Why Is the Supply of Idiot Mountain Bikers ENDLESS?

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc' started by Mike Vandeman, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. At 01:04 PM 10/9/04 -0600, Jon K wrote:
    >The Psychology of Mountain Biking


    >Your article was written nearly five years ago, but its point does not change.

    You have stated, basically that mountain biking is bad. In reality, I ride a
    bike, I get out. You sit in your dark basement writing up shit that isn’t true
    to portray a false image of a mountain biker. We do LESS damage to nature then
    lets say someone who rides horses, or someone who rides all terrain vehicles.

    That isn't saying much!

    > We're more active then someone who plays on a team sport. And lying?


    Who cares? Mountain biking is still very destructive.

    > Why in the name of god would we lie any more then any normal person would.


    Because it's the only way you think you can defend your indefensible sport.

    >We ride mountain bikes because it’s more fun then any other sport we've

    participated in. Sure it’s expensive, and it’s, how you say, like a drug. But
    its better that people get out, explore, and don’t criticize other people for
    what they choose to do. I do understand that people poach trails, but the people
    who do this are a minor percentage of the mountain biking community.

    Nonsense. You have no idea how many it is. In any case, it's a lot of people!
    Enough for every park in the world to have some.

    > And for building trails on public or private lands, where the hell else are we

    supposed to go?

    Ride on paved roads.

    >As long as we don’t bother anyone


    Mountain biking bothers wildlife and all other trail users.

    > and stay away from any housing development etc, there really is no harm.


    You obviously know NOTHING about the damage mountain bikng does.

    >When people walk up or down these trails, they are doing so at their own

    stupidity. When you see a 5 foot ledge built out of wood in front of you, does
    it not give you some prerogative to get the fuck out? And again, trails do not
    cause any more harm to the environment then anything else could. A dirt path a
    few feet wide is better than a bloody road wouldn’t you think.

    It's habitat destruction, plain and simple.

    >I don’t know if your views on this topic have changed in the last few years,

    but maybe you should actually go out, buy a bike and ride it how it was made to
    be ridden.

    I have ridden a bike longer than you have been alive.

    > You would probably enjoy yourself. Maybe this text may have given you the

    opposite view on this, and you would stop being such a hypocritical prick about
    something you cant see for what it really is.

    I just tell the truth -- something mountain bikers CAN'T STAND!

    >And to add to this; your pictorial overview of your article was ridiculous, and

    doesn’t say anything of meaning. A frog, compared to a bunch of people riding
    bikes. Good one. I dont have a Ph.d and I could have dont better then that.

    Obviously it went over your head.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Mike Vandeman wrote:
    > At 01:04 PM 10/9/04 -0600, Jon K wrote:
    >> The Psychology of Mountain Biking

    >
    >> Your article was written nearly five years ago...


    Hey Mikey! Why don't you change the wording on your webpsyte from "Send
    e-mail to Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. [email protected]" to "even though I
    invite it, if you send me anything CHALLENGING my drivel I'll spam it all
    over the net for all to see, violating every known convention of e-etiquette
    and common decency and courtesy"?

    Bill "just a thought, do(r)c" S.
     
  3. On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 05:57:34 GMT, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    ..Mike Vandeman wrote:
    ..> At 01:04 PM 10/9/04 -0600, Jon K wrote:
    ..>> The Psychology of Mountain Biking
    ..>
    ..>> Your article was written nearly five years ago...
    ..
    ..Hey Mikey! Why don't you change the wording on your webpsyte from "Send
    ..e-mail to Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. [email protected]" to "even though I
    ..invite it, if you send me anything CHALLENGING my drivel I'll spam it all
    ..over the net for all to see, violating every known convention of e-etiquette
    ..and common decency and courtesy"?

    Publicly posing SPAM is the best way to deal with it. It teaches the world just
    what mountain bikers are like. They are apparently all idiots. Just read what
    they wrote!

    ..Bill "just a thought, do(r)c" S.
    ..

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  4. On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:46:29 +1000, Mr_Kingkillaha
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..
    ..Mike Vandeman Wrote:
    ..> Jon K wrote:
    ..> >> We're more active then someone who plays on a team sport. And
    ..> lying?
    ..> Who cares? Mountain biking is still very destructive.
    ..>
    ..
    ..the bikers do have a point: hiking is still damaging to the environment

    Of course. I have always said that. What do you think "off-limits to humans"
    means?!

    ..-Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..If you really care about the enviroment you will stop hiking,
    ..hypocrite.

    I hardly do any hiking. But I need to invesitgate mountain bike damage.

    ..> >>We ride mountain bikes because it’s more fun then any other sport
    ..> we've
    ..> participated in. Sure it’s expensive, and it’s, how you say, like a
    ..> drug. But
    ..> its better that people get out, explore, and don’t criticize other
    ..> people for
    ..> what they choose to do. I do understand that people poach trails, but
    ..> the people
    ..> who do this are a minor percentage of the mountain biking community.
    ..>
    ..> Nonsense. You have no idea how many it is. In any case, it's a lot of
    ..> people!
    ..> Enough for every park in the world to have some.
    ..>
    ..
    ..
    ..Nice research, you make alot of assumptions without any basis in facts.
    ..It is much easier for hikers to wander off-trail.

    Why? Mountain bikers can't WALK? Don't make me laugh.

    ..> > And for building trails on public or private lands, where the hell
    ..> else are we
    ..> supposed to go?
    ..> Ride on paved roads.
    ..> >As long as we don’t bother anyone
    ..> Mountain biking bothers wildlife and all other trail users.
    ..>
    ..
    ..Even hikers can kill small animals, if they aren't careful.

    Of course, but it is MUCH more difficult, since we walk far more slowly than a
    mountain biker rides.

    The one
    ..time I went to look for an Alameda whipsnake, I almost stepped on one,
    ..which was lying in grass growing in the trail, and didn't move until I
    ..had almost stepped on it. -Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..I wonder how many you killed without noticing, Murderer. And why are
    ..you destroying the grass, hypocrite?

    I don't. I watch where I walk.

    ..> > and stay away from any housing development etc, there really is no
    ..> harm.
    ..> You obviously know NOTHING about the damage mountain bikng does.
    ..>
    ..
    ..Although there are many studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid
    ..scientific studies specifically on MTBs and their effects on wildlife.
    ..- Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..Interesting point, LIAR.

    What was the date of that statement?

    ..> >I don’t know if your views on this topic have changed in the last few
    ..> years,
    ..> but maybe you should actually go out, buy a bike and ride it how it was
    ..> made to
    ..> be ridden.
    ..>
    ..> I have ridden a bike longer than you have been alive.
    ..>
    ..
    ..and bring back comfortable, broad seats (pressure is weight per square
    ..inch!), handlebars that bend back, so you can sit upright and enjoy the
    ..ride and the view and not tire your arms, a few usable, reliable gears,
    ..smooth, hard tires with very low rolling resistance, and good, ample
    ..front and rear baskets for safely carrying lots of food, books, or
    ..whatever else turns you on.
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..Yes we have all seen "The Wizard of OZ", and know you were in it.
    ..
    ..
    ..>
    ..> > You would probably enjoy yourself. Maybe this text may have given you
    ..> the
    ..> opposite view on this, and you would stop being such a hypocritical
    ..> prick about
    ..> something you cant see for what it really is.
    ..> I just tell the truth -- something mountain bikers CAN'T STAND!
    ..>
    ..
    ..
    ..Mountain bikers can't stand your false version of the truth (lies),
    ..liar.

    Quote even ONE "false" statement. (You can't.)

    ..> I am working on destroying wildlife habitat by hiking in it. Want to
    ..> help? (I also spent the previous 8 years training my cat to kill
    ..> animals.)
    ..>
    ..
    ..and there are far too many cats. If I had known how many birds and
    ..other animals are killed by cats, even well fed ones, I probably would
    ..never have chosen to adopt them.- Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..You are quite fond of being a hypocrite. You should work on saving the
    ..enviroment from yourself, and your fat-A cats. That thing looked like
    ..it ate LOTS of birds.

    No, not even one.

    ..BTW your website is way too repetitive to be taken seriously. Every
    ..article is recycled into a new one.
    ..
    ..(All quotes in green taken from Vandemans website.)

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  5. Scott Burley

    Scott Burley Guest

    On 11 Oct 2004, Mike Vandeman offered up this insight:

    > Publicly posing SPAM is the best way to deal with it. It teaches the
    > world just what mountain bikers are like. They are apparently all
    > idiots. Just read what they wrote!


    I wasn't aware that "the world" read these newsgroups.

    --
    __ __ _ ___ ___
    / _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
    \_ ( (( o | | | |
    |__/\__\_/|_| |_|

    [email protected]
     
  6. Scott Burley

    Scott Burley Guest

    On 11 Oct 2004, Mike Vandeman offered up this insight:

    > Of course. I have always said that. What do you think "off-limits to
    > humans" means?!


    First documented MV use of an interrobang.

    --
    __ __ _ ___ ___
    / _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
    \_ ( (( o | | | |
    |__/\__\_/|_| |_|

    [email protected]
     
  7. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:27:05 +1000, Mr_Kingkillaha
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..
    ...Nice research, you make alot of assumptions without any basis in
    ..facts.
    ...It is much easier for hikers to wander off-trail.
    ..
    .....Why? Mountain bikers can't WALK? Don't make me laugh. -MV
    ..
    ..Mountain bikers don't set down thier bikes and wander off trail, DUH.

    Why not? Liar.

    ..Hikers just wander wherever they want, they dont have to worry about
    ..hitting trees.
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ...> Who cares? Mountain biking is still very destructive.
    ...>
    ...
    ...the bikers do have a point: hiking is still damaging to the
    ..environment
    ..
    .....Of course. I have always said that. What do you think "off-limits
    ..to humans"
    ..means?!
    ..
    ..Yes, I know you have always said that. I quoted your website. The
    ..point is you are not setting a good example.

    Yes, I am.

    .....I hardly do any hiking. But I need to invesitgate mountain bike
    ..damage.
    ..
    ..I thought you had said you hike maybe once a week. Thats more than I
    ..am
    ..able to bike off-road.

    So? You still disturb FAR more habitat than I do.

    ..The one
    ...time I went to look for an Alameda whipsnake, I almost stepped on
    ..one,
    ...which was lying in grass growing in the trail, and didn't move until
    ..I
    ...had almost stepped on it. -Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ...I wonder how many you killed without noticing, Murderer. And why
    ..are
    ...you destroying the grass, hypocrite?
    ..
    .....I don't. I watch where I walk.
    ..
    ..The snake that you almost killed was sitting in grass that you were
    ..about to step on, and destroy.

    But I didn't. I saw it. A biker would have squashed it.

    ...Although there are many studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid
    ...scientific studies specifically on MTBs and their effects on
    ..wildlife.
    ...- Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ...Interesting point, LIAR.

    That was written long ago. Now there is ONE such study.

    .....What was the date of that statement?
    ..
    ..A long time ago. The point is that you started your
    .."War Against Mountainbikerism" before you had any research, meaning you
    ..are biased to the point of blindness.

    BS. I still have observation.

    ...Mountain bikers can't stand your false version of the truth (lies),
    ...liar.
    ..
    .....Quote even ONE "false" statement. (You can't.)
    ..
    ..You twist any truth that you find. I dont have time to find the
    ..quotes, but here is one example:
    .."All mountan bikers lie." - false statement.

    You are misquoting me. I have always said that all the ones I have met have
    lied.

    ..Some mountain bikers lie. -true statement. Maybe you haven't met one
    ..that doesn't lie, but until you have met all of them, you are lying.
    ..
    ..
    ...You are quite fond of being a hypocrite. You should work on saving
    ..the
    ...enviroment from yourself, and your fat-A cats. That thing looked
    ..like
    ...it ate LOTS of birds.
    ..
    .....No, not even one.
    ..
    ..You have never let your cat outside?

    Yes, but it didn't eat birds.

    Not even on accident? I find
    ..that very hard to believe.
    ..Plus you have been depriving it of its natural enviroment, outside.
    ..
    ..
    ..Your arguments are endless, yet always the same. Maybe it is time for
    ..you to consider understanding that people that aren't you enjoy things
    ..that you don't enjoy.

    Of course. Many people enjoy heroin. So what?

    .."They assume that the most obvious cause (e.g. the developer destroying
    ..habitat, the bicycle or bulldozer killing a whipsnake, the legislator
    ..introducing an anti-environmental amendment, etc.) should be the focus
    ..of our efforts. This is dangerously naive. " - Mike Vandeman
    ..
    ..Maybe you should focus on something positive, instead of always
    ..negative.

    I do.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  8. Brewer

    Brewer Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:27:05 +1000, Mr_Kingkillaha
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > .
    > ..Nice research, you make alot of assumptions without any basis in
    > .facts.
    > ..It is much easier for hikers to wander off-trail.
    > .
    > ....Why? Mountain bikers can't WALK? Don't make me laugh. -MV
    > .
    > .Mountain bikers don't set down thier bikes and wander off trail, DUH.
    >
    > Why not? Liar.



    I will say this very slowly so that you can understand
    "B e c a u s e W e a r e m o u n t a i n b i k e r s, n o
    t h i k e r s":



    ===
    I am working on creating a newsgroup that is off-limits to
    Vanda-monkeys ("pure logic"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting stupidity and ignorance.)





    >
    > .Hikers just wander wherever they want, they dont have to worry about
    > .hitting trees.
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > ..> Who cares? Mountain biking is still very destructive.


    LIAR




    > ..>
    > ..
    > ..the bikers do have a point: hiking is still damaging to the
    > .environment
    > .
    > ....Of course. I have always said that. What do you think "off-limits
    > .to humans"
    > .means?!
    > .
    > .Yes, I know you have always said that. I quoted your website. The
    > .point is you are not setting a good example.
    >
    > Yes, I am.
    >
    > ....I hardly do any hiking. But I need to invesitgate mountain bike
    > .damage.
    > .
    > .I thought you had said you hike maybe once a week. Thats more than I
    > .am
    > .able to bike off-road.
    >
    > So? You still disturb FAR more habitat than I do.
    >
    > .The one
    > ..time I went to look for an Alameda whipsnake, I almost stepped on
    > .one,
    > ..which was lying in grass growing in the trail, and didn't move until
    > .I
    > ..had almost stepped on it. -Mike Vandeman
    > .
    > ..I wonder how many you killed without noticing, Murderer. And why
    > .are
    > ..you destroying the grass, hypocrite?
    > .
    > ....I don't. I watch where I walk.
    > .
    > .The snake that you almost killed was sitting in grass that you were
    > .about to step on, and destroy.
    >
    > But I didn't. I saw it. A biker would have squashed it.
    >
    > ..Although there are many studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid
    > ..scientific studies specifically on MTBs and their effects on
    > .wildlife.
    > ..- Mike Vandeman
    > .
    > ..Interesting point, LIAR.
    >
    > That was written long ago. Now there is ONE such study.
    >
    > ....What was the date of that statement?
    > .
    > .A long time ago. The point is that you started your
    > ."War Against Mountainbikerism" before you had any research, meaning
    > you .are biased to the point of blindness.
    >
    > BS. I still have observation.
    >
    > ..Mountain bikers can't stand your false version of the truth (lies),
    > ..liar.
    > .
    > ....Quote even ONE "false" statement. (You can't.)
    > .
    > .You twist any truth that you find. I dont have time to find the
    > .quotes, but here is one example:
    > ."All mountan bikers lie." - false statement.
    >
    > You are misquoting me. I have always said that all the ones I have met
    > have lied.
    >
    > .Some mountain bikers lie. -true statement. Maybe you haven't met one
    > .that doesn't lie, but until you have met all of them, you are lying.
    > .
    > .
    > ..You are quite fond of being a hypocrite. You should work on saving
    > .the
    > ..enviroment from yourself, and your fat-A cats. That thing looked
    > .like
    > ..it ate LOTS of birds.
    > .
    > ....No, not even one.
    > .
    > .You have never let your cat outside?
    >
    > Yes, but it didn't eat birds.


    LIAR
    All cats eat birds Duh

    ===
    I am working on creating a newsgroup that is off-limits to
    Vanda-monkeys ("pure logic"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting stupidity and ignorance.)






    >
    > Not even on accident? I find
    > .that very hard to believe.
    > .Plus you have been depriving it of its natural enviroment, outside.
    > .
    > .
    > .Your arguments are endless, yet always the same. Maybe it is time
    > for .you to consider understanding that people that aren't you enjoy
    > things .that you don't enjoy.
    >
    > Of course. Many people enjoy heroin. So what?
    >
    > ."They assume that the most obvious cause (e.g. the developer
    > destroying .habitat, the bicycle or bulldozer killing a whipsnake, the
    > legislator .introducing an anti-environmental amendment, etc.) should
    > be the focus .of our efforts. This is dangerously naive. " - Mike
    > Vandeman .
    > .Maybe you should focus on something positive, instead of always
    > .negative.
    >
    > I do.
    > ===
    > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    > humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    > years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    >
    > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    >
     
  9. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:15:52 GMT, Brewer <[email protected]> wrote:

    ..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
    ..news:[email protected]:
    ..
    ..> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:27:05 +1000, Mr_Kingkillaha
    ..> <[email protected]ingforums.com> wrote:
    ..>
    ..> .
    ..> ..Nice research, you make alot of assumptions without any basis in
    ..> .facts.
    ..> ..It is much easier for hikers to wander off-trail.
    ..> .
    ..> ....Why? Mountain bikers can't WALK? Don't make me laugh. -MV
    ..> .
    ..> .Mountain bikers don't set down thier bikes and wander off trail, DUH.
    ..>
    ..> Why not? Liar.
    ..
    ..
    ..I will say this very slowly so that you can understand
    .."B e c a u s e W e a r e m o u n t a i n b i k e r s, n o
    ..t h i k e r s":

    That doesn't explain anything.

    ..===
    ..I am working on creating a newsgroup that is off-limits to
    ..Vanda-monkeys ("pure logic"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..years fighting stupidity and ignorance.)
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..>
    ..> .Hikers just wander wherever they want, they dont have to worry about
    ..> .hitting trees.
    ..> .
    ..> .
    ..> .
    ..> ..> Who cares? Mountain biking is still very destructive.
    ..
    ..LIAR
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..> ..>
    ..> ..
    ..> ..the bikers do have a point: hiking is still damaging to the
    ..> .environment
    ..> .
    ..> ....Of course. I have always said that. What do you think "off-limits
    ..> .to humans"
    ..> .means?!
    ..> .
    ..> .Yes, I know you have always said that. I quoted your website. The
    ..> .point is you are not setting a good example.
    ..>
    ..> Yes, I am.
    ..>
    ..> ....I hardly do any hiking. But I need to invesitgate mountain bike
    ..> .damage.
    ..> .
    ..> .I thought you had said you hike maybe once a week. Thats more than I
    ..> .am
    ..> .able to bike off-road.
    ..>
    ..> So? You still disturb FAR more habitat than I do.
    ..>
    ..> .The one
    ..> ..time I went to look for an Alameda whipsnake, I almost stepped on
    ..> .one,
    ..> ..which was lying in grass growing in the trail, and didn't move until
    ..> .I
    ..> ..had almost stepped on it. -Mike Vandeman
    ..> .
    ..> ..I wonder how many you killed without noticing, Murderer. And why
    ..> .are
    ..> ..you destroying the grass, hypocrite?
    ..> .
    ..> ....I don't. I watch where I walk.
    ..> .
    ..> .The snake that you almost killed was sitting in grass that you were
    ..> .about to step on, and destroy.
    ..>
    ..> But I didn't. I saw it. A biker would have squashed it.
    ..>
    ..> ..Although there are many studies of ORVs, I am not aware of any solid
    ..> ..scientific studies specifically on MTBs and their effects on
    ..> .wildlife.
    ..> ..- Mike Vandeman
    ..> .
    ..> ..Interesting point, LIAR.
    ..>
    ..> That was written long ago. Now there is ONE such study.
    ..>
    ..> ....What was the date of that statement?
    ..> .
    ..> .A long time ago. The point is that you started your
    ..> ."War Against Mountainbikerism" before you had any research, meaning
    ..> you .are biased to the point of blindness.
    ..>
    ..> BS. I still have observation.
    ..>
    ..> ..Mountain bikers can't stand your false version of the truth (lies),
    ..> ..liar.
    ..> .
    ..> ....Quote even ONE "false" statement. (You can't.)
    ..> .
    ..> .You twist any truth that you find. I dont have time to find the
    ..> .quotes, but here is one example:
    ..> ."All mountan bikers lie." - false statement.
    ..>
    ..> You are misquoting me. I have always said that all the ones I have met
    ..> have lied.
    ..>
    ..> .Some mountain bikers lie. -true statement. Maybe you haven't met one
    ..> .that doesn't lie, but until you have met all of them, you are lying.
    ..> .
    ..> .
    ..> ..You are quite fond of being a hypocrite. You should work on saving
    ..> .the
    ..> ..enviroment from yourself, and your fat-A cats. That thing looked
    ..> .like
    ..> ..it ate LOTS of birds.
    ..> .
    ..> ....No, not even one.
    ..> .
    ..> .You have never let your cat outside?
    ..>
    ..> Yes, but it didn't eat birds.
    ..
    ..LIAR
    .. All cats eat birds Duh
    ..
    ..===
    ..I am working on creating a newsgroup that is off-limits to
    ..Vanda-monkeys ("pure logic"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..years fighting stupidity and ignorance.)
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..>
    ..> Not even on accident? I find
    ..> .that very hard to believe.
    ..> .Plus you have been depriving it of its natural enviroment, outside.
    ..> .
    ..> .
    ..> .Your arguments are endless, yet always the same. Maybe it is time
    ..> for .you to consider understanding that people that aren't you enjoy
    ..> things .that you don't enjoy.
    ..>
    ..> Of course. Many people enjoy heroin. So what?
    ..>
    ..> ."They assume that the most obvious cause (e.g. the developer
    ..> destroying .habitat, the bicycle or bulldozer killing a whipsnake, the
    ..> legislator .introducing an anti-environmental amendment, etc.) should
    ..> be the focus .of our efforts. This is dangerously naive. " - Mike
    ..> Vandeman .
    ..> .Maybe you should focus on something positive, instead of always
    ..> .negative.
    ..>
    ..> I do.
    ..> ===
    ..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    ..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    ..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
    ..>
    ..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
    ..>

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
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