Windshield

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Sky Fly, Jan 26, 2003.

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  1. Sky Fly

    Sky Fly Guest

    Hi all,

    The inspiration for this post comes from the incessant boastings of a certain Mr. Chapman about how
    wonderful r*c*mb*nts are, because there's less wind resistance to deal with.

    Now, I have this idea. Let's not change the standard bike, but let's add something like a windshield
    to it, so that the wind will be gently deflected upwards and over our heads, so that we won't have
    to deal with it. Let me describe in detail how this will be.

    First of all, there will be a U-shaped metal frame attached to the bars of the bike. The U will have
    a square base, not a rounded one (so that it looks like a rectangle with the last side missing). The
    two parallel sides of the frame will be attached near to the ends of the handlebars, and they will
    project out forwards so that the 'base' of the U is roughly parallel to the bars. Then the
    windshield will be attached to the 'base' and it will slope backwards and upwards. The reason for
    the projection is so that the angle of the windshield is not too steep to deflect the wind gently.

    So will this work? Is it an old idea that I seem to have rediscovered? Will I make lots of money
    from this?

    --
    Akin

    aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk
     
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  2. Chris French

    Chris French Guest

    In message <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    >Hi all,
    >
    >The inspiration for this post comes from the incessant boastings of a certain Mr. Chapman about how
    >wonderful r*c*mb*nts are, because there's less wind resistance to deal with.
    >
    >Now, I have this idea. Let's not change the standard bike, but let's add something like a
    >windshield to it,
    >
    snip>

    >So will this work?

    Depends on what you mean by work....

    > Is it an old idea that I seem to have rediscovered?

    Yes, ideas for windshields on cycles ahve been around for years.

    >Will I make lots of money from this?

    I suspect not.
    --
    Chris French, Leeds
     
  3. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    Sky Fly wrote:

    > The inspiration for this post comes from the incessant boastings of a certain Mr. Chapman about
    > how wonderful r*c*mb*nts are, because there's less wind resistance to deal with.

    Oi! I resemble that remark!

    --
    Guy
    ===
    I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
    about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
    wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    >
    >"Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> --
    >> Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise or Glue
    >
    >I give up - what planets do 'Q', 'M' and 'G' stand for?

    'Q' is the recently discovered 10th planet, the name of which I can't remember cos it's silly
    (Quaoaoer or something). 'M' and 'G' are the yet to be discovered 11th and 12th planets, more
    sensibly named Mickey and Goofy, of course (courtesy of Robert Anton Wilson, natch).

    ttfn

    Martin

    --
    "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkein - "Fear and
    Loathing in Barad Dur"

    Martin Harlow [email protected]
     
  5. Sky Fly

    Sky Fly Guest

    "chris French" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In message <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    > >So will this work?
    >
    > Depends on what you mean by work....
    >
    > > Is it an old idea that I seem to have rediscovered?
    >
    > Yes, ideas for windshields on cycles ahve been around for years.

    Interesting... why are they not more widely used? Are they not that effective, or are they too
    much hassle?
     
  6. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Sky Fly wondered:
    > Interesting... why are they not more widely used? Are they not that effective, or are they too
    > much hassle?

    This is the Streamer fairing, which I plan to treat myself to sometime:
    http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/streamer/index_e.html

    Zzipper makes fairings for wedgies as well - I remember reading a post on alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
    from someone who enjoyed passing roadies on his fairing-equipped ATB :)
    http://www.zzipper.com/RoadMtnTandemFairings.html

    I can think of a few reasons whey they're not more widely used. I think the main reasons are price
    (GBP 239.00 for a Streamer from Bikefix), lack of availability (have you ever seen one in your
    LBS?), and lack of awareness that they exist.

    A fairing adds a fair bit of weight to a bike (2.2kg for the Streamer), and there's some debate over
    whether the improvement in aerodynamics makes up for the increase in weight. A typical figure that
    I've seen quoted on arbr is that once you get above about 18mph, it's worth having a front fairing
    (tail fairings are supposedly much more effective).

    The other problem with fairings is that they can make handling a bit dodgy when it's windy. If
    you've got a headwind then great, it's good to have something that improves your aerodynamics. But
    it's far more likely that you'll have a strong sidewind, in which case you really don't want a lump
    of plastic on your bike increasing the area for the wind to blow against ...

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> writes
    >Sky Fly wondered:
    >> Interesting... why are they not more widely used? Are they not that effective, or are they too
    >> much hassle?
    >
    >This is the Streamer fairing, which I plan to treat myself to sometime:
    >http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/streamer/index_e.html
    >
    >Zzipper makes fairings for wedgies as well

    I've got one. It gathers dust, I'm afraid :-/ It attaches to the bars with hooks and velcro strips.
    In theory it could be very easily nicked (not very likely though, I suppose). Ultimately, I think I
    feel it's not worth it for the day to day riding which I tend to use the bike for. I did a short-ish
    tour with it - quite nice for keeping the cold wind off the hands and making the bar bag more
    aerodynamic. Coming down Dartmoor was a hell of a buzz - as mentioned, it really kicks in at high
    speed, and that was the fastest I've ever ridden! But ultimately, not quite worth it.

    ttfn

    Martin

    --
    Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise or Glue

    Martin Harlow [email protected]
     
  8. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Sky Fly wrote:

    > Now, I have this idea. Let's not change the standard bike, but let's add something like a
    > windshield to it, so that the wind will be gently deflected upwards and over our heads, so that we
    > won't have to deal with it.

    Been done, and some are available. But the problem is that a lot of aerodynamics is about reducing
    frontal area, and a screen on an upright bike will have a *big* problem doing that. Add in the
    weight and worse handling characteristics in wind and aside from keeping rain off you're likely to
    have little to no net benefit.

    Fairings tend to work on 'bents because there's so much less frontal area to cover up, and the
    riding position makes a swept back (inherently better aero in a typical design) fairing much easier
    to contrive.

    > So will this work? Is it an old idea that I seem to have rediscovered? Will I make lots of money
    > from this?

    To an extent, you just hadn't noticed those available, and no.

    'bents just suit fairings better than uprights. Which is why IHPVA records are held in very
    significant part on faired recumbents. A fully faired Moulton has a 200m sprint, but the nature of
    the fairing is such that you can't really sit up on it, so not terribly practical over distances...

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    >
    >"Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> In article <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    >> >
    >> >"Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> >> --
    >> >> Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise or Glue
    >> >
    >> >I give up - what planets do 'Q', 'M' and 'G' stand for?
    >>
    >> 'Q' is the recently discovered 10th planet, the name of which I can't remember cos it's silly
    >> (Quaoaoer or something).
    >
    >Well *that's* handy - having a mnemonic that doesn't help you remember the name of something. Well,
    >at least knowing that it begins with a 'Q' puts you leagues ahead of me - I didn't even *know* that
    >there was a tenth planet. Is this like we get reports about America having a 51st state every now
    >and then?

    Fair point. I've used the sig for quite a while, and amended it last year to see if anyone was
    paying attention :) As for the status of Quaoar (I've just looked it up), I think it was announced
    as a new planet (not necessarily by anyone who knew what they were talking about), but it isn't
    really - it's a large (800 mile diameter) Kuiper Belt Object (i.e. lump orbiting out beyond
    Neptune). But it is the largest thing found in the solar system since Pluto, fwiw. To confuse the
    issue, Pluto is also a large KBO - if it was discovered today, it wouldn't be a planet either, but
    they aren't going to reclassify it.

    Hey, it's just a sig, and not a very sensible one at that :)

    ttfn

    Martin

    P.S. I love the internet for this sort of thing :) If you want to find out more, check out:
    http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question50.html

    --
    Shepherdess No Temptation That Poussin Teniers Hold The Key Peace 681 By The Cross And This Horse
    Of God I Complete This Daemon Guardian At Midday Blue Apples

    Martin Harlow [email protected]
     
  10. Sky Fly

    Sky Fly Guest

    "Danny Colyer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > The other problem with fairings is that they can make handling a bit dodgy when it's windy. If
    > you've got a headwind then great, it's good to have something that improves your aerodynamics. But
    > it's far more likely that you'll have a strong sidewind, in which case you really don't want a
    > lump of plastic on your bike increasing the area for the wind to blow against ...

    Don't recumbents have the same problem with sidewinds? How come they get away with it? Or do they?

    --
    Akin

    aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk
     
  11. Sky Fly

    Sky Fly Guest

    "Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > --
    > Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise or Glue

    I give up - what planets do 'Q', 'M' and 'G' stand for?
     
  12. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Sky Fly wrote:

    > Don't recumbents have the same problem with sidewinds? How come they get away with it? Or do they?

    A bit... wind speed is reduced by friction with the ground, so if you're lower you will get slightly
    less. Also, having a lower centre of mass they're harder to actually knock over, or at least push to
    the extent that major corrective action will be required.

    But bastard big sudden gusts from the side are still in the Not Much Fun category. Fully faired
    'bent bikes sometimes have warnings posted about unsuitability for use in strong side winds.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
    http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  13. Danny Colyer

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Sky Fly asked:
    > Don't recumbents have the same problem with sidewinds?

    Faired recumbents do. The side-on cross section of an unfaired recumbent really isn't any bigger
    than that of a wedgie. And as Peter wrote: "having a lower centre of mass they're harder to actually
    knock over, or at least push to the extent that major corrective action will be required."

    > How come they get away with it? Or do they?

    I've never had a problem. The worst machine I've found for riding with a strong sidewind is the
    Coker: http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/unicycling/gallery/020531coker. jpg

    A sidewind acting on that bloody great 36" wheel can make riding quite a challenge - though it's
    never yet forced me to dismount.

    --
    Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny ) Recumbent cycle page:
    http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/ "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." -
    Thomas Paine
     
  14. Sky Fly

    Sky Fly Guest

    "Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Sky Fly <[email protected]> writes
    > >
    > >"Martin Harlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> --
    > >> Mother Very Easily Made a Jam Sandwich Using No Peanuts, Quaaludes, Mayonnaise or Glue
    > >
    > >I give up - what planets do 'Q', 'M' and 'G' stand for?
    >
    > 'Q' is the recently discovered 10th planet, the name of which I can't remember cos it's silly
    > (Quaoaoer or something).

    Well *that's* handy - having a mnemonic that doesn't help you remember the name of something.
    Well, at least knowing that it begins with a 'Q' puts you leagues ahead of me - I didn't even
    *know* that there was a tenth planet. Is this like we get reports about America having a 51st
    state every now and then?
     
  15. John B

    John B Guest

    Danny Colyer wrote:

    > Sky Fly wondered:
    > > Interesting... why are they not more widely used? Are they not that effective, or are they too
    > > much hassle?
    >
    > This is the Streamer fairing, which I plan to treat myself to sometime:
    > http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/streamer/index_e.html
    >
    >
    > I can think of a few reasons whey they're not more widely used. I think the main reasons are price
    > (GBP 239.00 for a Streamer from Bikefix), lack of availability (have you ever seen one in your
    > LBS?), and lack of awareness that they exist.
    >
    > A fairing adds a fair bit of weight to a bike (2.2kg for the Streamer), and there's some debate
    > over whether the improvement in aerodynamics makes up for the increase in weight.

    I have a Streamer for my trice. Whatever the debate on aerodynamics they sure pull the smiles and
    double the grin factor ;-)

    > A typical figure that I've seen quoted on arbr is that once you get above about 18mph, it's
    > worth having

    > a front fairing

    It doesn't seem to make much difference at low/mid speeds, but downhill it becomes real fun fun fun.
    I haven't measured speeds to compare with and without, but it definitely feels faster

    >
    > The other problem with fairings is that they can make handling a bit dodgy when it's windy. If
    > you've got a headwind then great, it's good to have something that improves your aerodynamics.

    > But it's far more likely that you'll have a strong sidewind, in which case you really don't want a
    > lump of plastic on your bike increasing the area for the wind to blow against ...
    >

    I haven't noticed this, but then the trice is far more stable than a bike.

    Another advantage, is in the rain - they offer tremendous protection.

    JohnB
     
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