Wine and Breast Cancer?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Leila, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. Leila

    Leila Guest

    Please skip this if you're sick of the cancer topic. But some of you
    might care to know.

    I looked up a couple of reputable books on breast cancer after my
    diagnosis, one written by a top doctor at UCLA, one more "popular" and
    written by a survivor.

    On the topic of what to eat, they generally said eat a wide variety of
    foods. But both of them made statements that went approximately like
    this "since eating large amounts of animal fats may increase your risk
    for cancer, you should eat a low fat diet and avoid red meat." I find
    this a large jump in logic. Why can't you eat red meat in small
    quantities? And olive oil is good for breast cancer.

    On the topic of wine, a similar statement was made "Since drinking 6-9
    glasses of wine per week is a risk factor for breast cancer, you should
    only drink a glass of wine at Thanksgiving or New Year's holidays."

    Re: the wine - If 6-9 glasses a week is risky, where is the data that
    two glasses a year is the only safe choice?

    I asked my surgeon, the head of the breast center at UC San Francisco,
    one of the top centers in the country. She said that 3 to 5 glasses of
    wine a week would put me below the area of risk. She also said that you
    eat what's good for you, lots of vegetables and fruit, a wide variety
    of foods, and enjoy your life.

    Since I don't normally drink 5 glasses of wine average per month, I am
    going to continue as I was pre-cancer. No wine when I've been using
    pain or anti-nausea meds (or when I'm nauseated, duh). Have a glass or
    two with a meal when the mood strikes, which is usually less than once
    a week, sometimes more like once a month. And as the surgeon said, if I
    drink three glasses during the course of a long and delicious meal, I
    know to lay off for the rest of the week.

    Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    under)

    Leila
     
    Tags:


  2. Hahabogus

    Hahabogus Guest

    "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    > and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    > under)
    >
    > Leila
    >


    That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    whole mind.

    --
    Starchless in Manitoba.
    Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
     
  3. Rick & Cyndi

    Rick & Cyndi Guest

    "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Please skip this if you're sick of the cancer topic. But some of you
    > might care to know.
    >
    ><snipping interesting comments...>
    >
    > Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    > and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    > under)
    >
    > Leila
    >===============


    Congratulations on finding a wonderful doctor! That is one of the biggest
    battles in itself.

    We'll keep you in our prayers during your recovery and when the April walk
    for cancer happens, I'll be thinking of you during those 18 hours, too!

    Cyndi
     
  4. Cindy Fuller

    Cindy Fuller Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Please skip this if you're sick of the cancer topic. But some of you
    > might care to know.
    >
    > I looked up a couple of reputable books on breast cancer after my
    > diagnosis, one written by a top doctor at UCLA, one more "popular" and
    > written by a survivor.
    >
    > On the topic of what to eat, they generally said eat a wide variety of
    > foods. But both of them made statements that went approximately like
    > this "since eating large amounts of animal fats may increase your risk
    > for cancer, you should eat a low fat diet and avoid red meat." I find
    > this a large jump in logic. Why can't you eat red meat in small
    > quantities? And olive oil is good for breast cancer.
    >
    > On the topic of wine, a similar statement was made "Since drinking 6-9
    > glasses of wine per week is a risk factor for breast cancer, you should
    > only drink a glass of wine at Thanksgiving or New Year's holidays."
    >
    > Re: the wine - If 6-9 glasses a week is risky, where is the data that
    > two glasses a year is the only safe choice?
    >
    > I asked my surgeon, the head of the breast center at UC San Francisco,
    > one of the top centers in the country. She said that 3 to 5 glasses of
    > wine a week would put me below the area of risk. She also said that you
    > eat what's good for you, lots of vegetables and fruit, a wide variety
    > of foods, and enjoy your life.
    >
    > Since I don't normally drink 5 glasses of wine average per month, I am
    > going to continue as I was pre-cancer. No wine when I've been using
    > pain or anti-nausea meds (or when I'm nauseated, duh). Have a glass or
    > two with a meal when the mood strikes, which is usually less than once
    > a week, sometimes more like once a month. And as the surgeon said, if I
    > drink three glasses during the course of a long and delicious meal, I
    > know to lay off for the rest of the week.
    >
    > Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    > and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    > under)
    >

    Hi Leila!

    You may have seen the article in the newspaper of late suggesting that
    the oleic acid in olive oil may turn off one of the genes responsible
    for some (30%) breast cancers. The problem with all of these diet
    recommendations, to this scientist's mind, is that many people don't pay
    attention to nutritional or lifestyle issues until AFTER the diagnosis.
    The development of any cancer can take years.

    I'll take issue with hahabogus's assessment of your surgeon. I've met
    surgeons who have the personality and bedside manner of cardboard
    studded with broken glass. She also sounds as if she has some
    reasonable suggestions for eating, which is what you've been doing all
    along.

    Hope all continues to go well!

    Cindy

    --
    C.J. Fuller

    Delete the obvious to email me
     
  5. jmcquown

    jmcquown Guest

    Leila wrote:
    > Please skip this if you're sick of the cancer topic. But some of you
    > might care to know.
    >

    (snip interesting query)
    > Leila

    Leila, I was very sorry to hear of your diagnosis. But I really like the
    sound of your surgeon. Seems to keep on top of things which is, of course,
    great. And wouldn't mind being lulled into anesthesia with my surgeon
    singing. The last time I had surgery (emergency) I had to tell the staff
    *before* the anesthetist started, "Uh, I'm wearing contact lenses, does
    anyone care?" DUH.

    Best wishes for no recurrences. And it's a good thing you continue to ask
    questions and do research.

    Jill
     
  6. Goomba38

    Goomba38 Guest

    Hahabogus wrote:
    > "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    >>and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    >>under)
    >>
    >>Leila
    >>

    >
    >
    > That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    > back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    > whole mind.


    You might not want to hear that just about all
    surgeons have their CD collections in the OR. They
    LOVE to listen to hard rock to classic music.
    Some quite LOUD! lol
    On the other side of this- I can concentrate
    better on a lecture or church sermon if my hands
    are occupied (such as with hand sewing or
    embroidery). I don't know why but just sitting
    there staring at the lecturer allows my mind to
    wander whereas concentrating on the sewing allows
    me to "hear" better.
    Goomba
     
  7. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Goomba38" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Hahabogus wrote:
    >> "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> news:[email protected]:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    >>>and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    >>>under)
    >>>
    >>>Leila
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    >> back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    >> whole mind.

    >
    > You might not want to hear that just about all surgeons have their CD
    > collections in the OR. They LOVE to listen to hard rock to classic music.
    > Some quite LOUD! lol
    > On the other side of this- I can concentrate better on a lecture or church
    > sermon if my hands are occupied (such as with hand sewing or embroidery).
    > I don't know why but just sitting there staring at the lecturer allows my
    > mind to wander whereas concentrating on the sewing allows me to "hear"
    > better.
    > Goomba
    >


    When you are really good at something - as you hope your surgeon is - you do
    not need your whole mind to do the best job. In fact you will likely do a
    worse job if you pay strict and complete attention. "Relaxed attentiveness"
    is a phrase often used to describe the best state to perform a difficult
    task that you know well.


    --
    Peter Aitken

    Remove the crap from my email address before using.
     
  8. Leila

    Leila Guest

    Re: surgeon singing - she's standing there while the anesthesiologist
    has me sit up so she can stick a needle in my back. The surgeon puts
    her hands on my head and rubs my hair and sings while I'm getting this
    procedure. Then they put me down on my back again and say bye-bye
    Leila. That's all I remember until I woke up again 10 hours later.
    Whoever complained about the surgeon singing just didn't get the
    picture. She would have been just standing by at that moment, she chose
    to do this incredibly warm comforting thing while I was getting stabbed
    in the back.

    Leila
     
  9. Leila

    Leila Guest

    Trouble is, my diet was pretty close to what is generally recommended,
    all of my life. Moderate intake of red meat, lots of fresh produce,
    rarely ate fast food, made a lot of meals at home, ate a wide variety
    of foods, used lots of olive oil and followed a mostly Mediterranean
    diet. Some would say I eat more sugar than is good for me - chocolate
    etc. Also alcohol consumption was moderate to abstemious. So no risk
    factors in my diet particularly, and haven't needed to change much.

    No, my biggest risk factors were having my children late and being a
    middle class female in the Bay area.

    Leila
     
  10. elaine

    elaine Guest

    "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Re: surgeon singing - she's standing there while the anesthesiologist
    > has me sit up so she can stick a needle in my back. The surgeon puts
    > her hands on my head and rubs my hair and sings while I'm getting this
    > procedure. Then they put me down on my back again and say bye-bye
    > Leila. That's all I remember until I woke up again 10 hours later.
    > Whoever complained about the surgeon singing just didn't get the
    > picture. She would have been just standing by at that moment, she chose
    > to do this incredibly warm comforting thing while I was getting stabbed
    > in the back.
    >
    > Leila


    What do you mean stabbed in the back? Is this just a term for your surgery?
     
  11. Arri London

    Arri London Guest

    Hahabogus wrote:
    >
    > "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    > > and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    > > under)
    > >
    > > Leila
    > >

    >
    > That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    > back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    > whole mind.
    >
    >


    High flyers *can* concentrate on something such as surgery with their
    whole minds while doing something relatively mindless such as singing a
    favourite aria.
    It really is preferable to have a calm relaxed surgeon than one possibly
    endlessly (and neurotically) going over details before surgery.
     
  12. Goomba38

    Goomba38 Guest

    elaine wrote:

    > "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Re: surgeon singing - she's standing there while the anesthesiologist
    >>has me sit up so she can stick a needle in my back. The surgeon puts
    >>her hands on my head and rubs my hair and sings while I'm getting this
    >>procedure. Then they put me down on my back again and say bye-bye
    >>Leila. That's all I remember until I woke up again 10 hours later.
    >>Whoever complained about the surgeon singing just didn't get the
    >>picture. She would have been just standing by at that moment, she chose
    >>to do this incredibly warm comforting thing while I was getting stabbed
    >>in the back.
    >>
    >>Leila

    >
    >
    > What do you mean stabbed in the back? Is this just a term for your surgery?


    Probably placing an epidural cath used for pain
    management. Like a pregnant woman getting a
    epidural for the delivery.
    Goomba
     
  13. Puester

    Puester Guest

    Hahabogus wrote:
    > "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    >>and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    >>under)
    >>
    >>Leila
    >>

    >
    >
    > That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    > back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    > whole mind.
    >



    Have you ever been near a working O.R.? Many of them have heavy metal
    or the surgeon's choice of music blasting at high volume "to relax the
    surgeon" or jokes of questionable taste being swapped. Too many TV
    medical dramas give the unrealistic picture of a silent, respectful
    atmosphere. 'Taint so.

    gloria p
     
  14. One time on Usenet, "Leila" <[email protected]> said:

    > On the topic of what to eat, they generally said eat a wide variety of
    > foods. But both of them made statements that went approximately like
    > this "since eating large amounts of animal fats may increase your risk
    > for cancer, you should eat a low fat diet and avoid red meat." I find
    > this a large jump in logic. Why can't you eat red meat in small
    > quantities? And olive oil is good for breast cancer.


    <snip>

    Doctors are not nutritionists (this subject comes up in alt.
    support.diet quite often), and most are still clinging to the
    old American Heart Association's guidelines that say all fat
    is bad. At least that's my take on it...


    --
    J.J. in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
    "I rule you!" - Travis of the Cosmos, ATHF
     
  15. On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:24:11 GMT, "Peter Aitken"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Goomba38" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Hahabogus wrote:
    >>> "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>> news:[email protected]:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    >>>>and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    >>>>under)
    >>>>
    >>>>Leila
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> That would scare the Hell outa me. Seems unprofessional and too laid
    >>> back. I would prefer her to be concentrating on the operation with her
    >>> whole mind.

    >>
    >> You might not want to hear that just about all surgeons have their CD
    >> collections in the OR. They LOVE to listen to hard rock to classic music.
    >> Some quite LOUD! lol
    >> On the other side of this- I can concentrate better on a lecture or church
    >> sermon if my hands are occupied (such as with hand sewing or embroidery).
    >> I don't know why but just sitting there staring at the lecturer allows my
    >> mind to wander whereas concentrating on the sewing allows me to "hear"
    >> better.
    >> Goomba
    >>

    >
    >When you are really good at something - as you hope your surgeon is - you do
    >not need your whole mind to do the best job. In fact you will likely do a
    >worse job if you pay strict and complete attention. "Relaxed attentiveness"
    >is a phrase often used to describe the best state to perform a difficult
    >task that you know well.


    What's more, letting a familiar tune run through your head, or
    something like that, is likely to aid concentration in the part of
    your mind that needs to be focused on a complex task.

    See the title story in Oliver Sacks, "The Man Who Mistook His Wife For
    a Hat", for a particularly striking example of this.

    --
    Chris Green
     
  16. kalanamak

    kalanamak Guest

    Arri London wrote:
    >
    > It really is preferable to have a calm relaxed surgeon than one possibly
    > endlessly (and neurotically) going over details before surgery.


    Everyone does things differently. I go over things neurotically in the
    privacy of my office, but tend to be light with patients (unless they
    need heavy), and I too have sung to patients. Today I old a
    not-so-bright patient with a burn that it was healing so well, if there
    was a calendar for wounds, she'd be Miss January 2005, and she grinned
    and grinned.
    I also remarked to the nurse that I bet there'd be a market for such a
    calendar.
    blacksalt
     
  17. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    "Leila" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Please skip this if you're sick of the cancer topic. But some of you
    > might care to know.
    >
    > I looked up a couple of reputable books on breast cancer after my
    > diagnosis, one written by a top doctor at UCLA, one more "popular" and
    > written by a survivor.
    >
    > On the topic of what to eat, they generally said eat a wide variety of
    > foods. But both of them made statements that went approximately like
    > this "since eating large amounts of animal fats may increase your risk
    > for cancer, you should eat a low fat diet and avoid red meat." I find
    > this a large jump in logic. Why can't you eat red meat in small
    > quantities? And olive oil is good for breast cancer.
    >
    > On the topic of wine, a similar statement was made "Since drinking 6-9
    > glasses of wine per week is a risk factor for breast cancer, you should
    > only drink a glass of wine at Thanksgiving or New Year's holidays."
    >
    > Re: the wine - If 6-9 glasses a week is risky, where is the data that
    > two glasses a year is the only safe choice?
    >
    > I asked my surgeon, the head of the breast center at UC San Francisco,
    > one of the top centers in the country. She said that 3 to 5 glasses of
    > wine a week would put me below the area of risk. She also said that you
    > eat what's good for you, lots of vegetables and fruit, a wide variety
    > of foods, and enjoy your life.
    >
    > Since I don't normally drink 5 glasses of wine average per month, I am
    > going to continue as I was pre-cancer. No wine when I've been using
    > pain or anti-nausea meds (or when I'm nauseated, duh). Have a glass or
    > two with a meal when the mood strikes, which is usually less than once
    > a week, sometimes more like once a month. And as the surgeon said, if I
    > drink three glasses during the course of a long and delicious meal, I
    > know to lay off for the rest of the week.
    >
    > Moderation in all things. I like this surgeon. (She dresses great, too,
    > and sings Puccini to her patients while the anesthesiologist puts us
    > under)
    >
    > Leila


    I've been looking in my computer for a file I saved about a year or so ago
    and I certainly wish I could find it, but I can't. Perhaps someone else
    might recognize what I am speaking of and post the url.
    It is a list of countries along with columns for women, men,
    wine/beer/alcohol and each country's medical recommendation in ounces and
    drinks per day/week for a healthful amount of like-beverage. From that
    large list, there was some variation in recommended drinks per week/per day,
    but not a lot. From that composite I was able to make a decision for
    myself, not based upon what one doctor in my country would recommend, even
    though he/she may be repeating the U.S. guidelines.
    If one has a lot of wine glasses of varying size, one of the things I did
    for a number of months was to measure in ounces the wine that I was
    drinking, thus training my eye to recognize, if I decided to have another
    glass of wine, just how much I was drinking. Some wine glass sizes are
    deceiving; we should all know that from ordering wine by the glass in
    restaurants.

    Another thing one can do regarding deciding what to eat is to take a good
    look at the breast cancer rates in other countries and see what they are
    eating. Just in the news today is olive oil included in the Mediterranean
    diet, and as I understand it, tofu is not a bad thing to include in some way
    in your diet - but I would not force myself to eat it if I had an aversion
    to it.

    Cancer is such a scarey thing and when we get it, we wonder if perhaps we
    have been eating unwisely and try to change our habits. It is one thing we
    can try to change for ourselves that we know about. Luckily, the subject of
    food is an interesting one.

    Dee
     
  18. Leila

    Leila Guest

    That's it. While the anesthesiologist was doing this, the surgeon was
    rubbing my head and singing puccini. Very comforting. But don't worry,
    they numb the site first before they get you. And I'd agreed to pop an
    Ativan a while before that so I was really not worried about anything.
    Leila
     
  19. Leila

    Leila Guest

    Yeah, the nurse standing by as I quizzed the doc re: wine etc.
    suggested I meet with the staff nutritionist. UC San Francisco Breast
    Center has everything. They're swamped, but they are full service. I
    didn't follow up on how to get to see the nutritionist, however...
    Leila
     
  20. Arri London

    Arri London Guest

    Leila wrote:
    >
    > Yeah, the nurse standing by as I quizzed the doc re: wine etc.
    > suggested I meet with the staff nutritionist. UC San Francisco Breast
    > Center has everything. They're swamped, but they are full service. I
    > didn't follow up on how to get to see the nutritionist, however...
    > Leila


    Let's put it this way: my mother was the first woman in her family, as
    far as is known, to get breast cancer. Most of her female forebearers
    lived to be at least 90; her mother lived to be 96 without cancer of any
    sort. They lived in several different countries, ate widely varying
    diets, consumed the amount of alcohol culturally appropriate etc.

    Her major risk factor probably was the oestrogens she took for several
    years a while back to help with devastating effects of menopause.

    So relax and eat and drink what you like in *moderation*.
     
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