Will Puerto be archived?

wolfix said:

But will they turn over the blood for DNA testing?

Some sources say they will others say they can't because they have to return them to Fuentes now as he is the owner and there is no longer an investigation against him...

This entire OP thing has really turned out to be a situation that needs to be resolved.
If it is not resolved with an attempt to determine the blood donors there will be a cloud over all riders of this period. Ullrich needs it most of all. Otherwise he is going down in history as the rider who never lived up to his potential, then was forced out because of a drug scandal... And he deserves better.
Basso needs it. Otherwise his wins , past and present will be questioned. And the other riders need it for the same reason.
As unfair as OP was handled, there was lots of blood there. And it would have to be top riders who were donors. Even though the fans can scream "Not my rider!", someone is guilty. My gut feeling is JU/Basso are guilty. My feelings are based on the fact that Basso was flying at the Giro way above everyone else two years in a row, and JU had too many people around him that never defended him after the allegations. Too many people abandoned him. No one that mattered ever claimed he was innocent. We heard of "unfairness", but never innocence.

I am really upset at the UCI. Ever since I have followed the sport in the early 70's, it was just accepted that doping was part of cycling. I do not apologise for not caring. I accepted the sport as it was. To be honest, I never considered doping as cheating at the Pro level.
But now , after looking the other way for how many years, the UCI feels it must project a "clean image' upon the fans..... So it uses JU as a scrapegoat. It has destroyed JU's career no matter what happens to JU in the future. Even if the blood is never released, JU is convicted in the court of public opinion. And to a athlete, the court of public opinion is the court that matters the most in the long run...... Only a clean bill of health and a TDF win would cleanse JU's reputation. And w/o a strong team, JU cannot return and challenge Basso for the TDF. He is not that good of a rider to do that.

What pisses me off the most is the only person who looks good after all this is [censored] Pound. He is laughing at the sport now.

...well written Wolf... and what of Fuentes ? He is the victim in all of this... trying to do some honest work and brought down by his own country and out of pocket 60,000 euros. What next for him ?

wolfix said:

This entire OP thing has really turned out to be a situation that needs to be resolved.
If it is not resolved with an attempt to determine the blood donors there will be a cloud over all riders of this period. Ullrich needs it most of all. Otherwise he is going down in history as the rider who never lived up to his potential, then was forced out because of a drug scandal... And he deserves better.
Basso needs it. Otherwise his wins , past and present will be questioned. And the other riders need it for the same reason.
As unfair as OP was handled, there was lots of blood there. And it would have to be top riders who were donors. Even though the fans can scream "Not my rider!", someone is guilty. My gut feeling is JU/Basso are guilty. My feelings are based on the fact that Basso was flying at the Giro way above everyone else two years in a row, and JU had too many people around him that never defended him after the allegations. Too many people abandoned him. No one that mattered ever claimed he was innocent. We heard of "unfairness", but never innocence.

I am really upset at the UCI. Ever since I have followed the sport in the early 70's, it was just accepted that doping was part of cycling. I do not apologise for not caring. I accepted the sport as it was. To be honest, I never considered doping as cheating at the Pro level.
But now , after looking the other way for how many years, the UCI feels it must project a "clean image' upon the fans..... So it uses JU as a scrapegoat. It has destroyed JU's career no matter what happens to JU in the future. Even if the blood is never released, JU is convicted in the court of public opinion. And to a athlete, the court of public opinion is the court that matters the most in the long run...... Only a clean bill of health and a TDF win would cleanse JU's reputation. And w/o a strong team, JU cannot return and challenge Basso for the TDF. He is not that good of a rider to do that.

What pisses me off the most is the only person who looks good after all this is [censored] Pound. He is laughing at the sport now.

whiteboytrash said:

...well written Wolf... and what of Fuentes ? He is the victim in all of this... trying to do some honest work and brought down by his own country and out of pocket 60,000 euros. What next for him ?

Don't worry, he will look after the unborn again😄

cyclingheroes said:

Don't worry, he will look after the unborn again😄

He can always open up a Vampire Cafe or work with the Red Cross. It would be a shame to let all the inventory go to waste.

jhuskey said:

He can always open up a Vampire Cafe or work with the Red Cross. It would be a shame to let all the inventory go to waste.

The Vampire café is a great idea. After McQuaid will be forced to step down as UCI president he could become the bartender...

cyclingheroes said:

The Vampire café is a great idea. After McQuaid will be forced to step down as UCI president he could become the bartender...

For some reason I picture him more as a Cocktail Waitress.

cyclingheroes said:

The Vampire café is a great idea. After McQuaid will be forced to step down as UCI president he could become the bartender...

CH, do you reckon Ulle will try and race again should Puerto be shelved and no more evidence released to the UCI? I reckon at his press confenerence he looked relieved, pleased to be retiring.

Rolfrae said:

CH, do you reckon Ulle will try and race again should Puerto be shelved and no more evidence released to the UCI? I reckon at his press confenerence he looked relieved, pleased to be retiring.

Hard to say, but I would not be surprised if Ulle decides to come back.

jhuskey said:

For some reason I picture him more as a Cocktail Waitress.

Why not, these days are hard and a job is a job...😄

cyclingheroes said:

Hard to say, but I would not be surprised if Ulle decides to come back.

Any thoughts on a team? Would hardly be worth the effort for him to come back after going through all this only to ride for Volksbank.

Rolfrae said:

Any thoughts on a team? Would hardly be worth the effort for him to come back after going through all this only to ride for Volksbank.

If he start for Volksbank he will probebly take over the whole team, rebuild it and start in 2008, maybe some classics (fall) in 2007.

cyclingheroes said:

If he start for Volksbank he will probebly take over the whole team, rebuild it and start in 2008, maybe some classics (fall) in 2007.

I just sent an e-mail to Switzerland. Lets see what Tobi thinks about it.

cyclingheroes said:

If he start for Volksbank he will probebly take over the whole team, rebuild it and start in 2008, maybe some classics (fall) in 2007.

[font=Verdana]Well I don't know..... just because the case has been shelved doesn't mean he didn't dope.... the case was shelved on the basis that they didn't have a strong enough case for "endangering public health". It wasn't shelved because 50 guys weren't shooting up electric blood..... the blood bags still exist and more than likely Basso et al. were on the gear...

btw/ David Miller winning the prologue at PN is a good start to the NEW cycling.[/font]
______
Jan Ullrich's attorney, Peter-Michael Dieste, has criticised the "campaign" against his client. "With the dismissal of the case against Dr. Fuentes, it becomes obvious what an unspeakable campaign has been brought on in Germany against Jan Ullrich for his athletic successes," said Dieste, according to the Maerkische Allgemeine newspaper.

"It is time that Herr Rudolf Scharping steps down, take his leave from German cycling and pardon himself to Jan Ullrich. All of those who have taken part in a disgusting way in the campaign against Jan Ullrich should, if they have even a bit of decency in them, approach him."

And we have the lawsuit of Lefevere happening....... I would think he would just let this slide into oblivion. Doesn't he have a team with 2 World Champions on it to direct? I realize he does not participate in the actual race day activities, but it seems to me the lawsuit would be a distraction.

I would think he would be having nightmares of those Italian speedsters of Petacchi and Bennati winning by a micro-meter past his 2 pretty boys........ And DiLuca is looking towards going north over the next few months......... And he's not heading up there to have some beer and waffles........
Lefevere has his hands full even though he has the strongest combination........

We have a racing season kicking in......... In spite of the racing organizations.

wolfix said:

This entire OP thing has really turned out to be a situation that needs to be resolved.
If it is not resolved with an attempt to determine the blood donors there will be a cloud over all riders of this period. Ullrich needs it most of all. Otherwise he is going down in history as the rider who never lived up to his potential, then was forced out because of a drug scandal... And he deserves better.
Basso needs it. Otherwise his wins , past and present will be questioned. And the other riders need it for the same reason.
As unfair as OP was handled, there was lots of blood there. And it would have to be top riders who were donors. Even though the fans can scream "Not my rider!", someone is guilty. My gut feeling is JU/Basso are guilty. My feelings are based on the fact that Basso was flying at the Giro way above everyone else two years in a row, and JU had too many people around him that never defended him after the allegations. Too many people abandoned him. No one that mattered ever claimed he was innocent. We heard of "unfairness", but never innocence.

I am really upset at the UCI. Ever since I have followed the sport in the early 70's, it was just accepted that doping was part of cycling. I do not apologise for not caring. I accepted the sport as it was. To be honest, I never considered doping as cheating at the Pro level.
But now , after looking the other way for how many years, the UCI feels it must project a "clean image' upon the fans..... So it uses JU as a scrapegoat. It has destroyed JU's career no matter what happens to JU in the future. Even if the blood is never released, JU is convicted in the court of public opinion. And to a athlete, the court of public opinion is the court that matters the most in the long run...... Only a clean bill of health and a TDF win would cleanse JU's reputation. And w/o a strong team, JU cannot return and challenge Basso for the TDF. He is not that good of a rider to do that.

What pisses me off the most is the only person who looks good after all this is [censored] Pound. He is laughing at the sport now.

Wolf: I agree with most of your logic except this point - If, as you believe, JU is actually guilty, then the last thing he "needs" is to have his blood tested against the OP collection. The soprt needs it, but not JU himself. My personal hunch all along has been that Basso is likely guilty (superhuman performance at the Giro, ridiculous comments about DNA testing from his lawyers, etc.), but I was inclined to think JU was not doping (w/ Fuentes) when he appeared to cooperate with the requests for DNA samples. His lawyers then filed motions that would essentially block the completion of the tests, which raises my suspicions about him.

I agree with you - the OP blood NEEDS to be tested, now that the UCI, WADA, Civil Guard, etc. , have opened Pandora's Box. The genie is out of the bottle and the credibility of the sport is in tatters. To think they can just pretend none of this ever happened and the sport can go on with business as usual is a mistake, IMO. I also agree that just because the criminal matter against Fuentes is closed, that doesn't mean the cases against the suspected cheats in cycling should go away. What about the doctors in other countries who broke their own countries' laws by supplying Fuentes with his dope, or running satellite clinics outside of Spain - do they all get off the hook too?

Now that Fuentes is off the hook legally, but perhaps unable to recapture his former income stream from doping athletes given new laws in Spain and the spotlight of public attention on him, maybe he can become rich by writing a series of tell-all books, each one dedicated to a particular sport and listing all the doper/clients he worked with in that sport. If an athlete dares to sue him for libel, he can use his recovered blood bags to prove in court that the allegations in his book are true.

MADRID, Spain -- The investigation that shook cycling ended without indictments Monday when the judge said he could not charge anyone because Spain's new doping law was not in place when the case broke last May. The ruling by Antonio Serrano was released Monday and dated March 8. The decision can be appealed by Spanish authorities. The Spanish cycling federation must also still decide whether to discipline dozens of riders implicated in the case known as Operation Puerto. In his 21-page ruling, the judge said doping allegations against sports physician Eufemiano Fuentes, coach Manolo Saiz and six other suspects "do not constitute a criminal infraction." Serrano said that although the practice of blood doping did take place in this case, there was no evidence it harmed riders' health. That is the requirement under previous Spanish legislation for charges to be filed against someone who administers doping substances to an athlete. The new law took effect in February and made it a crime to prescribe, dispense or facilitate use of such substances, regardless of whether they harm a person's health. If the judge's ruling holds up, it will mean an investigation into what was considered the biggest doping scandal in cycling in years will all have been for nothing. The investigation had wide-ranging effects. Two teams dissolved when their sponsors backed out, the reputations of cyclists were tainted, and last year's Tour of France lost its top riders because they were implicated. The probe started in May when Fuentes, Saiz and other cycling sports figures were arrested in Madrid on suspicion of providing doping services to cyclists. A total of eight people were arrested. Blood doping involves extracting blood from riders, treating it to boost the content of oxygen-carrying red blood cells and injecting it back into the athletes before a race to boost their energy.

fbircher said:

Wolf: I agree with most of your logic except this point - If, as you believe, JU is actually guilty, then the last thing he "needs" is to have his blood tested against the OP collection. The soprt needs it, but not JU himself. My personal hunch all along has been that Basso is likely guilty (superhuman performance at the Giro, ridiculous comments about DNA testing from his lawyers, etc.), but I was inclined to think JU was not doping (w/ Fuentes) when he appeared to cooperate with the requests for DNA samples. His lawyers then filed motions that would essentially block the completion of the tests, which raises my suspicions about him.

I agree with you - the OP blood NEEDS to be tested, now that the UCI, WADA, Civil Guard, etc. , have opened Pandora's Box. The genie is out of the bottle and the credibility of the sport is in tatters. To think they can just pretend none of this ever happened and the sport can go on with business as usual is a mistake, IMO. I also agree that just because the criminal matter against Fuentes is closed, that doesn't mean the cases against the suspected cheats in cycling should go away. What about the doctors in other countries who broke their own countries' laws by supplying Fuentes with his dope, or running satellite clinics outside of Spain - do they all get off the hook too?

Now that Fuentes is off the hook legally, but perhaps unable to recapture his former income stream from doping athletes given new laws in Spain and the spotlight of public attention on him, maybe he can become rich by writing a series of tell-all books, each one dedicated to a particular sport and listing all the doper/clients he worked with in that sport. If an athlete dares to sue him for libel, he can use his recovered blood bags to prove in court that the allegations in his book are true.

cyclingheroes said:

If he start for Volksbank he will probebly take over the whole team, rebuild it and start in 2008, maybe some classics (fall) in 2007.

that would certainly be nice to see.

fbircher said:

Wolf: I agree with most of your logic except this point - If, as you believe, JU is actually guilty, then the last thing he "needs" is to have his blood tested against the OP collection. The soprt needs it, but not JU himself. My personal hunch all along has been that Basso is likely guilty (superhuman performance at the Giro, ridiculous comments about DNA testing from his lawyers, etc.), but I was inclined to think JU was not doping (w/ Fuentes) when he appeared to cooperate with the requests for DNA samples. His lawyers then filed motions that would essentially block the completion of the tests, which raises my suspicions about him.

I agree with you - the OP blood NEEDS to be tested, now that the UCI, WADA, Civil Guard, etc. , have opened Pandora's Box. The genie is out of the bottle and the credibility of the sport is in tatters. To think they can just pretend none of this ever happened and the sport can go on with business as usual is a mistake, IMO. I also agree that just because the criminal matter against Fuentes is closed, that doesn't mean the cases against the suspected cheats in cycling should go away. What about the doctors in other countries who broke their own countries' laws by supplying Fuentes with his dope, or running satellite clinics outside of Spain - do they all get off the hook too?

Now that Fuentes is off the hook legally, but perhaps unable to recapture his former income stream from doping athletes given new laws in Spain and the spotlight of public attention on him, maybe he can become rich by writing a series of tell-all books, each one dedicated to a particular sport and listing all the doper/clients he worked with in that sport. If an athlete dares to sue him for libel, he can use his recovered blood bags to prove in court that the allegations in his book are true.

Blood dopers doctors are BUSINESSMEN, first and foremost.

Tell-all books do not sell well. David Wlash made $50,000 Euros---big fat hairy deal. (not a good business)

Tell-all books may be cathartic, but always lead to being blackballed. And blackballing is unkind to the wallet. (see Paul Kimmage)

Dr. Fuentes will undoubtedly return to making money in the easiest possible way; selling steroids, postmenopause hormones and blood doping services to the thousands of athletes who seek him out.

Cyclists, soccer and tennis players, track and field and wrestlers.

With millions doping--it is a HUGE marketplace.

The Fuentes book will be a best seller and believe me, he will write one.

Saline.feed said:

Blood dopers doctors are BUSINESSMEN, first and foremost.

Tell-all books do not sell well. David Wlash made $50,000 Euros---big fat hairy deal. (not a good business)

Tell-all books may be cathartic, but always lead to being blackballed. And blackballing is unkind to the wallet. (see Paul Kimmage)

Dr. Fuentes will undoubtedly return to making money in the easiest possible way; selling steroids, postmenopause hormones and blood doping services to the thousands of athletes who seek him out.

Cyclists, soccer and tennis players, track and field and wrestlers.

With millions doping--it is a HUGE marketplace.