wieght training and cycling



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swampy1970 said:
I should have gone to bed and got some beauty sleep but....

338451570_xk5E2-O.jpg

All posts with xkcd cartoons in them automatically win.
 
Chapeau! said:
Now the riddles are out of the way...

Could you please explain to me how Tony Martin develops the ability to turn bigger gears, produce greater forces at higher cadences?.

Remember, hes got these huge thighs which can't be developed from cycling alone.

Its not like he has a pair of hydraulic pumps that are hard wired into his CNS?.

I addressed your idiotic claim about power not meaning "$hit." As for Tony Martin's training regimen, he hasn't called me to let me know what it is, much like he hasn't called you. I'm sure though that you think you've found the key, given your vast experience pontificating over Google results.
Now the riddles are out of the way..
Your response highlights your lack of knowledge, namely you have no clue how power relates to a drive train. Instead of addressing the point head-on, you make a completely unrelated statement so as to draw attention away from your ignorance. Seems a standard M.O. for you, at least in this thread.
 
Chapeau! said:
Remember, hes got some of biggest thighs in the peleton, which can't be developed from cycling alone.

Yes and no. My friend who raced in Switzerland when Cancellara was a junior said he was a pretty big boy then as well. You still haven't supplied us with any evidence that he does weight training in season.

My rider who went from road to track and has put on 5 kg of muscle in 5 months without any gym work.
 
fergie said:
Yes and no. My friend who raced in Switzerland when Cancellara was a junior said he was a pretty big boy then as well. You still haven't supplied us with any evidence that he does weight training in season.

My rider who went from road to track and has put on 5 kg of muscle in 5 months without any gym work.

I was 6'4" tall, 168 lbs (195 cm, 76kg) before I started cycling. I never did any leg weight training in my life. Now I am 175 lbs (79kg), and my body fat % is the same as before. I was (and still am) very skinny, but my legs got bigger. Now I'm not saying that all 7 pounds went to my legs, but I don't work out, I don't eat much, and every other body part on me hasn't changed, only my legs.
 
Kinematic Analysis of the Powerlifting Style Squat and the C... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

The kinematics of the deadlift and squat are different. Two different movements that require different training approaches.

Using Squat Testing to Predict Training Loads for the Deadli... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

Squat can be used to predict deadlift, lunge, leg extension weights but are not directly related. Different movements that require different training approaches. Now if one was training for the squat it seems apparent that the best exercise to train the squat is the squat itself. So the best exercise to train cycling is...???

An electromyographic analysis of sumo and conventional style... : Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise

Different muscle activation (CNS message to the muscle) between the Sumo and Normal Deadlift. For rehab choose which muscles you wish to target when choosing which deadlift you will perform. So if the same exercise is so different based on hand position on the bar it would a pretty big call to suggest that muscle activation from any non cycling activity would have any effect on ones cycling performance.

Especially when you consider that performance on the hills does not transfer to performance on the track where the position on the bike and cadence used vary so greatly. This is why the British Sprint Team spend the most money on buying track time at Manchester or the ACF spend money buying spots for their young pursuiters on Garmin conditional that they can take them away from the team 4-13 weeks out from Major Track Events so they can perform more specific training.
 
tonyzackery said:
Admittedly, I didn't bother looking at those links as I deduced (correctly, it appears) that they were full opinion, theory, and speculation...Thanks for keeping me from wasting my time...

Could this come back to bite you on the ass?, via cat.3 racing, sure.

quenya said:
Dot, that's not at all surprising to me. I had the exact same results, on a road bike, after core training. I won't go so far as to say that enough time on the bike couldn't have produced the same results but I know how much progress I made in a short period of time and I am certain I would not be where I am in my training if I hadn't trained my core off the bike.

Wow! What a turn around.

So not all specificity, specificity, specificity!.

gman0482 said:
I was 6'4" tall, 168 lbs (195 cm, 76kg) before I started cycling. I never did any leg weight training in my life. Now I am 175 lbs (79kg), and my body fat % is the same as before. I was (and still am) very skinny, but my legs got bigger. Now I'm not saying that all 7 pounds went to my legs, but I don't work out, I don't eat much, and every other body part on me hasn't changed, only my legs.

I'm guessing since you took up cycling, you ate considerably more than before, hence a gain in weight.

fergs said:
My rider who went from road to track and has put on 5 kg of muscle in 5 months without any gym work.

Which event?.

It could be due to a significant drop in mileage.

swamps said:
I did a google search for that. Looking it up once was enough...

The side-stepping legend re-emerges. Find the year, then your qualified to promote your claim.

fergs said:
Nice side step Chapps.

Side stepped?.:confused: I was just exposing you as a fraud for knowledge. :D

Why your wrong to use the the progressive overload system.

As the weights grow heavier, the force factor comes into play. Slowly but surely, you lose that all-important factor - velocity.
So as you can see, with the progressive overload system, it is impossible to maintain max force and velocity simultaneously.

This the case with Andy Bolton, who uses sub-maximal weights & moves the bar very fast in training. His DVD is a great insight into how you can develop world class strength. I can give you the torrent download link to his DVD if you want it fergs.
 
Chapeau! said:
I'm guessing since you took up cycling, you ate considerably more than before, hence a gain in weight.

No. I work everyday, and stick to the same routine. I know what and when I eat and nothing has changed.

Here's a question for you,

Why did my legs grow muscle, and I never ever lifted a single pound of weight ?
 
tonyzackery said:
about those Google image searched photos of pro endurance cyclists hoisting the big weights you were going to post...oh yeah, the month and year of that cherry-picked LA photo doing the squat...oh yeah again, still waitin' on that pic of your mammoth gams and your current racing category...thanks again, Chappy ol' boy...;)

Better yet, Youtube "The Electric Slide" - you can add a few new 'side stepping' moves to your repertoire...:D


Thanks in advance for your cooperation with this request...

Chappy, oh Chappy...
 
Chapeau! said:
Could this come back to bite you on the ass?, via cat.3 racing, sure.

Says the Armchair Troll. Do you even ride a bike.

Which event?.

It could be due to a significant drop in mileage.
Teams Pursuit. We did keep the mileage and road racing pretty high right up till they left for Italy 3 weeks out from Jnr Worlds.

Side stepped?.:confused: I was just exposing you as a fraud for knowledge. :D
For confusing the local Eastside gym with Louie's Westside Gym. Well my bad bad bad:p

Why your wrong to use the the progressive overload system.

As the weights grow heavier, the force factor comes into play. Slowly but surely, you lose that all-important factor - velocity.
Why do you assume that progressive overload does not apply to velocity. If my sprinters are going 65kph for 200m then to progressively overload them we would aim for 66kph. I would prefer to use power and power relative to the demands of each particular event.
 
fergie said:
Squat can be used to predict deadlift, lunge, leg extension weights but are not directly related. Different movements that require different training approaches. Now if one was training for the squat it seems apparent that the best exercise to train the squat is the squat itself. So the best exercise to train cycling is...???

I will never dispute that. Of course its the best exercise, neural adaptation is king. What I will dispute is that supplementing some forms of cross training with your cycling doesn't initiate increases in performance.

gman0482 said:
No. I work everyday, and stick to the same routine. I know what and when I eat and nothing has changed.

Your not taking in more protein for recovery, energy bars, sugary drinks, you haven't put in more carbs to aid you on rides?. For some reason, I don't believe you. I think since you took up cycling, calories naturally increased due to the lifestyle of the sport.

fergs said:
Why do you assume that progressive overload does not apply to velocity. If my sprinters are going 65kph for 200m then to progressively overload them we would aim for 66kph. I would prefer to use power and power relative to the demands of each particular event.

We was referring to weight training.

66kph is velocity not max force (Bike/bodyweight remain constant). You not overloading anything, unlike a barbell.
 
Chapeau! said:
I will never dispute that. Of course its the best exercise, neural adaptation is king. What I will dispute is that supplementing some forms of cross training with your cycling doesn't initiate increases in performance.

Those studies show that a Sumo vs Conventional Deadlift is a different training stimulus and leads to a different neural adaptation. By what mechanism do you propose these adaptations occur? The adaptation fairy?

We was referring to weight training.

66kph is velocity not max force (Bike/bodyweight remain constant). You not overloading anything, unlike a barbell.
You obviously don't ride a bike much (if at all). Last time I rode 66kph I was experiencing a considerably distressing level of overload. Anything that tests the current performance capacity is overload. If you look in exercise physiology for dummies I'm sure there is something in there about it:cool:
 
Chapeau! said:
Your not taking in more protein for recovery, energy bars, sugary drinks, you haven't put in more carbs to aid you on rides?. For some reason, I don't believe you. I think since you took up cycling, calories naturally increased due to the lifestyle of the sport.

Protein ? No. Energy bars? No. Sugary drinks ?? So you're telling me that my Gatorade bottle made my legs grow muscle ?? LOL. For some reason I don't believe you.

As I said before, I haven't changed my diet or routine from before cycling. In fact, I never eat breakfast, eat lunch at 2 pm, and never have time to eat normally. I'm hungry most of the day because I'm runnin around busy. I know I have to change my diet, but that's the way it is.


So tell me coach, why have I gained muscle on my legs ?? And believe me, the difference is huge compared to before I took up cycling. I had twigs.
 
fergs said:
Those studies show that a Sumo vs Conventional Deadlift is a different training stimulus and leads to a different neural adaptation. By what mechanism do you propose these adaptations occur? The adaptation fairy?

Both lifts do complement each other, but muscle activation %'s differ from the 2 lifts.

fergs said:
You obviously don't ride a bike much (if at all). Last time I rode 66kph I was experiencing a considerably distressing level of overload. Anything that tests the current performance capacity is overload. If you look in exercise physiology for dummies I'm sure there is something in there about it:cool:

Again, when progressive overload was first mentioned, we was referring to weight training & you had it all wrong.

fergs said:
Last time I rode 66kph, I was experiencing a considerably distressing level of overload.

In terms of velocity.

What about max force overload?.

What happens when you reach the 66kph velocity overload milestone & you can't go any faster?.
 
gman0482 said:
Protein ? No. Energy bars? No. Sugary drinks ?? So you're telling me that my Gatorade bottle made my legs grow muscle ?? LOL. For some reason I don't believe you.

As I said before, I haven't changed my diet or routine from before cycling. In fact, I never eat breakfast, eat lunch at 2 pm, and never have time to eat normally. I'm hungry most of the day because I'm runnin around busy. I know I have to change my diet, but that's the way it is.

Don't believe you Gman.

Let me get this right. Your consuming the same amount of calories before you took up cycling, now that your cycling, your burning EVEN more calories AND your bodyweight is increasing.

I will have to go & figure that one out. Bull****ter.
 
Chapeau! said:
What happens when you reach the 66kph velocity overload milestone & you can't go any faster?.

You really don't ride a bike do you?

Go outside and find a flat stretch of road with no wind and go hit 40mph. I do believe that you don't even need to Google search that one to get an answer.
 
gman0482 said:
Protein ? No. Energy bars? No. Sugary drinks ?? So you're telling me that my Gatorade bottle made my legs grow muscle ?? LOL. For some reason I don't believe you.

As I said before, I haven't changed my diet or routine from before cycling. In fact, I never eat breakfast, eat lunch at 2 pm, and never have time to eat normally. I'm hungry most of the day because I'm runnin around busy. I know I have to change my diet, but that's the way it is.


So tell me coach, why have I gained muscle on my legs ?? And believe me, the difference is huge compared to before I took up cycling. I had twigs.

You need to eat breakfast. I eat breakfast at work because eating it at 4.45 in the morning at home would just suck. 7 hours till lunch... no thanks. Nothing fancy - just oatmeal in a cup, add hot water and throw it in a microwave to cook. I take a little "cooler bag" with some drinks, sandwich (if I know that I can't get lunch), some fruit and a couple of odds and ends like a Cliff Z-bar (my daughter loves them and they aint too bad ingedient wise), tasty too.

Ditch the gatorade, especially if it's the stuff that comes in bottles.

What you'll find is that if you eat semi-normal meals at regular intervals you'll ditch the junk food. There's always time to eat normally if you make the time. You'll probably end up feeling better when you ride too.
 
swampy1970 said:
Go outside and find a flat stretch of road with no wind and go hit 40mph. I do believe that you don't even need to Google search that one to get an answer.

Don't keep me in suspense?.
 
Chapeau! said:
Don't believe you Gman.

Let me get this right. Your consuming the same amount of calories before you took up cycling, now that your cycling, your burning EVEN more calories AND your bodyweight is increasing.

I will have to go & figure that one out. Bull****ter.

So, let's get this straight: you're calling Gman a liar, right?

Well, I guess that pretty much sums up what you're all about, troll.
 
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