why MTB'ing should not be an environmental target



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N Grover

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hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

Would you conclude that mountain biking should be banned all together? I don't think you have done a
fair evaluation of mountain biking and here is why:

1) Mountain biking itself is not the main contributor to environmental damage, reckless rider are.
2) Responsible riders will ride on pre-existing trials, such as horse trails, cross-country ski
trails etc. I personally don't ever get on my bike and simply plow into the bush and blaze new
trails and I don't think many of us do.
3) To have a swimming pool you have to create a special purpose building which consumes enormous
amounts of energy to heat, chemicals to treat the water etc, transportation to get to the pool
every day. Or running events that require a track that replaces natural areas...and the list goes
on. The great thing about mountain biking is that it gives us an oportunity to enjoy the
intrinsic value of nature which is important for without the enjoyment of wilderness there is one
less motivation to want to protect it. One of the ways to teach childrean about the value of
nature is to show it to them so they can appreciate it's beauty. With my MTB I usually don't have
to drive anywhere and I don't need a special facility (resource hog) to do it.
4) With all the highways, urban development, polution etc you pick on MTB'ing. Ok so just because
there are other bad things in this world doesn't make something else bad OK but it perplexes me
why you would single out MTB'ing among all other sports, including those that don't allow us to
enjoy wilderness (undeniably important) and require special facilities all over the world (bad
for the environment) such as hockey rinks (major CFC emissions).
5) The world may not have as much forest as Canada but don't tell me we don't have room for mountain
biking. Personally I consider it far more important to use less paper and choose to live in the
city instead of sprawling into newly developed areas.

I suppose my point is....yes at some level and because of some radical people, MTB'ing will hurt the
environment but please don't use it as an example sport which overshadows far greater concerns. As
you pointed out, the Olympics itself is one big environmental problem with people flying in from all
over the world, facilities being built, etc. In the end I don't think it will do the world any good
to be in their basement running on treadmills made from recycled egg shells. MTB'ing has a place in
the olympics and in my opinion (all things considered) does not harm the environment any more than
the average sport. May I also point out that the sport of MTB'ing has promoted environmental
stewardardship more than any indoor sport.

-- Neil Grover
 
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:17:31 -0600, N Grover wrote:
> hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.

Mike Vandeman is not going to help the environment any more than you're going to help Mike Vandeman.
Ignore him, he's a meaningless blowhard.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)
 
and finally in response to Mike saying "you have a bike addiction, get over it", I have one thing to
say to you Mike, Bob was just a cat...get over it!! Get my point!
 
good point, i didn't realize Mike Vandeman had posted so much rubish.

He critisized someone for having a bike addiction.....what a compasionless soul....he will get no
where unless he realizes the needs of those whom he lives with in this delicate world, I am sure he
has convinced nobody on this cycling forum by attacking them. If only someone could take away his
addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background research or indepth assesment. Ya know, I
took an environmental science course at University and I gotta say what loose and un-defined
field...rarely used as science it's as much a degree on opinion because in this world we all affect
the environment negatively on a regular basis, including Mike. Mike, have you heard of the term
"sustainable development"? It's a concept that realizes the needs of humans as well as the
environment, i suggest you adopt a similar philosophy before you beat your head into the ground and
realize that mountain biking will continue regardless of what you say. Maybe instead you could make
a positive impact by trying to get you local government to designate MTB'ing areas, or fix wrecked
trails etc. In the mean-time, stop using your PHD status to point fingers and use your science
skills for something more applicatble...like bioremdiation or something. I'll end now by saying you
have sparked an emotion in me that negativly impacts your cause.......keep it up! Sorry for
partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:04:22 +0000, BB wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:17:31 -0600, N Grover wrote:
>> hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.
>
> Mike Vandeman is not going to help the environment any more than you're going to help Mike
> Vandeman. Ignore him, he's a meaningless blowhard.
 
"N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> hmmmm, i appreciate environmental issues.....the world is indeed in grave danger.
>
> Would you conclude that mountain biking should be banned all together? I don't think you have done
> a fair evaluation of mountain biking and here is why:
>
> 1) Mountain biking itself is not the main contributor to environmental damage, reckless rider are.
> 2) Responsible riders will ride on pre-existing trials, such as horse trails, cross-country ski
> trails etc. I personally don't ever get on my bike and simply plow into the bush and blaze new
> trails and I don't think many of us do.
> 3) To have a swimming pool you have to create a special purpose building which consumes enormous
> amounts of energy to heat, chemicals to treat the water etc, transportation to get to the pool
> every day. Or running events that require a track that replaces natural areas...and the list
> goes on. The great thing about mountain biking is that it gives us an oportunity to enjoy the
> intrinsic value of nature which is important for without the enjoyment of wilderness there is
> one less motivation to want to protect it. One of the ways to teach childrean about the value
> of nature is to show it to them so they can appreciate it's beauty. With my MTB I usually don't
> have to drive anywhere and I don't need a special facility (resource hog) to do it.
> 4) With all the highways, urban development, polution etc you pick on MTB'ing. Ok so just because
> there are other bad things in this world doesn't make something else bad OK but it perplexes me
> why you would single out MTB'ing among all other sports, including those that don't allow us to
> enjoy wilderness (undeniably important) and require special facilities all over the world (bad
> for the environment) such as hockey rinks (major CFC emissions).
> 5) The world may not have as much forest as Canada but don't tell me we don't have room for
> mountain biking. Personally I consider it far more important to use less paper and choose to
> live in the city instead of sprawling into newly developed areas.
>
> I suppose my point is....yes at some level and because of some radical people, MTB'ing will hurt
> the environment but please don't use it as an example sport which overshadows far greater
> concerns. As you pointed out, the Olympics itself is one big environmental problem with people
> flying in from all over the world, facilities being built, etc. In the end I don't think it will
> do the world any good to be in their basement running on treadmills made from recycled egg shells.
> MTB'ing has a place in the olympics and in my opinion (all things considered) does not harm the
> environment any more than the average sport. May I also point out that the sport of MTB'ing has
> promoted environmental stewardardship more than any indoor sport.
>
> -- Neil Grover
>

Neil,

Something you should know is that Mike Vandeman is actually a cartoon character. He was dropped
after a brief career with Hanna Barbera in the 70's. His brush with stardom, and subsequent and very
unfortunate crash into to depths of the worst type of animated destituion, have left him bitter
toward the human race. His posts on this NG ooze a deep rooted contempt of all things human,
especially anything to do with humans having fun and staying fit.

But the comical genius that once propelled him briefly to the heights of stardom still often shines
through in his posts as well! The brilliant use of irony is one example. While millions of
automobiles and countless thousands of power plants are belching tons of debris into the air every
day, he voraciously attacks moutain bikers for breaking twigs and displacing a family of squirrels
somewhere in southern Missouri. Brilliant! Countless other examples of irony and other side
splitting, zany rants are posted to this NG nearly daily. Check it out for yourself! Hours of
amusement, free of charge.

:^)
 
Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:19:02 -0800, Slacker wrote:

> "N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:p[email protected]...
>>
>> Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.
>
>
> So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
> --
> Slacker
 
Come on get off it. You ever get eatten up by a hole left by a 4 wheel drive truck or jeep. Now
thats environmental damage. Then wait till spring after all te snow and ice are gone now, you got
small water filled swiming holes in the middle of the trail. Or what hap- pened just a week ago. Due
to these moon craters ,murders that drove a car into the woods with a body in the tunk couldn't go
deep- er in because of this damage. And the car was spotted a flame soon after from the local Target
store parking area. Or what about the new trail head made by some Monster truck. So they enter from
I 95. I spotted that in early spring or was it late winter.

Fire up MTB 03
 
N Grover wrote:

>If only someone could take away his addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background research
>or indepth assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course at University

So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.
http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.3.1
 
On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:19:02 -0800, "Slacker" <[email protected]> wrote:

."N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:p[email protected]... .> .> Sorry for partaking in your
sharade....at this point it feels good. . . .So does maturbating, but it's not something you do
in public!

Good point.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:25:54 +0100, bomba <[email protected]> wrote:

.N Grover wrote: . .>If only someone could take away his .> addiction for attacking MTB'ing with
little background research or indepth .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course
at University . .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.

Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it.

.http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm#1.3.1

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
N Grover murmured while asleep:
> Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.
>
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:19:02 -0800, Slacker wrote:
>
>> "N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:p[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.
>>
>>
>> So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
>> --
>> Slacker

He did have a point... have you read the amb faq yet?

http://bombacommand.iwarp.com/ambfaq.htm
 
"N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Slacker, you might want to expand on the obvious if you have a point to make.
>
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:19:02 -0800, Slacker wrote:
>
> > "N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:p[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Sorry for partaking in your sharade....at this point it feels good.
> >
> >
> > So does maturbating, but it's not something you do in public!
> > --
> > Slacker

Do a Google search in Usenet on the vandyman. Slacker's point has more than one meaning.

JD
 
> He did have a point... have you read the amb faq yet?

well thanks Penny, that was a little more helpful. So I won't masturbate and Mike is a known
wing-nut and should be ignored because his usual response will be something to the tune of "B.S"
(highly appropriate for mr PHD)......got it.

scarry thing is, he was almost my proffessor! i was offered a rowing scholarship at Berkeley where
he taught computer science. I turned it down because I got married and finished my comp-sci degree
here in Canada. At the time i had just finished being on the canadian mtb team for seven
year.........there would have been some serious friction in his class and based on his weak
rationale i'm sure he would have failed me simply for having another opinion.
 
> Half a truth is better than none at all. :)
>
>
actually no, a half truth is not better...how did you ever get through school? here is the
dictionary definition of a half truth and if you think it's "better" than anything all then it helps
explain your attitude and why it does more harm than good.

half truth: "a statement that mingles truth and falsehood with deliberate intent to deceive"

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=half+truth

....I give you an "argument" and you counter with "BS"...good job, thats effective. Your attitude
has definately made a positive impact here on the news group, why don't you try and explain to us
all how it is that you have accomplished anything good by getting MTB'ers to disslike you. And no,
they don't disslike you becaues you are right, they disslike you because like me they came on this
forum only to see insulting posts. Racism happens because of blanket statments such as "Another
typical mountain biker demonstrates their utter ignorance and inability to reason". Sterotypes such
as these are what makes this world a difficult place to live. This is also why environmentalists are
often seen as radical idiots which only hinders their cause. Such radical inconsistencies in your
life must be hard to balance in you head, you would almost have to be schizophrenic. If this world
goes down in flames is as much a result of me as it is you.
 
Mike Vandeman wrote:

> .>If only someone could take away his .> addiction for attacking MTB'ing with little background
> research or indepth .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental science course at University .
> .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating' with Mike.
>
> Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it.

I would have got a first, but failed the section on the impacts of mountain biking. Apparently, I
failed to mention the persistent lying of cyclists. Natch.
 
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 22:11:53 +0100, bomba <[email protected]> wrote:

.Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> .>If only someone could take away his .> .> addiction for attacking
MTB'ing with little background research or indepth .> .> assesment. Ya know, I took an environmental
science course at University .> . .> .So did I, but it counts for nothing when you're 'debating'
with Mike. .> .> Especially since you didn't understand a bit of it. . .I would have got a first,
but failed the section on the impacts of .mountain biking. Apparently, I failed to mention the
persistent lying .of cyclists. Natch.

Yes, that is a fatal flaw.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message If this world goes down in flames
> is as much a result of me as it is you.

How is saving MJV's soul going Neil?

Yet more persuasive arguments, he's sure to crack any minute now!

Chris
 
"ctg" <n/a@n/a.com> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "N Grover" <[email protected]> wrote in message If this world goes down in flames
> > is as much a result of me as it is you.
>
> How is saving MJV's soul going Neil?

He's still blind to the uselessness of arguing with that psycho. How does it feel to be retarded
Neil? Is your last name Strickland? If you are a mountain biker, just shut the hell up and ride.

JD
 
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