Winter Duatholon-strength and FTP

[jsirabella]

Yes no one should get hurt but as we all seem to break the first most important rule either directly or indirectly not sure if we can prevent it. But definitely no lifting if your hamstring is screwed up.

With such a happy face I would be heartless to make you do the lift anyway. But on a good note been keeping up a healthy diet of 10 minute at LT 4 X 10 at 220 and 2 X 5 at 240 lately. They are tough as hell and still no where near my old numbers but I am happy as I believe my body is recovering but a bit too slow for my liking.

I seem to be getting much better numbers outdoors and today based upon my best effort in May raised my FTP to a whopping ... 220 that is a bit higher than my best hour since the injury of 210 but 20-30 watts lower than my best 20 minute effort outdoors.

One thing that has happened I got this fix gear bike last year which got no use really and this year having a lot of fun with it for the commute back and forth to the office. It is helping me to get comfortable with a more tuck position.

Regards,


-js

Here is a pic of me deadlifting da Horse with a bent arms!

 

[frost]

Here is a pic of me deadlifting da Horse with a bent arms!

Däng Meek, how tall are you? What you weight (I am sure you have mentioned somewhere in this thread but it is already so long I am too lazy to search)?
You sure look like you could lift a horse (and I am not talking about your Precios bike here) with one hand! What kind of numbers you put out for 5 to 60 sec?

 

[Felt_Rider]

I had a close call last Monday

Just as a few cross-fit types on here have already experienced full blown strains (muscle tears) last Monday I had a very minor strain in my upper right quadricep while doing squats. I have experienced at least 6 or more severe strains in the past years while training with weights so I am familiar with them and how to recover.

I felt it "pop" while warming up. It was probably already weakened and just needed something to trigger it. I figured it was pretty minor and finished out my leg training for the day, trained either on the bike or spin bike all week, did an 80 mile ride on Saturday and a 40 mile ride yesterday.

Last night I noticed bruising in my calf, which was the blood from the strain collecting at that point from the strain in the upper quadricep. Then is when I knew that I really did strain it. It is funny how the blood will collect in a lower area due to gravity, but if the strain is severe enough you will have bruising at the location and can watch it drift down over a few weeks.

This time around I was very fortunate that the strain was very minor. I trained legs this morning with lighter weight, more repetitions and more volume just as a precaution.

Despite this my training is starting to ramp up again as I had been in sort of a slump the past couple months. I had a rough ride on Saturday and struggled in the 80 miles trying to keep up with the group, but yesterday I could feel my legs and conditioning start to come back. Things are starting to get better again.

 

[frost]

I had a close call last Monday.....

CREEPS!! I haven't really been doing any real gym work for over 2 years but now I've been thinking about doing an intense 5-6 week gym cycle somewhere late summer to see if it had any affect to the sprint but guys, reading this thread and I am really getting scared!
Is it that getting older (well not really seriously old but not continuing being that young and unexperienced anymore

) and the body doesn't take the gym abuse very well anymore?

Take it easy Felt!

 

[jsirabella]

I had a close call last Monday

I felt it "pop" while warming up. It was probably already weakened and just needed something to trigger it. I figured it was pretty minor and finished out my leg training for the day, trained either on the bike or spin bike all week, did an 80 mile ride on Saturday and a 40 mile ride yesterday.

This time around I was very fortunate that the strain was very minor. I trained legs this morning with lighter weight, more repetitions and more volume just as a precaution.

Despite this my training is starting to ramp up again as I had been in sort of a slump the past couple months. I had a rough ride on Saturday and struggled in the 80 miles trying to keep up with the group, but yesterday I could feel my legs and conditioning start to come back. Things are starting to get better again.

Hey Felt,

Glad you are feeling better and the strain was not more severe. My story has not been as good.

Last week it was raining on Wed morning so I thought I may as well go to the gym and stretch.

I was really starting to feel the numbers on the bike and the strength coming back. I still had not done weights since March and a guy I know from the gym told me I was loosing my size. I guess it got stuck in my head and decided to try weights really light.

Well I do my bench in the cage with 5x5 at 135lbs with no real problem. I than go into deadlifts. First set fine, second set fine, third set, third rep as I finished the rep my IT bands than all over my legs felt a pain like never before. I was able to stretch and walk for 15 minutes but barely was able to get out of the gym and take my daughter to school.

I could not go to work and iced and heated all day and than the next day took off and went to the doc. He tested my legs and he said they are totally in spasm. They did feel a bit better but basically I went back to about 3 mos ago. All that time was lost...Well anyway the only good that came out of it was I went to a different doc in the place who actually lifts weights and is quite big.

He was the only doc so far who understood what I was talking about the pains in my rib cage and the pirformis muscle and not being able to sit in the saddle. I knew he understood when he was finishing my sentences. He explained I had a traction in my musle that should go away in anywhere from 6 week to 9 mos depending on the amount of pull. He than said that the worse thing the other doc did was to tell you to do nothing for 6 weeks as your body went into shut down and the problems that were being covered by the weights all came out.

I have officially learned my lesson. He promises me that I will be able to lift weights again. Not sure if I care honestly. Mentally I am actually better able to deal with it as the last time I was just not prepared. 2009 has been a doozy of a year for me and one I will surely never forget.

Probably the most unfortunate part is that during the 4th of July week I was going back to Santa Barbara and was going also to Las Vegas. It could have been great as I could have really enjoyed some cycling but it seems everything to me happens in doubles...so it will be another trip of aleeve and stretching with some light trainer cycling at 30 minute romps.

Regards,


-js

And yes I finally got my shot in my left side as he wants me to stretch and cycle and no way I could cycle without the shot.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Js, I guess we are getting to be the old warriors in the gym.

Sorry to hear about your latest IT band, but I am glad to hear that you have found a doctor that trains with weights.

My chiropractor is a former competitive powerlifter and still trains. Because of that he has been extremely helpful to me for times of physical therapy advice and help getting through some injuries, but at the same time not give up on lifting. It bums me out that I am no longer squatting or benching like in the prime days, but I have made my adjustments and continue to lift.

The way I look at this is to fight the good fight because if we don't train the body will degrade at even a faster rate. Most of the guys at our age that are sedentary have a lot more problems with overall healthcare.

Keep fighting the good fight and I know you will.

 

[jsirabella]

The way I look at this is to fight the good fight because if we don't train the body will degrade at even a faster rate. Most of the guys at our age that are sedentary have a lot more problems with overall healthcare.

Keep fighting the good fight and I know you will.

Honestly at this point it is really not the physical any longer as much as the mental. It may be hard to look at the weights and cycling the same again. A wall has been built and it will take time to come down. We do not get paid to this so when we have injuries that interrupt our personal life it makes it that much tougher. I am sure the next time I look at a bar to lift there will be a lot more apprehension approaching to the bar which mean more likely repeat injury.

In addition it is really hard for me to just go to the gym to do the same old thing over and over again. It would be like getting on the bike to simply do the same 150 watts over and over again.

2009 is a total rebuild year for me. Definitely a life style changer...

Regards,


-js

 

[Felt_Rider]

Honestly at this point it is really not the physical any longer as much as the mental. It may be hard to look at the weights and cycling the same again. A wall has been built and it will take time to come down. We do not get paid to this so when we have injuries that interrupt our personal life it makes it that much tougher. I am sure the next time I look at a bar to lift there will be a lot more apprehension approaching to the bar which mean more likely repeat injury.

In addition it is really hard for me to just go to the gym to do the same old thing over and over again. It would be like getting on the bike to simply do the same 150 watts over and over again.

2009 is a total rebuild year for me. Definitely a life style changer...

Regards,


-js

We are in this together for a down year in performance

I am already looking forward to 2010 and hoping for better news.
My area of business is impacted and employers are looking for those who appear to be more dedicated. You know what that means?

Means I best appear more dedicated and less ready to bolt out of here at 5 pm to go train. I had more training time in January than I do now and I feel the result of it when I ride with my group.

I have a friend that has been unemployed for a few months and his biking is going great, but I bet he would much rather be employed right now.

Maybe different reasons for a down 2009, but we can hope 2010 will be better

 

[jsirabella]

We are in this together for a down year in performance

Maybe different reasons for a down 2009, but we can hope 2010 will be better

Bro, I can not wait for this year to end....I am looking forward to 2009 to be a distant memory...Amen.

-js

 

[kopride]

Felt and JS,

Yes, old age is catching up with us a bit. 43 just passed for me last week. But I must admit that I am seeing real progress from body weight exercises and kettle bells. My 49 year old riding buddy (and long time law school lifting buddy) went into the gym last week and strained his back doing heavy deadlifts as well, so i am seriously questioning whether the benefit from squats/deadlifts outweigh the risk of injury. The problem is that with cycling, you never really give your muscles the rest they need to recover from these intense lifts, and conversly, lifting affects cycling recovery.

Here is my latest "lifting routine," 60 seconds planche progression. 60 second front lever progression, 60 seconds l-sit progression, 60 second rear lever; then ladders of kettlebell snatches and presses, and a combination of push pull bodyweight sets (Eg 3-5 sets of weighted chins/3-5 sets of weighted dips) followed by handstand pushups and wall supported stands, and evil wheel roll outs for abs. Takes me less than 40 minutes, I can do it all at home. So far, no injury. As an aside, I look better than ever, and there is a lot of real core work in that simple routine. I mix in pistols, COC grippers, and one handed resistance exercises as well just for variety, but the pistols really do blow out my legs for any meaningful cycling, so I do them sparingly.

My FTP is still above 280 but I haven't done a real one hour TT yet.

The problem with weights is that I just can't get past the macho stuff in the gym. If I am benching, I want to see if I can still lift what I could in law school. If it is deadlift or squat, I need to see some real weight on the bar. SO, I hurt myself and go backwards.

In contrast, the bodyweight stuff is just very hard, but it doesn't seem to be causing me any real injury. The only exception is elbow or wrist pain from kettlebells, which I have eliminated by doing them in really good form. And there is some wrist pain from static holds, but a pair of cheap pushup stands really helped that pain since it takes the strain off bending the hands back.

Good luck. And it does stink getting old. The next duathalon will be FTP and chin ups so you've been warned.

 

[jsirabella]

First off, Happy Birthday...

Like I was telling Felt, 2009 has been a real eye opener for me and I have to begin to agree with you that lifting heavy once you get past 40 is not good for long term health/fitness. When I had a trainer, he would tell me once you get past 40 that you should focus on stretching and cardio for your long term health and start to slow down on the weight lifting.

I have to admit that this strain last week was all my fault. Not thinking my ego got the best of me when the guy said I was loosing my size so thought start it up a bit. I am paying for it now with 2 mos of lost PT. I am pretty much back to March again. I could have salvaged a descent Summer with some rides and probably been able to get back to old form by end of Summer. I know what you mean by looking at a bar and if does not have a couple plates on each side it seems why bother. If you are not pushing yourself I find it gets a bit boring. I guess that will have to change in 2010.

Right now weight lifting will not be in the vocabulary again till Winter, if any. I honestly am so de-trained at weight lifting right now that I will be starting all over again as I am right now trying to get back on the bike.

It looks like my future will hold lots of stretching, push ups, pull ups, pistols, jump squats and better eating. Also no longer of getting back on the bike even though I know I am a bit sore. The one thing this taught me was that my back was not in as good a shape as I thought. The doc explained your weight lifting was hiding some issues and once you shut down they all came out. Just cause you can lift a house does not mean you are in good shape...one guy I worked out with warned me. He said it is when you stop for more than a few days will you really start to know how sore and beat up you are.

One of the benefits of the weight lifting/cycling was diner food...I love diner food for lunch but I feel pretty soon that will be something I have to put into check. Since my accident my weight is pretty much the same 178 but when I look at the bf scale I went from 17% to now it sometimes reads 22% as a high.

Life is going to have to start to change...get the green tea...lol

Regards,


-js

Felt and JS,

Yes, old age is catching up with us a bit. 43 just passed for me last week. But I must admit that I am seeing real progress from body weight exercises and kettle bells. My 49 year old riding buddy (and long time law school lifting buddy) went into the gym last week and strained his back doing heavy deadlifts as well, so i am seriously questioning whether the benefit from squats/deadlifts outweigh the risk of injury. The problem is that with cycling, you never really give your muscles the rest they need to recover from these intense lifts, and conversly, lifting affects cycling recovery.

Here is my latest "lifting routine," 60 seconds planche progression. 60 second front lever progression, 60 seconds l-sit progression, 60 second rear lever; then ladders of kettlebell snatches and presses, and a combination of push pull bodyweight sets (Eg 3-5 sets of weighted chins/3-5 sets of weighted dips) followed by handstand pushups and wall supported stands, and evil wheel roll outs for abs. Takes me less than 40 minutes, I can do it all at home. So far, no injury. As an aside, I look better than ever, and there is a lot of real core work in that simple routine. I mix in pistols, COC grippers, and one handed resistance exercises as well just for variety, but the pistols really do blow out my legs for any meaningful cycling, so I do them sparingly.

My FTP is still above 280 but I haven't done a real one hour TT yet.

The problem with weights is that I just can't get past the macho stuff in the gym. If I am benching, I want to see if I can still lift what I could in law school. If it is deadlift or squat, I need to see some real weight on the bar. SO, I hurt myself and go backwards.

In contrast, the bodyweight stuff is just very hard, but it doesn't seem to be causing me any real injury. The only exception is elbow or wrist pain from kettlebells, which I have eliminated by doing them in really good form. And there is some wrist pain from static holds, but a pair of cheap pushup stands really helped that pain since it takes the strain off bending the hands back.

Good luck. And it does stink getting old. The next duathalon will be FTP and chin ups so you've been warned.

 

[dhk2]

Good conversation js and kopride. I also enjoy weight training, but now that the cycling season is in full swing have cut back to 1x15, once a week. IMO, it's counterproductive to waste energy and risk injury training fast-twitch strength when cycling is all about aerobic power capacity. But +1 for the core strength and flexibility routine being valuable for all cyclists. That's the part I keep up year round too.

Our club had a good presentation from a Pilates instructor at the meeting last night. She selected a set of good core strength and flexibility exercises, and explained how each one "countered" the stresses induced by riding. No weights needed, just a mat.

js, agree diet is all-important. I'm going to NM and Colorado next month for some serious climbing, so getting rid of excess mass is now a priority. Started at 196 lbs in May, now 189 with 9 more to go. My best cycling weight is around 172-175, but I let it creep up over the last 6 years of retirement. As many of us "mature riders" know, calorie restriction is essential; riding 5000 miles a year isn't sufficient to stay lean.

kopride, I hate to tell you, but 43 isn't old. Add 15-20 years, then let me know what aging is like

 

[kopride]

First off, Happy Birthday...


One of the benefits of the weight lifting/cycling was diner food...I love diner food for lunch but I feel pretty soon that will be something I have to put into check. Since my accident my weight is pretty much the same 178 but when I look at the bf scale I went from 17% to now it sometimes reads 22% as a high.

Life is going to have to start to change...get the green tea...lol

Regards,


-js

Happy 43 b-day is an oxymoron.

Ahh. diner food. Particularly NYC or No. New Jersey's version of diners with massive 3000 calorie portions in one fantastic meal laden with lots of good old fashioned animal fat. You have to get out to PA dutch country with scrapple and Hungry Man breakfasts to get anywhere near them.

I have adopted my wife's diet schedule of spartan work week meals: big breakfast of cereal, packing my lunch, and sensible home cooked meal; alternated with weekend spluges, for several years. It has been the most effective diet plan yet. The longer weekend rides tend to compensate for the increased weekend calories, and I just don't deal with too many food choices during the work week.

But I am finding as a side effect that I am just not enjoying the big weekend junk food splurges that I used to. After a big sunday breakfast, I am looking forward to a more disciplined diet and not having that post meal bloat. Lately, we have made sunday night more of a smaller mid week meal. And I was feeling the fri night nachos my entire saturday ride.

There is a tremendous amount of conditioning that comes along with food. Start a routine of eating a tiny piece of chocolate after every meal, and you will soon start craving chocolate. Hit a diner every day, and you will crave the smell, and that big calorie buster. But you can reverse condition as well. Start to stretch days of healthy eating together, and the splurge weekend days will start to be an unwelcome break from the conditioning. A splurge becomes a really well cooked meal at a great resturant rather than a gut buster at a greasy spoon. And start to add the costs of all those diner meals together and you realize you are adding a few hundred bucks a month in food costs when compared to a pound or so of great cold cuts and good bread that will make lunches for the week. So it helps your health and wallet.

 

[kopride]

Our club had a good presentation from a Pilates instructor at the meeting last night. She selected a set of good core strength and flexibility exercises, and explained how each one "countered" the stresses induced by riding. No weights needed, just a mat.

js, agree diet is all-important. I'm going to NM and Colorado next month for some serious climbing, so getting rid of excess mass is now a priority. Started at 196 lbs in May, now 189 with 9 more to go. My best cycling weight is around 172-175, but I let it creep up over the last 6 years of retirement. As many of us "mature riders" know, calorie restriction is essential; riding 5000 miles a year isn't sufficient to stay lean.

kopride, I hate to tell you, but 43 isn't old. Add 15-20 years, then let me know what aging is like

Age is relative. Every once in a while I jump in with the local college cycling club and feel really old; then I ride with the geezers and feel like a kid. But, take away obesity, diabetes, and smoking, and it is amazing how much younger I am in real terms than the average 200 plus pound american middle aged male. Why I don't even need viagra. As I said to JS, the ultimate winner of this race are the guys still out there and riding into their 70s and beyond.

Bodyweight training is as close to the fountain of youth I have ever discovered. And Yoga and Pilates are simply variations of the same principle. You look at some of these folks in their 60s doing this type of exercise regularly and they are really amazing and fit. It will really help you get that weight down and you will feel so much better on the bike. But yes, at the end of the day, you can't hide from what you eat. As a former wrestler, I still always want to be in a position where I can make weight at 167 pounds.

 

[jsirabella]

As I said to JS, the ultimate winner of this race are the guys still out there and riding into their 70s and beyond.

Bodyweight training is as close to the fountain of youth I have ever discovered. And Yoga and Pilates are simply variations of the same principle.

Kind of funny I always had a bigger problem in my younger days of putting on the pounds and size but it looks like I have to agree with you all here. I guess it is time for a life style change...I will be switching my diet a bit, no more mozz sticks and burgers in my future and focusing more on body weight exercises once I get over my latest set back. I was never terrible but lets get the weight down into the low 170s to start and the body fat closer to ~15%. Little things to start, no more milk in the tea, even slow down on the diet cokes and smaller portions.

Get those pink dumbbells ready and lets see should I go with a baby blue, light green or dark pink yoga mat. Wow the choices are endless...Move over girlfriends I am ready for my class today...on three lets work that core.

May as well just cut them off while I am at it too....

-js

 

[frost]

I had to dig this thread up even it is not winter here yet. I went to gym today first time for... I don't know how long time. Stifflegged deathlift 5x130Kg after first doing 5x5 jump squats (yes, I am going to be a track cyclist when I grow up ) and 5x5 of lunges. 5x130kg (286lbs) came up very easy but I had the descriptions of torn muscles and pain in this thread at the back of my head so just once I think i was wise and left it there.

I haven't really been training for about month now, except sprints and group rides which are more social than training so I think my FTP has dropped to 340w level, but clearly still over 300 so the challenge is now pictorial evidence shy of completion .

 

[Felt_Rider]

I had to dig this thread up even it is not winter here yet. I went to gym today first time for... I don't know how long time.

Nice that you dug up this old thread.

I have things in the works and had a fairly good leg day this morning.

 

[Felt_Rider]

As noted from a lifter who prentends to be a cyclist

Monday - Leg Day

Legs were still sore from the group ride on Saturday even though I tried to control my effort as noted on my blog. Being the ride leader of sorts I was better able to control my effort and though I had intentions of keeping around 0.7 IF I went a bit above that and felt it later that day and Sunday. Sunday I typically go out for a 2 hour SST type of ride, but only did about 30 minutes of active recovery. (A bit of humor in that group ride when one of the strongest of the group came to me after the ride and asked if we were always going to ride at that intensity. I quickly reminded him that he did not have to chase the front group that split from us. I watched my power meter and controlled my pace the best I could and had half of the group stay with me, but still went a bit above my intentions.)

Monday (Light Week)

Spin Bike - 30 minutes to warm up the legs and knees with 1 minute intervals of standing and seated with resistance that would emulate a 6% climb. Because it was unmonitored I would guess (RPE) 0.7 IF.

Meek, I am listening but I will build on the single leg press so my weight used will be low for a while.

1. Single leg press (45 lbs x 10) warm up
2. Single leg press (90 lbs x 10) warm up
3. Single leg press (135 lbs x 10) warm up
4. Leg press (180 lbs x 10) warm up
5. Leg press (270 lbs x 10) superset with Squats 135 x 10 pause at the bottom
6. Leg press (360 lbs x 10) superset with Squats 135 x 10 pause at the bottom
7. Leg press (360 lbs x 10) superset with Squats 135 x 10 pause at the bottom
8. Leg press (360 lbs x 10) superset with Squats 135 x 10 pause at the bottom
9. sissy squats
10. sissy squats
11. Leg extensions (70 lbs x 10)
12. Leg extensions (70 lbs x 10)
13. Leg extensions (70 lbs x 10)

out of time and had to cut my training short but probably good enough for my "light week."

Like Frost mentioned on his thread it will be interesting if I can muster up enough for my intervals tomorrow on the trainer.

 

[Enriss]

That is a LOT of leg-work, and this is coming from a guy who routinely squats and deadlifts on the same day three times a week. I'm a little confused why you feel the need to work out your quads that many different ways, but I guess each motion helps the muscle grow in its own unique way, so why not. I hope you're at least going below parallel on the squats, or it sounds like you might be developing a strength imbalance around your knee.

 

[Felt_Rider]

That is a LOT of leg-work, and this is coming from a guy who routinely squats and deadlifts on the same day three times a week. I'm a little confused why you feel the need to work out your quads that many different ways, but I guess each motion helps the muscle grow in its own unique way, so why not. I hope you're at least going below parallel on the squats, or it sounds like you might be developing a strength imbalance around your knee.

Actually it is not much work at all compared to the days when I competed. That is about half of the volume and not near the amount of weight that I used when I was younger and only concentrated on lifting.

On the second highlighted point it is what works for me.

On the third highlighted point, yes I always use full range of motion. I never use nor do I believe in partial range of motion for any bodypart. Not saying there is not a purpose for it for others, but it does not belong in my training and it does not fit my philosophy of training as written here on my blog.

Here is a picture of my legs in 1993 when I qualified to compete in the NPC National level competitions. Even though that picture is many years ago, I think I have pretty good overall development in my legs even today as a non competitor. Until about 2004 when I only trained with weights I did over 30 sets for legs and trained with national, pro level bodybuilders and world class powerlifters. I am not a guru, but I think I have an understanding of what it takes and you are right not everyone has to train like me to get results, but that is what I do.