Why the Lance obsession on this fourm ?



LOL soccer in a million years. THAT is the biggest sport in the world.....and certainly in EUROPE. A division 2 club in Holland can beat most big soccer clubs in america......

As I said in another thread you are lucky that you have some good american riders in the peloton. But when lance, landis, leipheimer, julich retire......it will be quiet for a long time from american side......


ds0709 said:
Dude, are you for real? Why do you think we talk about Lance? Is it because another American put his mind to something and kicked everyone in Europe's ass at it? What's next, soccer? Maybe cricket?
 
A Brit that sees sense! Respect to you lol. I totally agree with what you've written.

whiteboytrash said:
Why is everyone on this forum obsessed with Lance and the Tour de France ? I'm not sure if any of you saw the Giro but the second to last stage to Sestriere had to be one of the most amazing stages I have ever seen. To see Gilberto Simoni and Danilo Di Luca put down the hammer to that anonymous bloke from Discovery was great. I have never watched 3 hours of cycling and been enthralled by every minute of it. Watching all of the hand signals the conversations between the riders gave a great insight into the sport. Three things to stick in my mind was 1. Salvodelli frantically waving at the team car down the mountain to bring some water 2. Simoni chatting to Di Luca and giving him the elbow wave every time he needed him to come through and take a turn 3. The Lampre team car pulling along side Di Luca and giving him some water for all of his hard efforts in pulling Simoni up the mountain.



You just don’t see good racing like this in the Tour because the peleton has too much control from the bigger teams (namely Discovery/USPS) and a lot of riders could learn from Simoni and Di Luca for putting their GC places on the line in a chance to ride for overall victory. Simoni and Di Luca rode for over 40km on their own at a outside chance of winning the Giro in contrast to Armstrong who rode only 15km on the front for the entire Tour in 2004. Now can you see the difference between good racing and bad racing ? I just hope that this year that the others try and ride to win rather than protecting GC. (Jen's Voight you have been warned ride for Discovery again and your nation will disown you !) (also remember us Europeans have a romance with the sport and we like a leaders and winners to lead from the front and show themselves and true fighters and winners. Not to hide in the pack to ride the last 5km on your own.)



So stop the threads about 'Will Lance win the tour' and take a look around you as there is some great racing going on and you are all missing it with your obsessions about one man. Remember in Belgium and Holland no one in bike racing really cares about Lance or the Tour as the one day races mean more to them.



Here's to some good racing in 2005 and positive discussions not the boring repetitive mundane cra* we have been seeing and hearing on these pages. Come on !



WBT out.

 
Dead Star said:
A Brit that sees sense! Respect to you lol. I totally agree with what you've written.

Why does Lance garner this obsessive attention?
Actually an interesting question.
Lance has always gone for the big show and tried to shine and get attention, but even he didnt see it coming after winning the first tour.

He had agents, book people etc but they didnt see it coming either.

People who know him from way back, like Phil Liggett try to explain it. Phil said that you could be in a crowded room full of famous people at a cocktail party with your back to the door, when Lance walks in you feel it. He has some extraordinary personal charisma or vibe that people sense and respond to.

Its both on the bike and off. I saw him give a talk at the Ride for the Roses before he reached this level of rock star celebrity, the guy is truly interesting to listen to. Its weird, but I think that when Salvodelli wins, even when he rides a great race, it just isnt as interesting. Of course Lance rides with more panache and likes to put on a show, like Alpe d'Huez in 2001, the look the whole deal...but thats just part of it.

I dont know, what do others think?
 
whiteboytrash said:
Simoni and Di Luca rode for over 40km on their own at a outside chance of winning the Giro in contrast to Armstrong who rode only 15km on the front for the entire Tour in 2004. Now can you see the difference between good racing and bad racing ? I just hope that this year that the others try and ride to win rather than protecting GC. 9also remember us Europeans have a romance with the sport and we like a leaders and winners to lead from the front and show themselves and true fighters and winners. Not to hide in the pack to ride the last 5km on your own.)
I've grown rather tired of this suggestion that robo-Lance or any of the other pre-race favorites are to be criticized if they ride in a manner designed to have them on the top of the podium on the last day rather than "romance" the sport. The point of competing is to win within the rules, and no one has ever done that in Le Tour as well as Armstrong. If you think the players should be fellating their handlebars in love with the sport rather than making judicious use of their teammates and their own physical reserves in finding a way to the ultimate goal, that's your opinion. You can have your romantic "leaders and fighters". The rest of us will take a steady, heady, shrewd, and occasionally fierce Armstrong as a model to emulate on the bike.

(In the meantime, I don't know what more you want some of these riders to do to satisfy your sense of the dramatic. So Armstrong hasn't been out front where you prefer to see your heros. Instead, he's been dodging his fallen rivals by biking through fields on a perilous descent, being toppled by stray shopping bag handles, faking exhaustion and then blowing past the gallant but hapless Ullrich, withstanding dehydration to lose only precious seconds to Ullrich in a desperate time-trial scenario, powering past an astonished Kloden to win in Grand Bornand in retribution to the German fans who spat on him the day before on Alpe D'Huez, chasing down Simeoni to swat him out of a breakway in another spiteful retort, etc. etc. etc. For better or worse, there's not another rider in the peleton these days that has been that much fun to watch, in my opinion anyway.)

Finally, I would suggest it's easy for you to say that the GC contenders need to be out front attacking at every opportunity. Who would let them? Cycling times have changed since the Cannibal was around, and besides, there was no one capable of marking the great Eddy consistently when he was in his prime and decided to go. These days in France in July, everyone, and I mean everyone, knows exactly where Armstrong (and Ullrich . . . and Vino . . . etc.) is at every moment. Any attempt by him to breakaway or engage in one of the reckless escapades you find so "romantic" would be met with instant retaliation by all his rivals. The only way for a marked man to win a tour these days is to be great in the time trials, where group tactics cannot be used to neutralize a star, and to excel in the mountains by using your team as long as possible and then by showing your cards on ascent finishes. No one does this on a consistent basis as well as Armstrong these days, and that's why he's a six-time Tour winner and your heros like Simoni and Di Luca are mere mortals.

Point is, if you're a pre-Tour contender these days, no one is going to let you ride out front for very long unless you're down in the GC by double-digit minutes.

I'm no Armstrong fanatic, and like many others, I would love to have seen him expand his horizons by doing the other grand tours on occasion, or more of the Classics. But I must begrudgingly and definitively acknowledge the man's unparallelled ability to doggedly focus on his one true goal every year, and achieve it. That's a quality to admire above and beyond the guy who goes out front and throws caution to the wind. Unless, of course, your goal is to appeal to the "romance" of the sport rather than to finish first at the end of the month.

End of diatribe.
 
Dead Star said:
Liggett loves Armstrong, biased opinion.

No, Liggett loves Armstrong, opinion.

For better or for worse, Lance has had a huge impact on cycling. Training, getting sponsorship, even basic technique - high pedal rpm's are becoming the rule rather than the exception. There aren't many cyclists who have changed the sport as much as he has. That's worth talking about.

And we've seen some classic moments in the last few years, that have become part of cycling legend. Armstrong vs Ullrich, Alpe d'Huez 2001. Are you coming or not? And the answer is - not!
 
...and with that they (those Americans) will lose their interest with the sport we love..... its about passion and romance not flying the flag... big difference... but you would never know...... think about it......

MJtje said:
LOL soccer in a million years. THAT is the biggest sport in the world.....and certainly in EUROPE. A division 2 club in Holland can beat most big soccer clubs in america......

As I said in another thread you are lucky that you have some good american riders in the peloton. But when lance, landis, leipheimer, julich retire......it will be quiet for a long time from american side......
 
That was great..... just the debate we needed to have..... I salute what you wrote.... it so very true and poignant..... I rest my case with you..... althought where is the demarcation ?


rejobako said:
I've grown rather tired of this suggestion that robo-Lance or any of the other pre-race favorites are to be criticized if they ride in a manner designed to have them on the top of the podium on the last day rather than "romance" the sport. The point of competing is to win within the rules, and no one has ever done that in Le Tour as well as Armstrong. If you think the players should be fellating their handlebars in love with the sport rather than making judicious use of their teammates and their own physical reserves in finding a way to the ultimate goal, that's your opinion. You can have your romantic "leaders and fighters". The rest of us will take a steady, heady, shrewd, and occasionally fierce Armstrong as a model to emulate on the bike.

(In the meantime, I don't know what more you want some of these riders to do to satisfy your sense of the dramatic. So Armstrong hasn't been out front where you prefer to see your heros. Instead, he's been dodging his fallen rivals by biking through fields on a perilous descent, being toppled by stray shopping bag handles, faking exhaustion and then blowing past the gallant but hapless Ullrich, withstanding dehydration to lose only precious seconds to Ullrich in a desperate time-trial scenario, powering past an astonished Kloden to win in Grand Bornand in retribution to the German fans who spat on him the day before on Alpe D'Huez, chasing down Simeoni to swat him out of a breakway in another spiteful retort, etc. etc. etc. For better or worse, there's not another rider in the peleton these days that has been that much fun to watch, in my opinion anyway.)

Finally, I would suggest it's easy for you to say that the GC contenders need to be out front attacking at every opportunity. Who would let them? Cycling times have changed since the Cannibal was around, and besides, there was no one capable of marking the great Eddy consistently when he was in his prime and decided to go. These days in France in July, everyone, and I mean everyone, knows exactly where Armstrong (and Ullrich . . . and Vino . . . etc.) is at every moment. Any attempt by him to breakaway or engage in one of the reckless escapades you find so "romantic" would be met with instant retaliation by all his rivals. The only way for a marked man to win a tour these days is to be great in the time trials, where group tactics cannot be used to neutralize a star, and to excel in the mountains by using your team as long as possible and then by showing your cards on ascent finishes. No one does this on a consistent basis as well as Armstrong these days, and that's why he's a six-time Tour winner and your heros like Simoni and Di Luca are mere mortals.

Point is, if you're a pre-Tour contender these days, no one is going to let you ride out front for very long unless you're down in the GC by double-digit minutes.

I'm no Armstrong fanatic, and like many others, I would love to have seen him expand his horizons by doing the other grand tours on occasion, or more of the Classics. But I must begrudgingly and definitively acknowledge the man's unparallelled ability to doggedly focus on his one true goal every year, and achieve it. That's a quality to admire above and beyond the guy who goes out front and throws caution to the wind. Unless, of course, your goal is to appeal to the "romance" of the sport rather than to finish first at the end of the month.

End of diatribe.
 
I know..........In holland were no way patriotic or whatever you might think.......france and America are. Just there way.......and ofcourse it's about passion for us in EUROPE! The fact is a lot of people of america (not everyone) is a fan BECAUSE of armstrong. Ever heard the story's of TdGA were they asked the public who csc was.......no we just came for LANCE. That is just the general view..........so I do know. But somehow if you live in europe and like the way armstrong rides it's not done........

Btw are you guys voting for the european constitution or is the general view in the UK also a NOOOOOOOO! Pretty clear in Holland 63% NO!


whiteboytrash said:
...and with that they (those Americans) will lose their interest with the sport we love..... its about passion and romance not flying the flag... big difference... but you would never know...... think about it......
 
Its a big 'no' in the UK as well..... sad really I think it would be good if we joined the 'euro'....... I hope France and Germany dont drop out as has been touted.....

MJtje said:
I know..........In holland were no way patriotic or whatever you might think.......france and America are. Just there way.......and ofcourse it's about passion for us in EUROPE! The fact is a lot of people of america (not everyone) is a fan BECAUSE of armstrong. Ever heard the story's of TdGA were they asked the public who csc was.......no we just came for LANCE. That is just the general view..........so I do know. But somehow if you live in europe and like the way armstrong rides it's not done........

Btw are you guys voting for the european constitution or is the general view in the UK also a NOOOOOOOO! Pretty clear in Holland 63% NO!
 
France allready voted No with 59%........so the european constitution probably won't go as it is now. It must be changed really big will there be ONE europe.



whiteboytrash said:
Its a big 'no' in the UK as well..... sad really I think it would be good if we joined the 'euro'....... I hope France and Germany dont drop out as has been touted.....
 
How awesome is this forum ? We go from Lance bashing to the Euro constitution in one easy step ! :D :D :D

MJtje said:
France allready voted No with 59%........so the european constitution probably won't go as it is now. It must be changed really big will there be ONE europe.
 
Those are the best forums were you can talk about everything, politics, sports in general...etc....:D



whiteboytrash said:
How awesome is this forum ? We go from Lance bashing to the Euro constitution in one easy step ! :D :D :D
 
agreed ! The most intelligent people can speak on all topics !......are you from France ? :D

MJtje said:
Those are the best forums were you can talk about everything, politics, sports in general...etc....:D
 
Lol, I'm from a tiny country next to yours.....were everyone cycles and has an opinion;)



whiteboytrash said:
agreed ! The most intelligent people can speak on all topics !......are you from France ? :D
 
Lol, I'm not the one dressed as mexican during the tour;) Why do people go to see 3 sec........I never understand. Or is it some culture bonding thing.....or just seeing the atmosphere.

Watching on tv is for me better.......Aaah well maybe the only place that would be fun is alpe d'huez seeing to many countrymen go nuts and all drunk!


whiteboytrash said:
Jammon ! I guess you had to give up smoking but not the drinking !
 
Agreed its way better on TV as you can see the entire race unfold but like I said on the other thread its the atmosphere of the day, the cultural bonding and all that...... also people who live near or on the race circuit will come out of there houses to view..... you should get dressed up as a Mexican and got out on route ! Nothing like drinking red wine in 35 degree heat ! :eek:


MJtje said:
Lol, I'm not the one dressed as mexican during the tour;) Why do people go to see 3 sec........I never understand. Or is it some culture bonding thing.....or just seeing the atmosphere.

Watching on tv is for me better.......Aaah well maybe the only place that would be fun is alpe d'huez seeing to many countrymen go nuts and all drunk!
 
MJtje said:
Aaah well maybe the only place that would be fun is alpe d'huez seeing to many countrymen go nuts and all drunk!

Ja, you guys even have your own corner, how cool is that?

We got the guys on horseback with the flags and dommeklotten with big horn hats.
 
Alpe d'huez is the dutch mountain.........we won a lot on it. And july is vacation time for a lot of dutch people. And 75% of the dutch people go on vacation in france (why: because it has everything). So that's why u see so many dutch people in the alps. However if the tour goes through perynees it's orange too but that orange is basque. Somehow the perynees are not popular....(strange because it is a nice area)

DiabloScott said:
Ja, you guys even have your own corner, how cool is that?

We got the guys on horseback with the flags and dommeklotten with big horn hats.