to be less of a conspicuous consumer. And I'm unemployed. I did,
> however, get a great deal on the bike (I think), $725. Which is why I am not afraid to put a
> few more dollars into the set-up.
>
> 2) I will definitely commit to getting stronger, but I am definitely no stoic. Capatilism exists
> so that people can get what they want. As such, I want to find the perfect solution, because it
> exists.
>
> 3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom
> bracket, a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive? Is there
> any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?
>
> 4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
> up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
> the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long
> term effects to be wary of?

MS: Have you gone to get fit on the bike? That would be step #1 if your knees are hurting. By all
means don't ignore this!

If your knees are hurting in the front, you have your cleat is twisted, or your saddle's too low. If
they hurt in the back, then your saddle's too high. If it is only one knee that hurts, you may have
a leg length discrepency and may need to do more adjusting than just the simple stuff: orthotics,
etc. All of these can be fixed, but it takes someone that knows what they're doing to help you out.

>
> Again, thanks all! I appreciate the advice of people who have been there and done that.

 

[Ken]

[email protected] (Steve B) wrote in news:6c5e6819.0302180909.65815325 @posting.google.com:
> 3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom
> bracket, a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive? Is there
> any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?

Modifying your bike to use a triple crankset will cost several hundred dollars. Smaller rings are a
problem with modern Shimano road systems. Your cheapest and easiest option is to go with a bigger
cassette. You can get a low end mountain bike cassette, rear derailleur, and chain for under $100
and they should be compatible with the rest of your system. That should help you get up moderate
hills, though you'll still need some training to get up real mountains.

> 4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore.

Don't expect wonders after just 2 rides. Sore knees are caused as much by too weak muscles as too
big gears. Focus on longer distances (and hours) before you tackle real steep hills.

Ken

 

[Thomas Reynolds]

I've read the advice you have received so far and I agree with the posters who recommend a simple
cassette change. It is easy (literally three minutes) and for the cost of two $5 tools you can do it
yourself. A new cassette will cost about $30-$50. Its also easy to swap back.

You can go with a triple but now you are talking about a lot more money (hundred of dollars) and a
lot more work to swap back.

With the short cage Ultegra rear derailleur you should be able to accomodate up to a 28 tooth
cassette cog (I have a short cage Dura-Ace that will). If you want to put a mountain bike rear
derailleur on (an XT or LX) you can go all the way to a 34 tooth cog.

Speaking from my own experience, Tom

[email protected] (Steve B) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi,
>
> I am a newbie to road biking, from mountain biking. I JUST bought a used LeMond Zurich on
> Thursday, and have been on two rides. I LOVE
> it.
>
> Here's the problem/question...
>
> **Why is road biking so hard, and how do I make it easier?**
>
> Granted, I am getting back down to my fighting weight, but I am wondering if I can change my
> gearing to make it a little easier. I've got a two-ring set up with a 52 and a 39. It's a nine
> speed Ultegra set up.
>
> Can I make the second ring smaller for climbing? If so, how small should I make it? WIll this
> affect my shifting? Can I add a third ring? Based on posts, this seems hard and expensive. ANy
> other ideas? Get in shape and lose some pounds?
>
> I live in Berkeley, so I've got lots of hills and climbs. Up and down.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!

 

[Jim Edgar]

Steve B at [email protected] wrote on 2/18/03 9:09 AM:

> 1) I can't take the bike back to change the gearing because I bought it used. It's a 1999 LeMond.
> I did this in an effort to be less of a conspicuous consumer. And I'm unemployed. I did,
> however, get a great deal on the bike (I think), $725. Which is why I am not afraid to put a
> few more dollars into the set-up.

From '99, it probably came with a 12-23 cassette. Pair that with a 53/39 chainring that's tough for
a new rider.

- Put on a 12-27 cassette
- Put on a new chain
- Have someone knowledgeable look at your position on the bike. Get fitted if you have the $$'s, but
a well-placed 6 pack of Sierra Nevada to a knowledgeable person could get you a pretty good
idea... (Have 'em look before they drink).
- Go Ride - stay in lower gears.... Only use the big ring if you are going downhill. Learn to
spin smoothly.

> 3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom
> bracket, a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive? Is there
> any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?
BB - $ Crankset (w/ chainrings) - $$ - $$$ Front Shifter/brake lever (with STI) - $$ Derailleur
Cable - 1/3 $ New Chain - $ Probably a new Front Derailleur - $

Smaller 2 Ring (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com) Vague possibility of a new BB - $? Crankset (w/
chainrings) - $$ - $$$ Derailleur Cable - 1/3 $ New Chain - $ Possibly a new Front Derailleur - $?

... I still like the new cogset option much, much better.

>
> 4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
> up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
> the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long
> term effects to be wary of?
Get out of the hills until you are sure you can get comfortable on the bike. Go down to the
waterfront and spin back and forth along the bike path for an hour. Knee still sore? Not good. Get
comfortable with higher efforts on the bike in small increments. Learn to spin a lower gear at a
higher cadence. Make sure you are correctly positioned on the bike. Check your saddle height. Play
with your dog (or cat). Eat your veggies.

Pain (in this instance) is not good. IIRC, pain in the front of the knee, raise your saddle. Pain in
the rear of your knee, lower your saddle.

Or, search Google for - "saddle height" knee pain

and get, for example, this page: http://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

Good luck!

-- Jim

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, Steve B <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom
> bracket, a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive?

Yes that's why replacing the cassette is the first step - did you mention what size you have? You
need to know the number of teeth on the largest rear cog. If it's anything less than 27, you can get
a 12-27 cluster to replace it, keeping your cranks, BB, shifters, derailleur, etc. You will probably
need a chain if you increase the size of the big cog significantly. That will cost the least in
terms of both parts and labor.

> Is there any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?

Yes but unless you buy used parts that is still going to be expensive compared to a cassette
and chain.

>4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
> up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
> the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long term
> effects to be wary of?

That depends on what is wrong - possibly nothing, or possibly you need to talk to your doctor. Make
sure your saddle isn't too high
- that problem won't cure itself. Beginning cyclists often get sore in almost any part of the body
you can name.

--Paul

 

[Chluu907]

Steve:

Changing from a double crankset (53-39) to a triple crankset (52-42-30 or 53-39-30) is a costly
change. Also, the only 53-39-30 cranksets I've seen are the Shimano Dura Ace. They are the most
expensive triple crankset on the market.

If you want to go with a 52-42-30 change, you will need the following.

1. 52-42-30 Crankset (Shimano Ultegra, 105)
2. Triple Front Derailleur
3. Triple Bottom Bracket (Longer axle: Double 109.5, Triple 118)
4. Triple Rear Derailleur
5. New Chain (To accomodate the new derailleur)

Shop Charge for Installation :$75-$100.

You can purchase the pieces online to make it cheaper such as from Excel Sports or Colorado Cyclits.

You can also replace the cassette that is mounted on your rear wheel. That will give you a larger
range of gears. You can try a 12-25, 12-27 or one of Sheldon Brown's Century Special. I believe he
offers a 13-34 or a 12-30. That should help out tremendously. You may need to purchase a new rear
derailleur as well and a new chain.

Claude

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:09:25 -0500, Steve B wrote:

>
> 3) If I were to add a third ring, how would I do it? Sounds like I need to get a new bottom
> bracket, a new crankset, and a new sti shifter. Is this correct? Is this expensive? Is there
> any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?

Yes. Use mountain-bike cranks and leave the granny off. I have a 46/30 right now (you need a 94mm
bolt circle for the 30).
>
> 4) Also, even after two rides, my right knee is sore. I'm 31 and definitely don't want to **** it
> up. Will "grinning and bearing it" with a 52/39 compromise the safety of my joints? After all,
> the rides in Berkeley are basically climb for 1500 feet and then descend. What are the long
> term effects to be wary of?

Knee problems result often from poor fit. Make sure the bike is correctly adjusted, not too high or
low a saddle position, correct fore-and-aft, etc. Of course, mashing too big a gear, especially up
hills, also contributes.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | It is a scientifically proven fact that a mid life crisis can _`\(,_ | only be cured by
something racy and Italian. Bianchis and (_)/ (_) | Colnagos are a lot cheaper than Maserattis
and Ferraris. -- Glenn Davies

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:00:35 -0500, ajames54 wrote:

> There is one thing I always try to impress on mountain bikers who are transitioning to road ...
> SPIN ... in most cases Mountain Bikers are prone to push a higher gear at a lower cadence that
> would a roadie. This makes hills higher that they need to be. Before you start buying more kit,
> try training yourself to drop a gear and increase your cadence.

Another thing mountain-bikers tend not to do (because of suspended forks) is get out of the saddle
to climb. That will build your strength. I used to commute daily down and up Spruce to the
University -- on a fixed gear. Really helps your climbing.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand _`\(,_ | mathematics. (_)/ (_) |

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:56:43 -0500, Paul Southworth wrote:

>> Is there any way to get a smaller two ring set-up, like a 48/30 or something?
>
> Yes but unless you buy used parts that is still going to be expensive compared to a cassette
> and chain.

Not necessarily. You can get a 94/58 mountain bike crankset for $30 and you will be done. For this
sort of thing I like the Shimano RSX -- it's cheap, and is really a double (the granny hangs off the
special inner ring. Then get rings the sizes you want -- brobably $15 apiece.

This is comparable to buying a cassette and chain in price, but has advantages, in that the
wide-range cassette loses a lot of intermediate ratios, and that even a 39/27 is not that low.
I have a 46/30 and a 12-23 cassette -- much better ratios.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson