Why is road biking so hard?

[Mike S.]

"MikeYankee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Strengthen yourself by riding the equipment you have. Avoid killer hills
if
> you can't handle them... the time will come when you can.
>
> Going "soft" on equipment specs (e.g., triple crank + big easy cogs in
back)
> may make things easier in the short term, but for the long term your
equipment
> is fine. Your conditioning just needs to catch up.
>
> Just one man's opinion.
>

Here's another: Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that you only get as strong as the
smallest gear (physically largest cog) in your cassette. I notice this when I switch back and forth
between my 23t equipped wheelset and my 21t equipped wheelset on the same roads.

After a certain point in your riding "career" you'll probably want to go back to the gears you're
riding now. You'll have to learn how to spin, when to sit, when to stand, and become more fit first.

>
> Mike Yankee
>
> (Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)

 

[Peter Cole]

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Also, my right knee hurts on the front, kind of a sharp, this-is-not-good acute pain. Sounds like
> I need to raise the seat a little and get a proper fitting. I think the bike fits well. I'm 6'2",
> 190, and the frame is a 59. I'm stretched out over the bars, and my legs extend to about a 170-175
> deg full extension.

One thing to watch out for when you get knee pain on a new bike is foot to pedal alignment. A good
place to start is with the cleats far back on the shoe. Experimenting with cleat rotational angle is
also a good idea, some knees like the foot to be toed in, some toed out. I never get sore knees as
long as my pedals are set for toe in, but will get them at other angles.

 

[Donald Specker]

Last year the local club took a 60 mile run around one of our beautiful Finger Lakes that concluded
with some pretty steep hills. The three fastest riders going up those hills had 53/39 doubles with
23, 23, and 21 max teeth on the cassette. When it got really steep, they stood. Plenty of folks were
spinning with more rear teeth, but they were also slower.

To me, at 6'2" and 200 lbs, and 47 years of age, it seems that I get just as winded spinning up a
hill as chugging up in low cadence. I test rode a triple equipped road bike on some steep hills and
actually had to get off the bike from being winded by spinning. I currently have an 11-23 rear on a
53/39 double and will try a 25 or 27 rear cassette, but I don't expect it's going to help immensely.
Strength, fitness, and knowing when to sit vs stand seem most important.

A final note - I have pretty well advanced arthritis in my knees, and powering up hills in low
cadence never ever hurts them.

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "MikeYankee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Strengthen yourself by riding the equipment you have. Avoid killer
hills
> if
> > you can't handle them... the time will come when you can.
> >
> > Going "soft" on equipment specs (e.g., triple crank + big easy cogs in
> back)
> > may make things easier in the short term, but for the long term your
> equipment
> > is fine. Your conditioning just needs to catch up.
> >
> > Just one man's opinion.
> >
>
> Here's another: Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that you only get as strong as the
> smallest gear (physically largest cog) in your cassette. I notice this when I switch back and
> forth between my 23t equipped wheelset and my 21t equipped wheelset on the same roads.
>
> After a certain point in your riding "career" you'll probably want to go back to the gears you're
> riding now. You'll have to learn how to spin,
when
> to sit, when to stand, and become more fit first.
>
>
>
> >
> > Mike Yankee
> >
> > (Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)

 

[Steve B]

Hey,

Thanks to all for some great advice! I've learned all I need to know to be a pro!

In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench. Hopefully, this
will make my rides more enjoyable...

One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

Again, thanks, and see you in the hills!

Cheers,

Steve B

 

[Ken]

[email protected] (Steve B) wrote in news:[email protected]:
> In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
> myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench. Hopefully,
> this will make my rides more enjoyable...
>
> One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

Seems to me that if you're going to use a shop's equipment, you should at least buy your parts
there. You will need a longer chain if your new cassette has bigger gears.

Ken

 

[Steve B]

"David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> What is steep? Marin is "steep". That steep?

Okay, not Marin steep. Claremont to Centennial steep on Grizzly Peak. Spruce steep. Okay, not
that steep!

Can anyone ride up Marin on a road bike with a 39-23 gear? The steepest I've seen people ride
(without a granny gear) were the pros up fillmore street at the SF Grand Prix. And they were having
a hell of a time!

Thanks to everyone for all of the great advice.

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, Steve B <[email protected]> wrote:
>Hey,
>
>Thanks to all for some great advice! I've learned all I need to know to be a pro!
>
>In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
>myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench. Hopefully,
>this will make my rides more enjoyable...
>
>One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

Maybe, but more likely not. Make sure before you leave the Missing Link that you aren't "missing a
link" or you can destroy the bike by shifting it into the big chainring and large rear cog. It must
be able to get into and out of that gear to be safe. It is not a gear you'd want to use, but tired
people sometimes accidentally get into it, and if the chain is too short it will break the
derailleur and very often rip it off the bike, breaking/bending/stripping the derailleur hanger as
well. This is a tragic failure that occurs all the time. It is not always irreparable but it always
sucks bigtime.

Also since this is a used bike, you probably have no idea how much mileage is on the chain. I would
probably just replace it if it were mine. SRAM PC59 is a fine cheap 9-speed chain that will work
with your drivetrain. Shimano chains are OK as well (they do shift well) but they do not come with a
"snap link" and you want that for ease of service.

I think it's better to replace a cheap chain regularly than buy an expensive one and end up feeling
inhibited against replacement due to how much you spent on it.

--Paul

 

[Mike S.]

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey,
>
> Thanks to all for some great advice! I've learned all I need to know to be a pro!
>
> In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
> myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench. Hopefully,
> this will make my rides more enjoyable...
>
> One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

MS: You're going to have to try it out and see. It may, or then again, it may not. If the cassette
on the bike was worn to begin with, you'll need a new chain regardless of whether the chain fits
the new cassette or not. Chains and cassettes wear together, a new cassette with an old chain
may start skipping. You'll know right away when you start to try and put power down whether the
chain's going to skip or not.

>
> Again, thanks, and see you in the hills!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Steve B

 

[The Pomeranian]

Wayne T wrote:
>
> "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The easiest thing for you to do would be change the back to a 12-27, or
> get
> > a 13-30 from Sheldon Brown. You might need a rear deraileur also.
>
> Also, If you replace the 39 with something smaller, you may have to replace the 52 with something
> smaller as well. I can't remember the numbers but there is a maximum jump you can make from the
> smaller ring to the larger. It might be 14 teeth. I'm sure some of the very knowlegeable here
> could answer that.

It might be out-of-spec usage, but it works fine in practice (for me). I have a "regular" 105 front
derailleur rated for only 14t jumps. In fact, I run 53-33 (20t spread) chainrings and it works fine.
Naturally, those w/ 130 or 135 BCD cranks don't have the option of putting on 33t inner ring. I've
also run a 57-38 setup w/ 130 BCD cranks, and the "normal" f-der works fine for that too.

The f-der spec for "capacity" is one of those specs that won't cause much trouble if you violate it.
For those with front indexing and gated chainrings, performance may suffer because correctly gated
rings for very large steps may not be (and probably aren't) available. But I point out that this is
primarily a gate problem, not a f-der capacity problem.

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:29:49 -0500, Steve B wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Thanks to all for some great advice! I've learned all I need to know to be a pro!
>
> In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
> myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench.

They're still in business? Great. I bought a track frame there, in 1971 I think. Great place,
part of a local collection of student-run businesses with cute names. Are they still in Lower
Sproul Plaza?

> One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

Get a new chain. the one you have is probably too short, and it is not a good idea to add links.
Besides, it is a good idea to replace a chain on a used bike. You have no idea where it's been.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little
statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:24:12 -0500, Steve B wrote:

> "David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>>
>> What is steep? Marin is "steep". That steep?
>
> Okay, not Marin steep. Claremont to Centennial steep on Grizzly Peak. Spruce steep. Okay, not
> that steep!

Claremont and Grizzley Peak are reasonable climbs. So is Spruce (my old commute). Still hard with a
39/23, but eventually you will find those doable.
>
> Can anyone ride up Marin on a road bike with a 39-23 gear?

Some folks here will claim to be able to. I heard tell of a guy who went down it, no brakes, and
loved. But he was probably lying (lots of nasty cross-streets, and a 20+% grade)

--

David L. Johnson

__o | There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat, _`\(,_ | plausible, and
wrong. --H.L. Mencken (_)/ (_) |

 

[Robin Hubert]

"David L. Johnson >" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:24:12 -0500, Steve B wrote:
>
> > "David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >>
> >> What is steep? Marin is "steep". That steep?
> >
> > Okay, not Marin steep. Claremont to Centennial steep on Grizzly Peak. Spruce steep. Okay, not
> > that steep!
>
> Claremont and Grizzley Peak are reasonable climbs. So is Spruce (my old commute). Still hard with
> a 39/23, but eventually you will find those doable.
> >
> > Can anyone ride up Marin on a road bike with a 39-23 gear?
>
> Some folks here will claim to be able to. I heard tell of a guy who went down it, no brakes,
> and loved.

Now, that's tricky. Probably messy too!

>But he was probably lying (lots of nasty cross-streets, and a 20+% grade)

Last time I loved on the road I almost got arrested.

Robin Hubert

 

[Jim Edgar]

Steve B at [email protected] wrote on 2/19/03 9:29 AM:
>
> In case you were wondering, I've just ordered a 12-27 from Nashbar ($40) and am going to put it on
> myself (hopefully) at the local shop (Missing Link) that has a community work bench. Hopefully,
> this will make my rides more enjoyable...
>
Even with all the faceless advice available online, a good LBS can be a lifesaver. On bike fitting,
technical tricks, etc....

The Missing Link is an honorable shop, and they should be supported if possible. Not many (if any)
others locally who have a shared bench availble to customers. My personal bias would be to spend a
few extra bucks to keep 'em around for future generations.

> One last question...will the chain work with this new set-up?

Get a new chain from the folks at the Link. Sachs PC-59 should be fine. It'll have to be longer than
your last one. Lots of refs around to figger chain length.

>
> Again, thanks, and see you in the hills!

good luck!

-- Jim

 

[David L. Johnso]

On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:46:46 -0500, Robin Hubert wrote:

>> Some folks here will claim to be able to. I heard tell of a guy who went down it, no brakes,
>> and loved.
>

Oops. "lived"

> Now, that's tricky. Probably messy too!
>
>>But he was probably lying (lots of nasty cross-streets, and a 20+% grade)
>
> Last time I loved on the road I almost got arrested.

love faster

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. -- _`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Mark Hickey]

"David L. Johnson" <David L. Johnson <[email protected]>> wrote:

>On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:46:46 -0500, Robin Hubert wrote:
>
>>> Some folks here will claim to be able to. I heard tell of a guy who went down it, no brakes, and
>>> loved.
>
>Oops. "lived"
>
>> Now, that's tricky. Probably messy too!
>>
>>>But he was probably lying (lots of nasty cross-streets, and a 20+% grade)
>>
>> Last time I loved on the road I almost got arrested.
>
>love faster

Hey, according to John Lennon, "no one will be watching (us)".

Mark "why don't we do it in the ro-o-oad" Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of
the $695 ti frame

 

[Bill Davidson]

Steve B wrote:
> Here's the problem/question...
>
> **Why is road biking so hard, and how do I make it easier?**

Road biking isn't any harder than mountain biking.

> Granted, I am getting back down to my fighting weight, but I am wondering if I can change my
> gearing to make it a little easier. I've got a two-ring set up with a 52 and a 39. It's a nine
> speed Ultegra set up.

Ah. You're having trouble with hills now that you're on a double ring setup. That's not the road.
It's your gearing.

> Can I make the second ring smaller for climbing?

Probably not much. IIRC, Ultegra doubles are 130mm BCD which allows you a 38 at the smallest.

> If so, how small should I make it?

38's about it; and that's not a big difference.

> WIll this affect my shifting?

Yes. Changing your gearing range changes how you choose gears but then you knew that the second you
got off the MTB and onto the road bike.

> Can I add a third ring? Based on posts, this seems hard and expensive.

It doesn't have to be expensive. I did it for zero money. I took an old Deore DX crank off an MTB I
don't ride anymore. My downtube shifter works with it as does my old Shimano 600 front deraileur
(designed for a double). The rear deraileur capacity is a little bit of a problem since I don't
have a long cage deraileur but I work around that by staying well away from the big-big and
small-small gears.

It might be a little more difficult if you have Ultegra brifters that are a few years old but I
think the 9 speeds can handle a triple. You may not have a free crank that fits your bottom bracket
but you can probably pick a used one up cheap if you look hard enough. You'll probably have the same
capacity issues I have but that's the price of being cheap.

Going with a triple can make hill climbing a lot easier; especially if you have arthritic knees
like I do.

> ANy other ideas? Get in shape and lose some pounds?

Of course that helps. Losing weight can greatly help your hill climbing and getting in shape helps
everything.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

 

[Bill Davidson]

Terry Morse wrote:
> Changing to a triple crankset requires new shifter, bottom bracket, and very likely front and rear
> derailleurs.

"Requires" is kind of a strong word. I'm currently using a triple crank with shifters (DA 7sp),
bottom bracket (Campy SR), front (Shimano 600) and rear (DA 7sp) deraileurs all designed for a
double with little difficulty. The bottom bracket is really only required if you don't have frame
clearance.

Many deraileurs and some friction shifters (which road front shifters usually are) can be used a
fair bit beyond spec. I've never seen it tried with 9sp Ultegra but it might be possible to get by
with just a crank.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.

 

[Bill Davidson]

Steve B wrote:
> Here's the problem/question...
>
> **Why is road biking so hard, and how do I make it easier?**

Road biking isn't any harder than mountain biking.

> Granted, I am getting back down to my fighting weight, but I am wondering if I can change my
> gearing to make it a little easier. I've got a two-ring set up with a 52 and a 39. It's a nine
> speed Ultegra set up.

Ah. You're having trouble with hills now that you're on a double ring setup. That's not the road.
It's your gearing.

> Can I make the second ring smaller for climbing?

Probably not much. IIRC, Ultegra doubles are 130mm BCD which allows you a 38 at the smallest.

> If so, how small should I make it?

38's about it; and that's not a big difference.

> WIll this affect my shifting?

Yes. Changing your gearing range changes how you choose gears but then you knew that the second you
got off the MTB and onto the road bike.

> Can I add a third ring? Based on posts, this seems hard and expensive.

It doesn't have to be expensive. I did it for zero money. I took an old Deore DX crank off an MTB I
don't ride anymore. My downtube shifter works with it as does my old Shimano 600 front deraileur
(designed for a double). The rear deraileur capacity is a little bit of a problem since I don't
have a long cage deraileur but I work around that by staying well away from the big-big and
small-small gears.

It might be a little more difficult if you have Ultegra brifters that are a few years old but I
think the 9 speeds can handle a triple (not sure). You may not have a free crank that fits your
bottom bracket but you can probably pick a used one up cheap if you look hard enough. If you don't
have enough clearance, you may also need a new bottom bracket. You'll probably have the same
capacity issues I have but that's the price of being cheap.

Going with a triple can make hill climbing a lot easier; especially if you have arthritic knees
like I do.

> ANy other ideas? Get in shape and lose some pounds?

Of course that helps. Losing weight can greatly help your hill climbing and getting in shape helps
everything.

You could also leave the double on and replace the cassette and rear deraileur with an MTB setup. It
should work fine with your shifters. You could get an LX rear deraileur and 12x34 cassette making
your lowest gear a 39-34, which should get you over most hills for less than $100.

--Bill Davidson
--
Please remove ".nospam" from my address for email replies.