will they really boot Petacchi??

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Geoff Raynak, May 29, 2003.

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  1. Geoff Raynak

    Geoff Raynak Guest

    from cyclingnews.com:

    First across the line on six occasions this year, Petacchi was last to reach the finish in
    Chianale today, finishing outside the time limit and finding himself unceremoniously eliminated
    from the race.

    sure, he was last by a long shot ... but he is torn to shreds... he deserves to finish in milano!
    don't the officials have some leeway here?
     
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  2. Mark Janeba

    Mark Janeba Guest

    geoff raynak wrote:
    > from cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > First across the line on six occasions this year, Petacchi was last to reach the finish in
    > Chianale today, finishing outside the time limit and finding himself unceremoniously eliminated
    > from the race.

    The results posted on Cycling News show more than 25% of the field not making the time cutoff on
    today's stage. (Wow!) I thought grand tours (or UCI?) had a rule that not more than 20% of the field
    could be eliminated by a time cut in any one stage - or is that just The Tour?

    --
    Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
  3. "geoff raynak" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > from cyclingnews.com:
    >
    > First across the line on six occasions this year, Petacchi was last to
    reach
    > the finish in Chianale today, finishing outside the time limit and finding himself unceremoniously
    > eliminated from the race.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > sure, he was last by a long shot ... but he is torn to shreds... he
    deserves
    > to finish in milano! don't the officials have some leeway here?

    A lot of riders didn't make the time cut.

    It wouldn't be fair to the other competitors in the points competition if the officials gave
    Petacchi an exemption.
     
  4. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "geoff raynak" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > from cyclingnews.com:
    > >
    > > First across the line on six occasions this year, Petacchi was last to
    > reach
    > > the finish in Chianale today, finishing outside the time limit and finding himself
    > > unceremoniously eliminated from the race.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > sure, he was last by a long shot ... but he is torn to shreds... he
    > deserves
    > > to finish in milano! don't the officials have some leeway here?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > A lot of riders didn't make the time cut.
    >
    >
    > It wouldn't be fair to the other competitors in the points competition if the officials gave
    > Petacchi an exemption.

    From Cyclingnews.com " Last night I barely slept, maybe two hours total. I knew that this would be a
    horrible day. The time delay? I'm tired... So tired that it doesn't really matter any more." The guy
    has equaled Cipo's record of 6 stage wins, wore the Maglia Rosa for a week, beat Cipo, beat
    McSnivel, crashed, and still won a stage, I think he has had a pretty sucessful Giro Dave
     
  5. "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > From Cyclingnews.com " Last night I barely slept, maybe two hours total. I
    knew that this would be a
    > horrible day. The time delay? I'm tired... So tired that it doesn't really
    matter any more." The
    > guy has equaled Cipo's record of 6 stage wins, wore the Maglia Rosa for a
    week, beat Cipo, beat
    > McSnivel, crashed, and still won a stage, I think he has had a pretty
    sucessful Giro

    Who said that he didn't have a successful Giro?

    He still shouldn't be given an exemption for the timecut unless everyone is given one.

    BTW, Binda has the record for most stage wins in a single Giro with 12 wins. Where'd you get the
    idea that Cipo had that record?
     
  6. Us

    Us Guest

    It's important to notice that there are basically no pure sprinters left................. having
    said that,

    The guys a stallion, besides if you're a busted up sprinter, would you really want to another day
    like 18? the very next day? then maybe win sat? Then get to ride an ITT which you're gonnna
    basically suck at? I think I'd most likely say F*** It too. (He did finish dead last...) Too bad he
    won't win the points jersey though he really did earn that one.

    Dave wrote:

    > From Cyclingnews.com " Last night I barely slept, maybe two hours total. I knew that this would be
    > a horrible day. The time delay? I'm tired... So tired that it doesn't really matter any more." The
    > guy has equaled Cipo's record of 6 stage wins, wore the Maglia Rosa for a week, beat Cipo, beat
    > McSnivel, crashed, and still won a stage, I think he has had a pretty sucessful Giro Dave
     
  7. Jim Feeley

    Jim Feeley Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It wouldn't be fair to the other competitors in the points competition if the officials gave
    > Petacchi an exemption.

    Agreed. But could they make a "terrible weather = longer time cut" exemption for all who made it
    across the finish line? I mean it was snowing...

    Jim
     
  8. In article <290520032156139863%[email protected]>, Jim Feeley <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Agreed. But could they make a "terrible weather = longer time cut" exemption for all who made it
    >across the finish line? I mean it was snowing...

    According to cyclingnews.com, 35 riders did not make the time cut and have been dropped from the
    Giro. Petacchi didn't get much sleep the night before the stage and said he was "tired". "So tired
    that it doesn't really matter any more."

    --
    Mike Iglesias Email: [email protected] University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
    Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
     
  9. "Jim Feeley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:290520032156139863%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > It wouldn't be fair to the other competitors in the points competition
    if
    > > the officials gave Petacchi an exemption.
    >
    > Agreed. But could they make a "terrible weather = longer time cut" exemption for all who made it
    > across the finish line? I mean it was snowing...

    It would be fair if they gave all the time-cut riders an exemption (that is done sometimes in the
    TdF, so the field doesn't get too small).

    It wouldn't be fair if only Petacchi was given an exemption.
     
  10. This stage showed the problems of the percentages timecut system.

    The stage was fast from the beginning with group of 30 getting away. Then there were the snowy and
    icy roads. I imagine the grupetto must have passed there at walking pace, avoiding any risks. While
    at the front Popovych and Frigo went hard for the day prize. I saw the coverage live and this stage
    really called for a timecut of more than 36 minutes.

    That wouldnt have helped Petacchi (at 50 minutes) . If he's still wounded too bad from the
    crash... well so is racing. He's Giro has been succesfull enough. He gets as many uci-points as 3
    World Cup wins would deliver , bit exaggerated no? And I still think he should have beeen excluded
    with Naudusz.
     
  11. geoff raynak <[email protected]> wrote:

    >sure, he was last by a long shot ... but he is torn to shreds... he deserves to finish in milano!
    >don't the officials have some leeway here?

    in his diary on radsportnews.com, German sprinter Robert Förster (Gerolsteiner) describes how the
    grupetto was held up by cars (!) and tourist cyclists in the descents. He says otherwise the might
    have made it in time even though the weather was terrible
     
  12. "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:D[email protected]...
    >

    > It would be fair if they gave all the time-cut riders an exemption (that is done sometimes in the
    > TdF, so the field doesn't get too small).

    I don't think that's fair to riders who busted a gut or took risks to make the time cut.

    If they want to extend the time cut for a rider who crashes early in the race, _maybe_ that's OK. Or
    maybe for a rider who has bike problems that cannot be serviced promptly (not common in big pro
    races, but common enough locally where there may only be one support vehicle in a race).

    But apart from that, it's simply not fair to change the cut after the fact. The officials should
    look at the course conditions and the weather, in the morning and make an adjustment then if needed.
    Not later.

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    *******************************************
     
  13. well John they werent very consistent as they stretched the TC for the 12 riders at 36'40.

    Under the circumstances of Thursday, they could have decided during the race the TC would be
    softened, and have informed the teamcars.

    if you see that the number 30 in the stage was already at 25 minutes, that says something.
     
  14. Davide Tosi

    Davide Tosi Guest

    [email protected] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:

    >"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:D[email protected]...
    >>
    >
    >> It would be fair if they gave all the time-cut riders an exemption (that is done sometimes in the
    >> TdF, so the field doesn't get too small).

    In fact I think there should not be a time cut at all. Nowadays organization of racing penalizes
    sprinters too much, when in fact it's them that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder
    to shoulder at 70 kmp/h.

    Those damn climbers should really go to hell.
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, Davide Tosi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:
    >
    > >"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:D[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >
    > >> It would be fair if they gave all the time-cut riders an exemption (that is done sometimes in
    > >> the TdF, so the field doesn't get too small).
    >
    > In fact I think there should not be a time cut at all. Nowadays organization of racing penalizes
    > sprinters too much, when in fact it's them that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder
    > to shoulder at 70 kmp/h.
    >
    > Those damn climbers should really go to hell.

    Personally I think big bunch finishes are dull. Give me breakaway finishes where there is more
    attacking going on. If having fewer sprinters and strong sprinter teams leads to more breakaway
    finishes then I have no problem getting rid of the sprinters.

    Casey
     
  16. Kenny

    Kenny Guest

    > BTW, Binda has the record for most stage wins in a single Giro with 12 wins. Where'd you get the
    > idea that Cipo had that record?

    Freddy Maertens even won 13 stages in one single Vuelta.
     
  17. "Kenny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > BTW, Binda has the record for most stage wins in a single Giro with 12
    wins.
    > > Where'd you get the idea that Cipo had that record?
    >
    > Freddy Maertens even won 13 stages in one single Vuelta.

    and he won 8 stages in a single TdF.
     
  18. "Casey Kerrigan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:300520030937333584%[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Davide Tosi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > [email protected] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote:
    > >
    > > >"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > >news:D[email protected]...
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > >> It would be fair if they gave all the time-cut riders an exemption (that is done sometimes in
    > > >> the TdF, so the field doesn't get too small).
    > >
    > > In fact I think there should not be a time cut at all. Nowadays organization of racing penalizes
    > > sprinters too much, when in
    fact
    > > it's them that give the real show, every time they fight shoulder to shoulder at 70 kmp/h.
    > >
    > > Those damn climbers should really go to hell.
    >
    >
    > Personally I think big bunch finishes are dull. Give me breakaway finishes where there is more
    > attacking going on. If having fewer sprinters and strong sprinter teams leads to more breakaway
    > finishes then I have no problem getting rid of the sprinters.

    Agreed, a stage race is lacking something when every single non-mountain stage comes down to a field
    sprint (like this year's Giro). Ride around for 180k every day, then sprint. No drama. except for
    the last 1k. Good for highlight reels, bad for live coverage. Very narrow in focus, boring for
    people who appreciate the subtler tactical side of racing.
     
  19. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    > BTW, Binda has the record for most stage wins in a single Giro with 12 wins.

    This is probably a good time to plug:
    http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cvccbikers/giro/giro_winners.html

    I will warn everyone in advance that angelfire is much easier to take if you have a popup killer.

    If you look at the early days of the Giro you see it was a different event than today. There were
    fewer stages and the stages were longer so that the event looked more like an ultra marathon race.
    For example, the year Binda won 12 stages (1927) there were 15 stages total with most between
    200-321 in length over roads that were shit.

    Guys like Binda and Girardengo were real ass kickers. If the race had been similar to today in the
    number of stages and typical length of each stage (especially if measured in the amount of time in
    the saddle rather than distance) then Binda would have won a lot more. There were a couple of years
    where he won most of the stages.

    When Mario says you can't compare him to a guy like Binda he's telling you the truth.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  20. Joe Hurley

    Joe Hurley Guest

    I thought the same thing, Mark. In fact, I recall last year or the year before, Phil & Paul
    explained during Tour de France coverage that this is the reason why the non-climbers would form a
    "grupetto" during the mountain stages. They explained that there was this UCI rule that they could
    not eliminate more than 20% of the field, and so if they all got together, the commisseurs could not
    eliminate anyone without eliminating huge percentages of the field.

    Here's what I found out after doing a little digging. It's actually discretionary:

    "By agreement with the race management, the commissaires' panel may alter deadlines to take
    into account exceptional occurrences (weather conditions, road blocks, accident or serious
    incident, etc.).

    If the percentage of eliminated riders exceeds 20% of the participants, the coefficient may be
    raised by a decision of the commissaires' panel in agreement with the race director. Obviously, all
    riders finishing in the new deadline remain qualified for the following stages. Such a decision is
    exceptional and will under no circumstances set a precedent."

    Note the point that it does not set a precedent, and it only is done by a decision of the
    commissaires' panel in agreement with the race director.

    I admit, I also thought that it was a rule that they couldn't disqualify people in a large group,
    but I guess they can.

    "Mark Janeba" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > geoff raynak wrote:
    > > from cyclingnews.com:
    > >
    > > First across the line on six occasions this year, Petacchi was last to
    reach
    > > the finish in Chianale today, finishing outside the time limit and
    finding
    > > himself unceremoniously eliminated from the race.
    >
    > The results posted on Cycling News show more than 25% of the field not making the time cutoff on
    > today's stage. (Wow!) I thought grand tours (or UCI?) had a rule that not more than 20% of the
    > field could be eliminated by a time cut in any one stage - or is that just The Tour?
    >
    > --
    > Mark Janeba remove antispam phrase in address to reply
     
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