steve26 said:Well it is apparent that the entire tour dopes. So now a world class cyclist must not only train hard, have a great team, but must be able to hide his doping.
No one was more searched than Lance...and he never was caught.
The best...simply the best!
Heras? Hamilton?whiteboytrash said:1. Lance Armstrong, United States, Discovery Channel, 86 hours, 15 minutes, 2 seconds.
2. Ivan Basso, Italy, CSC, 4 minutes, 40 seconds behind.
3. Jan Ullrich, Germany, T-Mobile, 6:21.
4. Francisco Mancebo, Spain, Illes Balears, 9:59.
5. Alexandre Vinokourov, Kazakhstan, T-Mobile, 11:01.
6. Levi Leipheimer, United States, Gerolsteiner, 11:21.
7. Mickael Rasmussen, Denmark, Rabobank, 11:33.
8. Cadel Evans, Australia, Davitamon-Lotto, 11:55.
9. Floyd Landis, United States, Phonak, 12:44.
10. Oscar Pereiro, Spain, Phonak, 16:04.
11. Christophe Moreau, France, Credit Agricole, 16:26.
12. Yaroslav Popovych, Ukraine, Discovery Channel, 19:02.
13. Eddy Mazzoleni, Italy, Lampre, 21:06.
14. George Hincapie, United States, Discovery Channel, 23:40.
Well, not until right after he retired when it was revealed he was using EPO in 1999. I guess Dr. Ferrari forgot to warn him about undetectable dope someday becoming detectable.leerobbs said:It's obvious...he never got caught!
I guess you must have been training in Mexico when the news broke:Bro Deal said:Well, not until right after he retired when it was revealed he was using EPO in 1999. I guess Dr. Ferrari forgot to warn him about undetectable dope someday becoming detectable.
Yeah, right. The Vrijman report was a complete whitewash that never dealt with how EPO came to be found in Armstrong's urine. It's been discredited by WADA and the LNDD because Vrijman never went to the bother of obtaining the information that would have been needed to do a proper investigation. He got his orders from the UCI and assembled a bogus report to support his preformed conclusions.IH8LANCE said:I guess you must have been training in Mexico when the news broke:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/9932.0.html
I doubt you've read it, because it does. But your point is valid. No one knows for sure how it got there, because NO ONE BOTHERED TO MAINTAIN A CHAIN OF CUSTODY OF THE SAMPLES.Bro Deal said:Yeah, right. The Vrijman report was a complete whitewash that never dealt with how EPO came to be found in Armstrong's urine.
This is all well and good. Gee, you'd think with such an outrageous whitewash job by UCI and their dastardly Dutch yes-man, WADA would have countered it with their own.It's been discredited by WADA and the LNDD because Vrijman never went to the bother of obtaining the information that would have been needed to do a proper investigation. He got his orders from the UCI and assembled a bogus report to support his preformed conclusions.
While I am sure he doped, being discredited by LNDD is like Michael Jackson accusing someone of being a pervert.Bro Deal said:Yeah, right. The Vrijman report was a complete whitewash that never dealt with how EPO came to be found in Armstrong's urine. It's been discredited by WADA and the LNDD because Vrijman never went to the bother of obtaining the information that would have been needed to do a proper investigation. He got his orders from the UCI and assembled a bogus report to support his preformed conclusions.
You are falling into the logic of Vrijman's whitewash. He set up a strawman that in order to be positive, the proper protocol had to be followed. But the retro-testing on the 1999 samples was done for research purposes; there was never a requirement to follow the exact protocol. The issue was never whether the EPO found in Armstrong's urine constituted a positive that could lead to a sanction. It could not.; there was no A sample confirmation, so Armstrong could never be punished for his doping.IH8LANCE said:I doubt you've read it, because it does. But your point is valid. No one knows for sure how it got there, because NO ONE BOTHERED TO MAINTAIN A CHAIN OF CUSTODY OF THE SAMPLES.
Good summation.Bro Deal said:You are falling into the logic of Vrijman's whitewash. He set up a strawman that in order to be positive, the proper protocol had to be followed. But the retro-testing on the 1999 samples was done for research purposes; there was never a requirement to follow the exact protocol. The issue was never whether the EPO found in Armstrong's urine constituted a positive that could lead to a sanction. It could not.; there was no A sample confirmation, so Armstrong could never be punished for his doping.
The issue was if EPO was found. It was, and Vrijamn ignored it. Instead he concentrated on a legalistic defense of how the EPO was not a positive under the rules, which was never questioned in the first place.
Armstrong had the opportunity to have the remaining urine DNA tested to see if it was his. He chose not to. There was never one shred of evidence that the samples were not Armstrong's.
amen brothersteve26 said:The best...simply the best in avoiding detection!!!!!!
The Danes knew for years before Riis finally admitted it. They dealt with it in true Danish fashion---a trait they have which is good and not-so-good all at the same time.Tubbs said:Well... if you put it that way...
Honorable Mention goes to
Bjarne "Mr.60%" Riis - Really had nothing on him until he admitted it.
helmutRoole2 said:Good summation.
Lance was great but it seems odd to talk about the best and not mention the man who won the Yellow, Green, and Polkadot jersey his first tour. The man who won every year until they asked him if he would set out to let some supense back into the race. A man who didnt just train for the Tour De France like Lance but raced and won several races each year. You know who.steve26 said:Well it is apparent that the entire tour dopes. So now a world class cyclist must not only train hard, have a great team, but must be able to hide his doping.
No one was more searched than Lance...and he never was caught.
The best...simply the best!
which is why if he DID dope-cheat, then he takes that secret to his grave.wolfix said:I'll tell you why lance is the best .... * he carries rock star status. He was in the area last night and did the cancer speech thing. Chris Matthews [Hardball] did the interview...... But during the ride people were waiting to catch a glimpse of him riding along the 60 mile route. Presidential canidate John Edwards was also on the ride and people could have cared less. Old people , young people, and farmers and yuppies wanted to see Lance......... I had to park 3 blocks away from my own home because of the crowds he brought in...... And hey...... Neither the Grateful Dead nor the Rolling Stones in their prime brought that many people to my neighborhood.
The cancer survivors who meet him had nothing but great things to say about him......
He may be bigger then Jesus.
mm some small thinsg to add:wolfix said:I'll tell you why lance is the best .... * he carries rock star status. He was in the area last night and did the cancer speech thing. Chris Matthews [Hardball] did the interview...... But during the ride people were waiting to catch a glimpse of him riding along the 60 mile route. Presidential canidate John Edwards was also on the ride and people could have cared less. Old people , young people, and farmers and yuppies wanted to see Lance......... I had to park 3 blocks away from my own home because of the crowds he brought in...... And hey...... Neither the Grateful Dead nor the Rolling Stones in their prime brought that many people to my neighborhood.
The cancer survivors who meet him had nothing but great things to say about him......
He may be bigger then Jesus.
* that and the fact he is the best TDF rider of all time.
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