Why no internal gears on Bianchi Castro Valley?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by [email protected], Jan 11, 2006.

  1. Hiya:
    While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.

    Robert Leone, [email protected], hoping to improve the signal to noise
    ratio.
     
    Tags:


  2. gooserider

    gooserider Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hiya:
    > While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    > model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    > commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    > 8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.
    >
    > Robert Leone, [email protected], hoping to improve the signal to noise
    > ratio.


    The Nexus hub on the Castro Valley would be an ideal situation. The San Jose
    with the Nexus hub could be an excellent commuter, since it has eyelets for
    rack/fenders----except Bianchi stupidly specced it with rear entry horiz.
    dropouts. That makes removing the rear wheel on a fendered bike much more
    difficult. The Castro Valley has regular horizontal dropouts, so it would be
    much easier. I'm not keen on buying a Castro Valley then converting it to a
    Nexus hub. Come on, Bianchi, think before you do these things! If the San
    Jose had the CV's dropouts I would have one yesterday.
     
  3. SMS

    SMS Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Hiya:
    > While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    > model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    > commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    > 8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.


    There are plenty of commute bicycles with internal hubs, dynamo lights,
    chain guards, and fenders. As to why Bianchi didn't choose to put those
    on the Castro Valley, I presume the reason was cost.

    Steve
    http://commutebike.com/
     
  4. landotter

    landotter Guest

    If you're in an average city in the US there are zero commute bikes
    with internal gearing to be had.

    I'm seriously thinking about just grabbing a Marin Belvedere, and
    rebuilding the rear wheel on a Nexus hub when the Sora mech wears out.
    :p

    The only fairly common internally geared bikes in the US (please
    correct me if I'm wrong):

    Bianchi Milano
    Various Breezer bikes
    REI Fusion
    Trek L200/300

    I'm in a city of a million, and there's not a shop that stocks any of
    them, though they can special order--who wants to prepay for a bike
    they can't test ride?
     
  5. SMS

    SMS Guest

    landotter wrote:
    > If you're in an average city in the US there are zero commute bikes
    > with internal gearing to be had.
    >
    > I'm seriously thinking about just grabbing a Marin Belvedere, and
    > rebuilding the rear wheel on a Nexus hub when the Sora mech wears out.
    > :p
    >
    > The only fairly common internally geared bikes in the US (please
    > correct me if I'm wrong):
    >
    > Bianchi Milano
    > Various Breezer bikes
    > REI Fusion
    > Trek L200/300
    >
    > I'm in a city of a million, and there's not a shop that stocks any of
    > them, though they can special order--who wants to prepay for a bike
    > they can't test ride?


    Kettler City Tour
    Various Dahon models
    Various Brompton models

    But yes, it's extremely rare to find any of these at bike shops in most
    areas.

    If I were a manufacturer that sold through dealers, I'd at least send
    them one as a demo unit.
     
  6. On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:34:28 -0800, rleone wrote:

    > Hiya:
    > While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    > model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    > commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    > 8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.
    >
    > Robert Leone, [email protected], hoping to improve the signal to noise
    > ratio.


    I just took a Shimano Nexus 7-speed off of my commuter. This hub is, IMO,
    less than ideal. The reliability is not sufficient to use on a commuter
    that will be exposed to rain/snow/ice.

    Under strain, the shifter lever will sometimes rotate (backwards), which
    screws up shifting. Once that happens, you risk gear skipping, which can
    result in pain.

    I originally bought the hub to use on a light-use tandem, but this problem
    made its use there unwise. I want to encourage my wife to ride, and
    having the gears screw up does not help. Then I put it on my
    rain-commuter, but continued to have this problem. It seems to mess up
    the shifting when you climb hard on it. Out of the saddle, etc.

    In all, the lower gears for climbing were not that advantageous, due to
    the extra weight and the loss of efficiency, and the poor reliability made
    it not worth bothering with.

    I switched to a single-speed freewheel on an old road hub and have been
    much happier with it.


    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can
    _`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  7. landotter

    landotter Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:

    > I just took a Shimano Nexus 7-speed off of my commuter. This hub is, IMO,
    > less than ideal. The reliability is not sufficient to use on a commuter
    > that will be exposed to rain/snow/ice.


    I did four Chicago winters with mine, and my uncle has done nearly a
    decade of salty Gothenburg winters with his--neither of us has ever had
    an issue with our hubs that wasn't simply an issue of quickly adjusting
    the cable tension.

    If the Shimano hub truly was unreliable, a crapload of bike commuters
    in western Europe would be bitching about these hubs, as they're
    ubiquitous in Holland, Sweden, and other bike savvy countries.

    Perhaps you got a bad hub, or it was adjusted wrong. Personally, I've
    ridden SA hubs, SS bikes, and all kinds of derailleurs, indexed and
    not, from the mid 70s onward--and not found a more reliable shifting
    mechanism than the Nexus.

    Mine seemed to get better with age, and was shifting more quietly and
    smoothly at around 20K miles than when new.
     
  8. SMS

    SMS Guest

    David L. Johnson wrote:
    > On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:34:28 -0800, rleone wrote:
    >
    >> Hiya:
    >> While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    >> model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    >> commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    >> 8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.
    >>
    >> Robert Leone, [email protected], hoping to improve the signal to noise
    >> ratio.

    >
    > I just took a Shimano Nexus 7-speed off of my commuter. This hub is, IMO,
    > less than ideal. The reliability is not sufficient to use on a commuter
    > that will be exposed to rain/snow/ice.
    >
    > Under strain, the shifter lever will sometimes rotate (backwards), which
    > screws up shifting. Once that happens, you risk gear skipping, which can
    > result in pain.


    I agree. I am less than impressed with the Nexus 7 speed on my Dahon. If
    I bought a new commute bike, it would probably be the Specialized Globe,
    if it is still made.
     
  9. landotter

    landotter Guest

    One thing I've noticed about the Nexus 7 is that folks with the
    "rapidfire" style shifter seem to get crisper shifting than the
    gripshift crowd. Pure speculation of course. :p
     
  10. The Wogster

    The Wogster Guest

    SMS wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> Hiya:
    >> While I'm in the Castro Valley mode, why no internal gears on this
    >> model? Between an IG rear and the dyno front with the light, it'd be a
    >> commuting maven's dream. I see Sheldon Brown and shop are putting Nexus
    >> 8 speed hubs on the Castro Valley's cousin, the San Jose.

    >
    >
    > There are plenty of commute bicycles with internal hubs, dynamo lights,
    > chain guards, and fenders. As to why Bianchi didn't choose to put those
    > on the Castro Valley, I presume the reason was cost.


    Would there be an advantage in different brakes as well, say use an
    integrated coaster brake on the back and a disc brake up front?

    W
     
  11. David L. Johnson wrote:

    > I just took a Shimano Nexus 7-speed off of my commuter. This hub is, IMO,
    > less than ideal.


    What isn't?

    > The reliability is not sufficient to use on a commuter
    > that will be exposed to rain/snow/ice.
    >
    > Under strain, the shifter lever will sometimes rotate (backwards), which
    > screws up shifting. Once that happens, you risk gear skipping, which can
    > result in pain.


    I've sold a lot of these hubs, own 3 Nexi myself, a 7-speed and two
    8-speeds. I commuted on one of the 8-speeds today.

    I have never before heard of anybody having this problem with a Nexus
    hub. My guess is that there is something wrong with your installation,
    either:

    •You don't have the correct anti-rotation washers on the axle or

    •Your dropout slots have been damaged so that it no longer mates
    properly with the anti-rotation washers's tabs or

    •You have not properly lubricated and tightened the axle nuts or

    •You're running an excessively low sprocket ratio, thus applying too
    much torque to the hub.

    I must admit that I like the 8-speed model a LOT better than the
    7-speed, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

    It has become my favorite gear shifting system for situations that don't
    require an extremely wide gear range. Since I installed one on my old
    Raleigh International, that bike has become my favorite ride.

    (Just put up some new pix today:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-international )

    Sheldon "Nexophile" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | The man with a new idea is a Crank until the idea succeeds. |
    | . --Mark Twain |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  12. On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:35:26 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > I have never before heard of anybody having this problem with a Nexus
    > hub. My guess is that there is something wrong with your installation,
    > either:
    >
    > •You don't have the correct anti-rotation washers on the axle or
    >

    I have what was there when I got it, only one anti-rotation washer, on the
    right side.

    •Your dropout slots have been damaged so that it no
    longer mates
    > properly with the anti-rotation washers's tabs


    It seems to be OK, but it is an old bike.

    > •You have not properly lubricated and tightened the axle nuts or


    I got them as tight as I could with a peanut-butter wrench.
    >
    > •You're running an excessively low sprocket ratio, thus applying too
    > much torque to the hub.


    Ah. That may have something to do with it. I have a 48 on the front, and
    a larger-than-standard sprocket in the back. That along with only one
    anti-rotation washer (but I understand they only came with one) might be
    enough to make a difference. I seem to recall that, with these sprockets,
    4th was less than 70 gear inches; maybe 67.

    > I must admit that I like the 8-speed model a LOT better than the
    > 7-speed, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.


    Well, I never felt that the lower gears gave me enough added advantage; I
    suspect that the lower gears are not the most efficient; when efficiency
    drops to 80% or so, it can seem like a significantly higher gear than it
    is. I really do much prefer the bike now, with a single-speed freewheel.
    Simpler, no shifter, and no problems. It's a low enough gear for the
    commute, which is the bike's purpose in life.

    I am selling the hub to one of the other participants on this thread; I
    hope we're both happier that way.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
    _`\(,_ |
    (_)/ (_) |
     
  13. "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    David L. Johnson wrote:

    > I just took a Shimano Nexus 7-speed off of my commuter. This hub is, IMO,
    > less than ideal.


    What isn't?

    > The reliability is not sufficient to use on a commuter
    > that will be exposed to rain/snow/ice.
    > Under strain, the shifter lever will sometimes rotate (backwards), which
    > screws up shifting. Once that happens, you risk gear skipping, which can
    > result in pain.


    I've sold a lot of these hubs, own 3 Nexi myself, a 7-speed and two
    8-speeds. I commuted on one of the 8-speeds today.

    I have never before heard of anybody having this problem with a Nexus
    hub. My guess is that there is something wrong with your installation,
    either:

    ..You don't have the correct anti-rotation washers on the axle or

    ..Your dropout slots have been damaged so that it no longer mates
    properly with the anti-rotation washers's tabs or

    ..You have not properly lubricated and tightened the axle nuts or

    ..You're running an excessively low sprocket ratio, thus applying too
    much torque to the hub.

    I must admit that I like the 8-speed model a LOT better than the
    7-speed, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

    It has become my favorite gear shifting system for situations that don't
    require an extremely wide gear range. Since I installed one on my old
    Raleigh International, that bike has become my favorite ride.

    (Just put up some new pix today:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/raleigh-international )
    Sheldon "Nexophile" Brown
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+
    | The man with a new idea is a Crank until the idea succeeds. |
    | . --Mark Twain |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------+

    Nice unique bike,
    Now is that considered a bar-end shifter or the Mark Twain shifter?
    -tom
     
  14. I observed:

    >>I have never before heard of anybody having this problem with a Nexus
    >>hub. My guess is that there is something wrong with your installation,
    >>either:
    >>
    >>•You don't have the correct anti-rotation washers on the axle or
    >>

    David L. Johnson replied:
    >
    > I have what was there when I got it, only one anti-rotation washer, on the
    > right side.


    It's better to use two, as these hubs are now supplied. Earlier
    versions did only come with one anti-rotation washer.

    >>•You have not properly lubricated and tightened the axle nuts or

    >
    >
    > I got them as tight as I could with a peanut-butter wrench.


    And had you lubricated the threads and the nut/washer interface?

    >>•You're running an excessively low sprocket ratio, thus applying too
    >>much torque to the hub.

    >
    >
    > Ah. That may have something to do with it. I have a 48 on the front, and
    > a larger-than-standard sprocket in the back. That along with only one
    > anti-rotation washer (but I understand they only came with one) might be
    > enough to make a difference. I seem to recall that, with these sprockets,
    > 4th was less than 70 gear inches; maybe 67.


    That's not so terribly low that it should cause a problem. My Nexus 8
    runs 52/18, and didn't slip even when I was using it on a tandem.
    >
    >>I must admit that I like the 8-speed model a LOT better than the
    >>7-speed, for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

    >
    > Well, I never felt that the lower gears gave me enough added advantage;I
    > suspect that the lower gears are not the most efficient; when efficiency
    > drops to 80% or so, it can seem like a significantly higher gear than it
    > is.


    My perception of the efficience of these hubs is that they're nothing
    like that inefficient.

    When I first got my Nexus 7, it replaced a Sturmey-Archer FM 4-speed,
    and my perception was that the Nexus was notably more efficient. I
    never noticed any apparent difference in efficiency from one gear to
    another on the Nexi.

    > I really do much prefer the bike now, with a single-speed freewheel.
    > Simpler, no shifter, and no problems. It's a low enough gear for the
    > commute, which is the bike's purpose in life.


    That's dandy if you don't need the gears. Lately I've been needing
    gears more than I used to, for medical reasons...

    Sheldon "Neck's Us" Brown
    +-----------------------------------------------+
    | Many workmen |
    | Built a huge ball of masonry |
    | Upon a mountaintop. |
    | Then they went to the valley below, |
    | And turned to behold their work. |
    | "It is grand," they said; |
    | They loved the thing. |
    | |
    | Of a sudden, it moved: |
    | It came upon them swiftly; |
    | It crushed them all to blood. |
    | But some had opportunity to squeal. |
    | --Stephen Crane |
    +-----------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  15. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 15:05:40 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

    > And had you lubricated the threads and the nut/washer interface?


    The threads, yeah, but the nut/washer, no.

    > That's not so terribly low that it should cause a problem. My Nexus 8
    > runs 52/18, and didn't slip even when I was using it on a tandem.


    Well, I think I had a 48/20 or maybe 48/19, but the one anti-rotation
    washer probably makes that worse.

    > My perception of the efficience of these hubs is that they're nothing
    > like that inefficient.
    >

    I remember reading specs at some point, but can't find them now. At any
    rate, most of the gears had efficiencies in the 80%-90% range.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
    _`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
    (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
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