Winter walking gear & clothing



D

Darren G

Guest
Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb winter skills
course) what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in
the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):

- ski goggles (Aldi!)
- sunglasses
- ice axe
- crampons
- boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
- fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)

And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.
Darren
--
Darren
mail to darren not ng
 
"Darren G" <[email protected]> wrote

......what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in
> the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):
>
> - ski goggles (Aldi!)
> - sunglasses


Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

> - ice axe
> - crampons
> - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)


Yup...I'd definately take some boots! 4 season will be expensive. Are
you living/going to live in Scotland? Unless you're going to be out
there a lot in winter is it worth shelling out that amount of money?
Perhaps buy your boots and crampons at the same time from a decent
shop, taking their advice. I've got by with three season for walking.
Hell, I went up Middle Teton in trainers and crampons (not
recommended).

> - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!


Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
sweet tea.

>
> What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
> trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)


I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
painfully cold in inadequate gloves.
>
> And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.


....and to you. Hope you find some decent snow.

Graham
 
"Darren G" <[email protected]> wrote

......what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in
> the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):
>
> - ski goggles (Aldi!)
> - sunglasses


Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

> - ice axe
> - crampons
> - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)


Yup...I'd definately take some boots! 4 season will be expensive. Are
you living/going to live in Scotland? Unless you're going to be out
there a lot in winter is it worth shelling out that amount of money?
Perhaps buy your boots and crampons at the same time from a decent
shop, taking their advice. I've got by with three season for walking.
Hell, I went up Middle Teton in trainers and crampons (not
recommended).

> - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!


Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
sweet tea.

>
> What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
> trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)


I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
painfully cold in inadequate gloves.
>
> And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.


....and to you. Hope you find some decent snow.

Graham
 
spongebob wrote:

> Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
> bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.


That's what I thought, until I spent a day in heavy windblown snow and
spindrift and couldn't see anything much for large chunks of the day.
Snow gets back behind the lenses, even with proper side protectors,
faster than it can be cleared. Though sunglasses are generally more
comfortable and accordingly preferable when they're enough, if you go
past their limits you really get to see the difference. I found out the
hard way, I'd suggest learning from my bad experience rather than your own!

> Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
> sweet tea.


More useful on the hill, granted. For an alcoholic morale boost a quick
snifter of spirit from a hip flask can be nice, but in the grander
scheme of it alcohol actually cools you down, so like chocolate and its
attendant sugar rush with following insulin over-compensation it's more
about morale than anything else. On the subject of chocolate, below
freezing it gets rather tough and loses some of its appeal (if you can
imagine such a thing!). Marzipan, OTOH, remains malleable and very
nice. Compromise with a Ritter Sport marzipan bar, where not being
solid chocolate you can still bite through it and it's good German plain
chocolate with Actual Cocoa Mass in tangible quantities, so tastes much
better than Cadbury's etc. Or take chocolate in liquid form in a flask.
Green and Blacks and Thorntons both v. good.

> I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
> away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
> gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
> painfully cold in inadequate gloves.


I usually take gloves, backup gloves and emergency backup super mitts.
For winter a Serious Pair should be available in the bag, either
dachsdein mitts or double layer fleece/pile plus shell mitts. Mitts are
warmer than gloves, thick gloves give damn all dexterity anyway IME so I
don't see why to use them rather than mitts (mitts are cheaper too).
They should have a wrist loop so you don't drop them, don't bother with
clips that attach to a shell jacket, they're no use at all if you want
to take your shell jacket off (which is entirely possible, going up a
steep snow climb in the sun is hot work, but the axe head draws a lot of
heat from your hands without serious mitts/gloves). If they don't have
a wrist loop, sew one on: it's not hard.
A lighter pair of gloves is often all you need but if/when they get
soaked through they can get cold, where a fresh backup light pair is
often better than moving for the Mitts Of Last Resort.

Similarly, I usually have more than one hat available. A balaclava is
very well worth it as it can be used in conjunction with other hats.
Mine is a Craghoppers one in Polartec 100 and the best I've come across
with a long enough neck to keep it covered and a face hole sized so I
can select between having it guard up to my nose, just my chin, or not
cover my face at all. And you can roll it up as a standard hat too.
Mountain caps are very good, even better with a balaclava to fill in the
gaps.

If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
the latter is greatly preferable!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Darren G wrote:
> Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb
> winter skills course) what would people recommend
> sticking in the car for a weekend in the snow. I think
> so far we've identified (in no order):
>
> - ski goggles (Aldi!)
> - sunglasses
> - ice axe
> - crampons
> - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
> - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!
>
> What else would people recommend, in particular clothing
> (eg. DWR trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers,
> ...)
>
> And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to
> all.
> Darren


How about one of those headbands that cover your ears. Makes you look daft
but really good if your working hard and too hot for a hat. Go with the
mitts, you can experiment with wearing fleece gloves with mitts on top so
that you can take off the mitts to do stuff and not still have some
protection.

--
Muzz
reply to uglyduck NOT spamfrog
 
"Peter Clinch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> spongebob wrote:
>
> > Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
> > bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

>
> That's what I thought, until I spent a day in heavy windblown snow and
> spindrift and couldn't see anything much for large chunks of the day.
> Snow gets back behind the lenses, even with proper side protectors,
> faster than it can be cleared. Though sunglasses are generally more
> comfortable and accordingly preferable when they're enough, if you go
> past their limits you really get to see the difference. I found out the
> hard way, I'd suggest learning from my bad experience rather than your

own!
>
> > Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
> > sweet tea.

>
> More useful on the hill, granted. For an alcoholic morale boost a quick
> snifter of spirit from a hip flask can be nice, but in the grander
> scheme of it alcohol actually cools you down, so like chocolate and its
> attendant sugar rush with following insulin over-compensation it's more
> about morale than anything else. On the subject of chocolate, below
> freezing it gets rather tough and loses some of its appeal (if you can
> imagine such a thing!). Marzipan, OTOH, remains malleable and very
> nice. Compromise with a Ritter Sport marzipan bar, where not being
> solid chocolate you can still bite through it and it's good German plain
> chocolate with Actual Cocoa Mass in tangible quantities, so tastes much
> better than Cadbury's etc. Or take chocolate in liquid form in a flask.
> Green and Blacks and Thorntons both v. good.
>
> > I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
> > away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
> > gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
> > painfully cold in inadequate gloves.

>
> I usually take gloves, backup gloves and emergency backup super mitts.
> For winter a Serious Pair should be available in the bag, either
> dachsdein mitts or double layer fleece/pile plus shell mitts. Mitts are
> warmer than gloves, thick gloves give damn all dexterity anyway IME so I
> don't see why to use them rather than mitts (mitts are cheaper too).
> They should have a wrist loop so you don't drop them,


I can never quite understand why mitts designed for the mountain enviroment
don't come with elasticated wrist loops as standard, if you lost your mitts
in full blown scottish mountain winter conditions (and it is very feasable
that they may just blow away while rumaging in your sack) you may die, as
over the top as that may seem loosing your mitts on a winters climb could
very well spell a death sentance!
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:53:21 -0000, Darren G <[email protected]>
wrote:

[...]
>- boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)


I took my Raichle's into the walking shop for crampons y/day. The
bloke there tried to break one in half, failed and then conceded that
he could fit a Grivel G10 to it. I'm no longer planning to hire boots
for the weekend of snow-filled fun and frolics :)

>- fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!


Mmmm!

>What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
>trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)


I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
to take them to Scotland.


Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:57:00 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
>highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
>the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
>the latter is greatly preferable!


I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
nowadays?)

Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
having used crampons or an ice axe before?

I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.

Judith
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:05:07 +0000, Judith
<[email protected]> wrote:

[...]
>I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
>normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.


I'd definitely go for the overtrousers, if I were you. I reckon Ron
Hills alone would probably be v. cold, particularly since it sounds as
though (i) we'll be sliding around in the snow, and (ii) we'll be out
there for quite a long time.


Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
"spamfrog" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Darren G wrote:
>> Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb
>> winter skills course) what would people recommend
>> sticking in the car for a weekend in the snow. I think
>> so far we've identified (in no order):
>>
>> - ski goggles (Aldi!)
>> - sunglasses
>> - ice axe
>> - crampons
>> - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
>> - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!
>>
>> What else would people recommend, in particular clothing
>> (eg. DWR trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers,
>> ...)
>>
>> And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to
>> all.
>> Darren

>
> How about one of those headbands that cover your ears. Makes you look daft
> but really good if your working hard and too hot for a hat. Go with the
> mitts, you can experiment with wearing fleece gloves with mitts on top so
> that you can take off the mitts to do stuff and not still have some
> protection.


Ear warmers are - as you say - very useful. However, I no longer take mine
as I carry a buff which has a multitude of uses.

To the list, I'd add:

- a torch (headtorch is best - the little Petzl models can be fastened round
the wrist etc to reduce glare in poor conditions).
- trekking poles - with winter baskets.
- an extra warm top (thin fleece etc) - if you sweat as much as I do when
climbing it's handy to have a dry base layer)
- lip salve
- sunscreen (yes - really. Apply to the upper eyelids as they get very burnt
in sunlit snow).
- if its very deep snow, a lightweight shovel can be handy

and, controversially perhaps, a GPS. (there - said it).
I've been on the full winter walking course at Glenmore, I've done the micro
navigation (exercised and real) and would suggest that everyone else do
likewise. However, when the chips are down, the GPS is quicker, more
accurate and less error-prone.

To all of this, I'd add a sleeping bag, wellies, shovel and spare flask(with
hot drink) to be kept in the car. I've only needed this once - when I got
stuck on a closed section of the Devils Elbow waiting on the gritter
arriving from Blairgowrie - but I was might glad of it all.

As for legwear, I've used various combinations over the years. Last years
favourite was Ronhills (Winter Escape DXB) with Paclite overtrousers when
necessary. Gaiters are a must.

Oh - and don't forget your camera. You'll blow the friends and family away
with a few good winter shots.


druidh
 
In message <[email protected]>, Judith
<[email protected]> writes
>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:57:00 +0000, Peter Clinch
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
>>highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
>>the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
>>the latter is greatly preferable!

>
>I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
>nowadays?)


It sounds impressive :).
>
>Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
>having used crampons or an ice axe before?


I'm not Pete but it's possible, depending on how clumsy or careful you
are. Wearing gaiters minimises the risk - you're not likely to catch
clothing above the knee. If you haven't got any gaiters a cheap basic
pair will do and are inexpensive to replace if you do tear them. Duct
tape is good for emergency repairs to gaiters and overtrousers.
>
>I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
>normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.


I'd only wear overtrousers if they are needed for rain or wind. They do
make good waterproof seats though.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:53:21 -0000, Darren G <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> [...]
> >- boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)

>
> I took my Raichle's into the walking shop for crampons y/day. The
> bloke there tried to break one in half, failed and then conceded that
> he could fit a Grivel G10 to it. I'm no longer planning to hire boots
> for the weekend of snow-filled fun and frolics :)
>

Which ones have you got? Mountain Guide GTX or Mountain Trail GTX?

I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
shop without buying though.
>
> I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
> y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
> totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
> to take them to Scotland.


I was looking at some the other day as they seem to have the balance
between warmth and coping with getting wet to make them ideal for the
snow, especially as I hate overtrousers.

--
Darren
mail to darren not ng
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:19:53 -0000, Darren G <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
>solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
>shop without buying though.
>>

What! You STOLE them?! .... oh, I see what you mean.

>> I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
>> y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
>> totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
>> to take them to Scotland.

>
>I was looking at some the other day as they seem to have the balance
>between warmth and coping with getting wet to make them ideal for the
>snow, especially as I hate overtrousers.


I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(

Judith
 
On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:15:25 +0000, Chris Townsend
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
>>nowadays?)

>
>It sounds impressive :).


They're like school gym knickers ..... but perhaps we should stop this
conversation right here.


>>Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
>>having used crampons or an ice axe before?

>
>I'm not Pete but it's possible, depending on how clumsy or careful you
>are. Wearing gaiters minimises the risk - you're not likely to catch
>clothing above the knee.


Good point. Even with my (terrible) sense of balance I think I can
avoid kicking my own thighs. Yes, I think that should be quite a
comfortable combination: Ron Hills (with or without longjohns) and
full length gaiters. I typically wear ankle gaiters but that's just
to keep brambles and gorse out of my socks - I'll endeavour to find my
knee-high gaiters.

> If you haven't got any gaiters a cheap basic
>pair will do and are inexpensive to replace if you do tear them. Duct
>tape is good for emergency repairs to gaiters and overtrousers.


I don't know where my gaiters are ..... but I do know where the gaffer
tape is! Thanks for the tip.

Judith
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:19:53 -0000, Darren G <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
> >solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
> >shop without buying though.
> >>

> What! You STOLE them?! .... oh, I see what you mean.


SHHHH! I bet they are wondering why they have an old pair of Merrells
knocking around :)

> I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
> differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(


That's my one concern. I will sweat at the sight of a hill, and don;t
think I could go for a paramo jacket, but my legs don't seem to be as
bad as the upper half, so I reckon the trousers might work. And
probably not any hotter than wearing overtrousers.

--
Darren
mail to darren not ng
 
I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]>
from Peewiglet contained the following:

>I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
>y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
>totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard).


They get wet? Not sure I understand this.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/
 
Judith <[email protected]> writes
>On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:15:25 +0000, Chris Townsend
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
>>>nowadays?)

>>
>>It sounds impressive :).

>
>They're like school gym knickers ..... but perhaps we should stop this
>conversation right here.
>

<Sigh>....
Just when it was getting interesting.
--
Gordon Harris
(Wearing his mindless Boxer shorts)
 
Judith <[email protected]> writes
>
>I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
>differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(
>

I can wear them for 'hanging around' all day at this time of year, and
they don't become as uncomfortable as jeans and long johns do when worn
indoors. They have full length zip vents backed up by press studs
for decency. :)
--
Gordon Harris
 
Geoff Berrow <[email protected]> writes
>I noticed that Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>from Peewiglet contained the following:
>
>>I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
>>y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
>>totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard).

>
>They get wet? Not sure I understand this.
>

Surface wet. The water beads on them. She should shake herself
like a dog before entering the tent. :)
--
Gordon Harris
 
Judith wrote:

> I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
> nowadays?)


A marketing term meaning "better". c.f. "Extreme", "Titanium" and the
letter 'X'... ;-)

> Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
> having used crampons or an ice axe before?


Finite, certainly. If you've got a pair of old overtrousers you can use
for axe braking then that's highly recommended as sliding downhills on
modern lightweight ones isn't really what they're built for. You won't
be in crampons for the braking (it's actually more dangerous to practice
slides in crampons than not practising!) but you may well destroy
anything remotely baggy around the ankle area with a crampon while
moving in them.

> I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
> normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.


Just Tracksters would get a bit chilly, but a close stretch fit will
minimise the chance of crampon damage and fleece tights are warmer than
Tracksters (another reason I like Schoeller Dryskin for winter legwear)
and associated tripping over. In either case, an old pair of tatty
overtrousers that can be made tattier without crying would be a good idea.
Another thing about overtrousers is they make sliding easier, so you can
practise braking on less precipitous slopes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/